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I don't consider crafting "playing" the market. I consider searching through the recipes and crafted to find a recipe with lots in stock and none crafted then making that your niche for a while and exploiting it playing the market. I consider flipping playing the market.|
Originally Posted by Polecat7
Wow. I mean seriously, just wow. That entirely litanty on making money never would have occurred to me, and I've got a lot of experience on CoX and other MMos. I can also state that sort of market playing not only doesn't really interest me (Frankly I think the market was a bad idea from the get go). Literally, I just sell all the salvage I have, and move on.... this sort of litany about how to make money is downright painful.
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But even so, just sell everything and you can make tons. Nethergoat has a "project mope" where he listed all drops on the market for 1 inf each. He crafted some drops if he could only needed to buy 1 or 2 salvage. He netted a little bit over 1.3 million per level averaged out once he hit 30. No playing the market nothing. Just list everything for 1 inf and go.
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| Now step back a moment. How many inexperienced players do you think will have that figured out? Seriously, if that is what it takes to play a stalker, I'll just re-roll. That is just.... words cannot describe it. I know my perpetually broke self can survive as a scrapper or brute.... |
The real trick that new players won't figure out is selling at a low price increases your earnings. I list all my salvage etc at less than 100. Compared to when I was listing for 248 to be just below the vendor price and be sure I wasn't "losing" anything, I sell way faster and make vastly more money. No new player will know this. The secret to nether goat's money on project mope is the sheer power of listing everything at 1 inf. It will all sell. Enough will sell above vendor to balance out that which sells below. Most importantly, it will sell fast.
But if you're selling your drops and still can't afford IOs, then I think you team too much, or the random number generator hates you or you are selling to the vendors. =) Teaming is great for exp, but really bad for money. Especially since you level faster you need money faster.
And don't sell your drops to the vendors except for TOs, DOs, and SOs. Each alchemical silver is worth a LOT. List it on the market for 1 and it will sell instantly sometimes for more than 100k. Runes, demonic blood samples, circuit boards, etc all worth a lot more than 250 each.
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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Nothing I said was a contradiction. I do not consider 3 defeats at any level range to be worth consideration for having problems. If you bite of more than you can chew then you will be defeated its that simple.|
Originally Posted by Jeuraud
Lol, I love these types of comments.
You say this, then this, which contradicts the first part of your statement. Unless of course you are used to being defeated a lot more than 3 times before you reach lvl 15, and don't consider those 3 defeats worthy of being listed as even a single problem. |
That being said it is very easy to have more than 3 defeat before level 15 depending on how you play or what your archetype is. If you consider 3 defeats to be a lot within 15 levels then that is YOUR problem, but to me 3 defeats is nothing to raise concern about.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
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If you can't survive as a Stalker, and can only survive as a Scrapper or Brute - you're doing it wrong. And it's facetious at best to imply that you need to play the market to survive as a Stalker.|
Originally Posted by Polecat7
Seriously, if that is what it takes to play a stalker, I'll just re-roll. That is just.... words cannot describe it. I know my perpetually broke self can survive as a scrapper or brute....
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I'm not the most-skilled player, and I played my Nin/NB Stalker 1-20 just fine in Praetoria, selling enhancements, recipes and salvage, and was able to afford all the enhancements I needed. I could have e-mailed inf to myself, or found some other way to work the system, but I didn't need to.
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Then you missed the point there of that comment. I was asking if the people who weren't having any difficulties were using IOs instead of the TOs and DOs you can get through Praetoria. To get a raft of IOs at those levels WOULD require playing the market.|
Originally Posted by Rooftop_Raider
If you can't survive as a Stalker, and can only survive as a Scrapper or Brute - you're doing it wrong. And it's facetious at best to imply that you need to play the market to survive as a Stalker.
I'm not the most-skilled player, and I played my Nin/NB Stalker 1-20 just fine in Praetoria, selling enhancements, recipes and salvage, and was able to afford all the enhancements I needed. I could have e-mailed inf to myself, or found some other way to work the system, but I didn't need to. |
My implication, which you missed, was that if you NEED IOs to be effective in Praetoria then there is where the disconnect is between people who are "doing fine" and people who struggled (like myself). The responder about my question posted a litany about how to earn money on the Market that, quite frankly, turned my stomach. Thus the response you're responding to.
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That was not the case with any of my Praetorians, including two Stalkers. I didn't use any enhancements until level 12 and DOs. I played them all solo, too.
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Originally Posted by Polecat7
I was asking if the people who weren't having any difficulties were using IOs instead of the TOs and DOs you can get through Praetoria.
My implication, which you missed, was that if you NEED IOs to be effective in Praetoria then there is where the disconnect is between people who are "doing fine" and people who struggled (like myself). |
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
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My Stalker used the pre-order enchancements and that's about it. I didn't bother slotting anything until I arrived in Talos which I then bought some level 20s until I get her to 22 so I can grab some common 25 IO's. I personally do not think Stalkers need IO sets to be effective. On all three of my Stalkers I have gone unslotted until 20. It can be a little frustrating due to random missing, but its not that bad to be honest since in the low level game you still hit pretty regularly.
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Originally Posted by Polecat7
Then you missed the point there of that comment. I was asking if the people who weren't having any difficulties were using IOs instead of the TOs and DOs you can get through Praetoria. To get a raft of IOs at those levels WOULD require playing the market.
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"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
I just used TOs/DOs to slot my Stalker in Praetoria with the exception of any noteworthy IO recipe drops I got along the way(I got a steadfast protection +def drop and a regen tissue +regen, so I crafted and slotted them) and that did me fine until level 22 when I slotted some standard level 25 IOs(because I hate updating my enhancements when I level up).
"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"
Okay. That answers the question I was posing, and was part of my concern. That means it's likely an experience gap, and I don't mean character experience. More experience playing the AT. I've admitted I'm not an experienced Stalker, and those who seemed to have a relatively easy time of it are experienced Stalkers (tho do correct me if I'm wrong) or at the least found it easy to get into that mindset.
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Yeah, it really is just a matter of getting a hang of the AT. I am also one who hates playing the market in any way, shape or form aside from just selling all salvage for 11 inf I think, and all enhancements and low level recipes to the vendors. The exception would be any set IO recipes I got I would put on the market just to check the history/number for sale vs number of current bidders to see if it was worth auctioning or just selling, or as I mentioned I would craft any special IOs that were useful to me. I also crafted a bunch of the temporary power recipes that dropped as I found they helped a lot... especially the revolver, plasmatic taser and gabriel's hammer powers. To help out a little, I did mail myself 200k inf from another character for just in case purposes until I built up enough on my own.
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Originally Posted by Polecat7
Okay. That answers the question I was posing, and was part of my concern. That means it's likely an experience gap, and I don't mean character experience. More experience playing the AT. I've admitted I'm not an experienced Stalker, and those who seemed to have a relatively easy time of it are experienced Stalkers (tho do correct me if I'm wrong) or at the least found it easy to get into that mindset.
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"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"
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I completely agree that someone with experience playing a Stalker versus someone with no experience playing Stalkers would have an easier time. However there are people who say they have experience with them who are still having issues and I personally think it really comes down to personal play style contributing more than the AT.|
Originally Posted by Polecat7
Okay. That answers the question I was posing, and was part of my concern. That means it's likely an experience gap, and I don't mean character experience. More experience playing the AT. I've admitted I'm not an experienced Stalker, and those who seemed to have a relatively easy time of it are experienced Stalkers (tho do correct me if I'm wrong) or at the least found it easy to get into that mindset.
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I personally think Praetoria is Stalker friendly, but that might not be the same feeling someone else may have. I base it solely on the arcs I played and how I play the character. 5 defeats in 21 levels to me is good, but someone else might see that as excessive. Up until level 20 it was 3 defeats, but Colonel Duray handled me twice in the same mission. My additional defeats also came when I was teamed with someone versus being solo 1-20.
In the end as long as you like the character that is really all that matters.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
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Quick note, you'll do better using unusual pricing. Lots of lazy bidders and sellers use 11111 or 22222. If you sell at 10 and I sell at 11 you will win and I will lose. If you bid 12 and I bid 11, you will win and I will lose. It is a seemingly small thing, but kicks in plenty often.
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Originally Posted by Fomsie
I am also one who hates playing the market in any way, shape or form aside from just selling all salvage for 11 inf I think, and all enhancements and low level recipes to the vendors
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"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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It's not just lazy: 1111 influence will mean that the seller recieves 1000 inf after transaction fees. So 1111 is the "no loss" pricing for yellow salvage. Similarly, 1,111,111 is "I want to actually get one mill out of this". 11 is a lazy "not 1 or 10", though
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
Quick note, you'll do better using unusual pricing. Lots of lazy bidders and sellers use 11111 or 22222. If you sell at 10 and I sell at 11 you will win and I will lose. If you bid 12 and I bid 11, you will win and I will lose. It is a seemingly small thing, but kicks in plenty often.
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the fee is 10% not 11.1111111%. So if you want "1 million out of this" your sell price should be 1,100,000. If you set your sell to 1,111,111 and I set my sell to 1,100,000 I will sell, you will not and I will get 1 million off the market.|
Originally Posted by AnElfCalledMack
It's not just lazy: 1111 influence will mean that the seller recieves 1000 inf after transaction fees. So 1111 is the "no loss" pricing for yellow salvage. Similarly, 1,111,111 is "I want to actually get one mill out of this". 11 is a lazy "not 1 or 10", though
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People pretty regularly admit to typing 6666666 and 7777777 for bids and sale prices out of habit, speed, laziness etc. They are not doing math to get exact amounts. Or if they are, they need to update their formulas. =)
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Originally Posted by Polecat7 Okay. That answers the question I was posing, and was part of my concern. That means it's likely an experience gap, and I don't mean character experience. More experience playing the AT. I've admitted I'm not an experienced Stalker, and those who seemed to have a relatively easy time of it are experienced Stalkers (tho do correct me if I'm wrong) or at the least found it easy to get into that mindset. |
I do what I put in my post in less than 10 minutes per play session right at the end. Teleport to market from wherever I am, buy a few bits of salvage to craft what dropped while playing run to the university, craft, run back, sell everything, buy new porter and log out.
Unless you want day job credit, then add self destruct or port to pocket D. =)
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
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When you change your price to 1,100,000, the fee changes to 110,000, so you would get 990,000. The previous poster was correct.
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Originally Posted by GavinRuneblade
the fee is 10% not 11.1111111%. So if you want "1 million out of this" your sell price should be 1,100,000.
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'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.
My stalker, at level 18, has mostly level 19 and 20 IOs, including a few set bits for bonuses. And is having a pretty easy time, probably as a result.
I funded her by making a ton of level 10 and 15 IOs for people with rich alts, and got enough money to get a Kismet +6% accuracy proc to leave in Hide.
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Technically the listing fee is 5%. So if you list for 1,100,000 the fee is 55,000. Let's say it sells for exactly the listing price. At that time the 5% is refunded and you are charged 10% of the final sale price or 110,000. In this case you would get 990,000 off the market to keep. and the market would keep 110,000.|
Originally Posted by Megami-Neko
When you change your price to 1,100,000, the fee changes to 110,000, so you would get 990,000. The previous poster was correct.
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So all of us are wrong. Good point thanks!
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
well there is a way to get rid of ambushes...
when you get ambushed...the game only gives you one usualy at a time...this is to prevent farming of a certain type if i recall right.
Anywise you can use this to your advantage.....you want to kill the ambush all the way except for one target...placte the target...they will go back to where they come from....
net result...no more ambushes....
this doesnt work on everything...like it wont work in the crotoa mission to stop things from entering the portal or stop red caps from trying to destroy monuments....but it will stop the ones that try to kill you because you are leading an npc...or have to hang out while you wait for a computer to be reprogrammed.
And as for leading people out misisons....just remember you stealth fairly fast when you activate hide and placate gives you stealth for a number of seconds...both usages can allow you to assasin strike things while you still lead npcs out.
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Your additional comments, and the response above, help to fill out the implications, so my apologies for jumping on you. And yes, I am an experienced Stalker (actually every AT but the blue and red epic AT's) I have considerable experience with, and in my opinion, Stalkers are among the best solo AT's in the game. And especially at the lowest levels of the game, their very AT design stands out more than the others, than they do in the later part of the game, when all sets get more powers and some fringe combinations in each AT tend to dominate within AT boundaries, and excel beyond them.|
Originally Posted by Polecat7
Then you missed the point there of that comment. I was asking if the people who weren't having any difficulties were using IOs instead of the TOs and DOs you can get through Praetoria. To get a raft of IOs at those levels WOULD require playing the market.
My implication, which you missed, was that if you NEED IOs to be effective in Praetoria then there is where the disconnect is between people who are "doing fine" and people who struggled (like myself). The responder about my question posted a litany about how to earn money on the Market that, quite frankly, turned my stomach. Thus the response you're responding to. |
I just feel that, regardless of financial situation (deliberately avoiding the market and making unwise buying/selling decisions, to IO crafting and skilled profiteering), Stalkers will certainly hold their own at the lower levels. Really in Praetoria our biggest concerns are against ambushes that are targeted on us, and escort missions that compromise our stealth. And modestly skilled players can work around that just fine.
To put what I am saying into further context. I went on hiatus in 2009 and only came back after I17, because GR was coming out. And I have no characters littered with IO's and set bonuses, and I really only recently started using the market in any way. With the exception of 3 characters, all others use either standard enhancements (TO/DO/SO) or the common IO's. The three that don't are littered with more HO's than I care to admit.
IO's are not required to make characters that can handle the in-game content just fine. Though characters with optimal powerset combos on the right AT's with the best inventions and bonuses, combined with experience and solid gameplans can make the game seem trivial.
I have to agree with some people that Preatoria Misisons seam easier to me with a stalker....but then again most misisons are fairly easy...the only thing i have trouble with is trying to be the perfect assassin and play that way(thats where you do the absolute minimal onthe missions...as in you kill the boss only....you dont kill anything else or hurt anything else unless you have to.
Someone metnioned that mission where you are supposed ot protect the media building from the gang...well that mission isnt supposed to be easy for anyone....and actualy it all depends on what types of powers you have.
As a stalker....i floated up over a tree and let the enemies come jump at me....i was out of range of their attacks but they where within my melee range...i eleiminated all targets...as that was the missions objective description(perfect assassination can make things difficult but not impossible)
On any missions with tons of spanws i would normaly kill all the taregts except one and then placate it....end of the spawn problem most of the time.
I only died on a few missions...becasue i wasnt able to do the damage required fast enough...like the metronome mission for example or the mission with the preatorian Tsoo in the office building where they send a couple hundred enemies after you.....both times it was an unexpected death(i didnt expect the clock work to kill me with one hit and i didnt expect that many enemies to come after me all at once while i am hidden)
Over all though...not too bad...
My only other difficulty was that i ran out of misisons alot....it seams you get missions in batches depending on your level.....so i ran out at 8 before i reached 10...i ran out at 14 before i reached 15 ran out again at 18 before i reached 20....the last time was a good thing because it let me go around and get badges.
It might also have been easier depending on my route i took....i chose to be a loyalist who looked for power...then chose to be a hero when i went to the normal game.
I got the best possible dimension change i think....becasue the emporer didnt hate me...he didnt despise me....he just wanted me to be careful....and he warned me of his plans...and told me eventualy he would attack and at that point i would have to choose whether i would help him or stay out of his way and help the people.
Only thing i miss is the crazy misisons to get more fame and popularity.
The Destroyer Horde is actually a trivial fight, although it can be tedious. Just discover their limitations and take advantage of them.
'I don't like the look of it at all,' said the King: 'however, it may kiss my hand if it likes.'
'I'd rather not,' the Cat remarked.
'Don't be impertinent,' said the King, 'and don't look at me like that!' He got behind Alice as he spoke.
'A cat may look at a king,' said Alice.