It has to be asked

Regen and Willpower are a bit bassackwards in gameplay, IMO. Regeneration should be the one that's just passively on and doing its job, and Willpower should be the one that requires active, willful power usage. That said, Willpower is the Regeneration set I wanted back when I chose Regeneration (and the super-regen power was a toggle rather than a click). Its more passive use as well as its overall effectiveness makes it a better set for me.

For me Regen isn't even in the same league as WP when both are IO'ed.

For PvP Regen wins hands down, but in PvE walking around on a WP with ~40% defense to all damage types, 2200+ HP and anywhere from 60-100 Hp per second regenerating all the time is almost too good.

You might get a combo like Kat/Regen that is better at taking on a few S/L based hard targets, but Kat and BS are outliers because of the crazy high defense you get out of Divine avalanche. Size up combos like DB/WP and DB/Regen or Fire/Regen and Fire/WP and the willpower is much much better off at taking on larger spawns without breaking a sweat.

In Response to Iggy and Umbral,

Iggy, by solo I meant I was only one on team (it was an AE mish with a bunch of AV's in it), I must confess I cheated a bit, the mish gave you one person to help, the AV's were on level 53 and they gave you Statesman at level 50, so he helped with dmg dealing (I don't think its possible to actually solo Recluse), but I tanked him and helped with the damage.

Umbral, as its your build you deserve more than a little credit you deserve all of it in fact, thank you very much, I just thanked Werne for pointing me to your build. Also I'm on Freedom if any plays there or just wants to talk (@Paxidikae), Pax (my kat/regen) is extremely fun to play now thanks to Umbral, i'm currently working on a ss/wp tanker (haven't really tried Tankers), and as far as straight up Defense capabilities I believe that WP is better than regen, especially if you don't have a power like Divine Avalanche to boost your Defense. But I still find myself in huge trouble on my tanker when I do get hit and go down in health (but that may be because I'm on level 23).

I remember PF doing it.

Took a shot at him with my katana/WP before, but after 15-20 minutes and barely making a dent... I gave up. Might try him again later.

After PF did it I try it like 30+ times and never beat him. I only got close once, and after a while I gave up.

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Personally, i loved regen back in the day ( IH toggle!!) after coming back from the game i took a good 30 mins to see all the new powers and stuff, but when i saw WP i just got pissed. Instead of fixing regen they make a whole new set? now im not asking for IH to be a toggle again ( if they did omg id die a happy man) but maybe some type of recharge discount or maybe a bigger bonus to regen, seeing as how thats the purpose of the set is to regenerate ie if i six slot fast healing or recovery it better pwn WP fast healing and recovery. Just to test drive it i made a tanker WP/Elec..wow.. six slot Rise To The Challenge with all heals and one to hit debuff and your gravey, or if you wanna be sure to surpress 2 should do it. I think it should be agreed that my veteran scrapper DM/Regen needs a bigger boost, yeah im a god with MoG but it doesnt last long enough in larger fights, then again its a scrapper im not meant to take on hordes just to keep the damage flowing, but i still want to see a + to regen and recovery rates to the Regen AT. It deserves it, or just turn on IH Toggle =D

I think that a really good point is this, why is the Regeneration Power set so click intensive, that doesn't make sense at all, I agree that the regen rate shouldd be crazy for it...........because the powerset is called Regeneration........I don't understand why willpower is the non click intense one, that doesn't make sense. When using your will its doesn't just stay there you are motivated to do something while your doing it........but w/e most of the game doens't make sense but its heroes they don't have too.

I agree with the thrust of the thread: I'm working on a MA/Regen for standard missioning. No uberbuild, not really interested in set bonuses. Just want to try two sets that I havent worked a lot with. I must say that compared to a lot of other sets, regen is second rate. I understand that there is some planning to be done with attacking, timing big hits, etc., but I consistantly find myself attacking and running to wait for my heals to come up. The whole set is burst mitigation that is overwhelmed with sustained playing. Yes, I have little down time b/w fights; I think I have most of it during the fight. Something to help with heals sould be done.

Some of these ideas could help:

- IH toggle is always welcome
- Add recharge, or other resists, to reconstruction (like toxic) 7.5% - 10% stackable or a flat 20% to resiliance.
- Someone else mentioned make IH actually completely healing first then functioning as usual... ok (doubt it though)
- Scaling resistance or scaling healing or scaling recharges (ya, I know, slippery slope here) to passives so the less health you have the faster the heals come up (not necessarily helping the primary tho).
- activating MoG gives a 100%* recharge rate for its durration.

I dont want to interfere with regens "glass jaw" but if we're not going to layer protection; It needs to able to get back its tools faster.

*sounds high maybe 50%

I wonder why no one ever mentions /Fire when they call out for buffs to Regen. Personally, I consider Fire the poor man's Regen (survivability wise), because all it basically has is Reconstruction (albeit on a faster recharge) and low resistances instead of all the cool stuff Regen gets to stay alive. I've never been happy with Regen's clickyness, though, as it interrupts my scrapping.

You should take your DB/WP scrapper into PvP...

I'd love to see Regen buffed. I have four Regen characters.

I don't ever expect to see it happen.

We're in a thread talking about how many simultaneous AVs people have soloed, or how many multiple spawns of L54 Rikti were sitting on someone's head while they soloed a pylon.

As best as I can tell, the devs are never going to bother to try to balance how powersets compare at those levels of performance, except possibly to occasionally take a hammer to the powersets that perform overly well. (Even then, it's usually because the powersets perform too well in an absolute sense, or because they univerally outperform all other sets.)

I'm not telling most of the posters in this thread anything they haven't said themselves, but I didn't notice it mentioned, so I thought I'd bring it up for anyone new to these parts. The devs strive for balance in a very heavily averaged sense, and builds + player able to achieve the levels of performance being discussed (outside of Werner's discission of survival score for SO'd builds) are generally so rare (or so task specific) that they just don't move the average that much. It's when powersets' uber achievements based on a really high baseline performance is when it shows up in data mining, and the devs tend to get involved.

Edit: By the way, dipping even deeply into the red during the Rikti challenge on a Regen is not a sign of a problem. It's how the powerset works. If you don't die as a result, dipping into the red is fine. If you charge deep into the red on a WP you might have a serious problem on your hands (barring taking/buying a self-heal) whereas a Regen can survive it with far greater frequency. That's how the two powersets are designed to work relative to one another.

Repeating some of what Cybernaut and UberGuy said for emphasis.

A Regen's health bar is just like breathing. Breathe in, breathe out. Every time I breathe out, my health bar may go red. But I'm just breathing.

I'm also not impressed by the "go make a sandwich" survivability of Willpower. That just says that Willpower using all of its key powers is stronger than Regeneration NOT using four of its key powers. Uh... of course? So don't go make a sandwich in the middle of a nasty spawn on a Regen or ANY character that requires active involvement for its survivability. Problem solved.

I'm not saying Regen is stronger. I'm just saying that "your health keeps going red" and "you can't go make a sandwich" aren't very meaningful points as long as you have a player actually PLAYING the game.