WP all the way. What good are heals if they arent up yet or if you take damage alot faster than you can click them. On WP I tend to play the set like the way the old regen used to be. Set it and forget it is what I always say. It makes it where I can concentrate more on the battle.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
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That is true, however Regen has more than just heals for example check out this build (courtesy of Umbral)
Code:
Also mid that the Totals are without Instant Healing on or MoG, you can check them oout when they are on too, with MoG on and that crazy recharge rate you become capped in every type of Defense except for Psionics, Melee, Ranged and AoE.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1406;718;1436;HEX;| |78DA9D935B4F134114C767BB5B6A614B5B4A29B7425BC0520A0B441E04BC240A28D| |06A03840705EADA8E6523D9366D1FE0CD0FE02D68E2936F8AFA118C4F7E0DF59BA0| |AEE7B26D627C73D3FE7FB333FF33E7CCEC4CFE784517E2C975A174DF3C321B8DE27| |6A96ED66AB2EECD9B15ABE42F98C756D97A6C4A9F1022DA1A2CE6E59194C6A6D934| |6D33DEEE5D918FA4DD90C696AC485BD6CDA655B5C3EBF6A1AC4BBB69B41A7AA15A3| |D3272D2AC5976A5935EB66B529603D45CB32A874D1808B65C65596F1C5AB5F06ACD| |2A1937AAE59362DE6C3465FDA41F2ACAC0FF1996468FE315698F10F3C233C9C810B| |4294696D0F11510112B18A5509410E30247567D6E8F703465135A0BA2234FB87087| |7197D05920AC815DE5193CEA1B0F8D9C12F404CDD707062F1B146F9462F45EC24B1| |8F1512EC7EB7B20B0ABDB649408A13243127A38F81644F9793ECD9FA3AE1EAEAF97| |EBEBE5FAFAB8BEE760EF72F7A5EB9C0AEBFB49E8FFC5F84D1874184245C4202AC05| |19EC0371A19FECEF841B80D862057A106AF41232E4678FF46922A214138055FD84D| |1FE6F4094E9FE0F4094E9FE4F4494E9F82A888BBA9912C4D9B648C31143044795A1| |175E0112AF4C4DC90D8255AFAD802638EF00A0C036E250345405A8C1F30F60917F7| |18F719F7081B1035E46EC410E74EFF050D0C71376F9CBF509A3F6F2644780D8651F| |73C8D2ED2E11B5F2264961957085357092FC09E725796E21439E89AE02E7582534C| |85196C9861ECC0DE4D7229DEC977B49F33EF09B36784F90F8C8F8C4F8433F8CE59F| |73C65F9004FF3019EDE50700BA67729D70C1FE7301463B8EB35B898595EEF2CAF77| |1D0C73EE959A8BD1C918D6DA77137EF8B572FFF414B4F6B5130AF58C6AEDBBE9F84| |3E4146CFEAFE7B3DE9ACEBFD509BA8352005176B1B587B28FAF07D832B1F510A584| |AFCE17BD5570F032D6B588B284B28C1285FAC45374FAF0B275A1E82801946E94204| |A0825823288F216C5F90335E8FADF| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
been a few months I guess... so OK
It HAS been a few months! Off we go!
Willpower doesn't NEED heals. It's not a failing that it doesn't have heals if it doesn't need them.
My opinion is that Willpower is stronger than Regeneration. As a quick example, Werner (Katana/Regen) can solo a Rikti War Zone Challenge. Iggy's Will (Katana/Willpower) can solo a Rikti Pylon while surrounded by TWO Rikti War Zone challenge spawns, then finish off the spawns. Then he can go and do an ITF solo with no temps, no inpsirations, and no deaths. But then, he IS Iggy.
I'm not saying that Willpower is hugely stronger, and I don't think the sets need any rebalancing, though I won't complain if they give Regeneration some VERY MINOR buffs. But I do think Willpower's stronger.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I won't play Regen because it's a lot of clicking to take care of myself. My toon becomes high maintenance. That's not fun to me.
WP has RttC. OOOh, I love thee RttC. I bought an engagement ring because I was going to marry it but I just scratched up the screen of my monitor trying to put it on the toolbar.
QR, oh, QR. OOOH, QR. AAAh, QR.
Hightened senses? How much would that much defense to the ENFC be worth if you were slotting bonuses for it?
WP rocks rocks rocks.
If you like/ can handle the clickies, then regen is nice. But, WP is a "fire and forget" mode and it surely doesnt need any heals 
(I made a /wp recently and even if still is a lowbie w/o IO:s, i feel quite powerful with it at times...)
Main downside for a WP is that disengaging from a mob temporarily to recover a bit doesn't work as well because your regen goes down a lot if nothing's nearby. Of course, that's not something that happens often. Even with my goofy built to cap psi defense wp, I think I've only had to disengage vs snaptooth and the cimerorans (high def debuffage hurts).
Culex's resistance guide
Quote:
Well, the nice thing about regen is that it doesn't matter what kind of damage is coming your way, you can always heal/regen back up. However, regen does have its disadvantages as well. Most of its survivability lies within its heals, which are click powers with its own recharge and endurance cost. That being said, if your endurance is too low for some reason, you're not going to be able to use your heals. Also, click powers are prone to recharge debuffs, which means that anything that has decent recharge debuff is going to pretty much disable your heals.|
Originally Posted by Charde
As for my opinion I think that Regen offers more survivability simply because of the presence of heals. However I also have a WP scrapper and I think that the Rise to the Challenge power is awesome, but WP lacks any heals if you get in trouble (which is ALWAYS a possibility). I would also like peoples opinion on the best melee pair for these two secondary's. My conclusion Regen has better survivability while WP has a great "all around" approach.
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In general, regen's weaknesses are:
> Endurance debuffs and endurance drain powers. Low endurance = unable to activate your heals, which is really all you have to "mitigate" damage.
> Recharge debuff. You may be able to use all your heals the first time around, but they're not going to recharge fast enough afterward to be of any use.
> Regen debuff. This is obvious, you rely on regeneration, therefore if your regen is gone you don't have any other form of mitigation either.
> High maintenance. You have to watch your HP bar a lot. You also have to get the timing down for your heals, since you don't want to waste it and use it too early and you don't want to use it way too late.
> Everytime you click a heal, you could have used that time to use an attack instead. As the fight drags on, you're wasting more time clicking heals than clicking your attacks and this does add up to a lot of wasted dps.
As for WP's weaknesses:
> No self heal. Sure you can take a beating, but eventually you're going to need that heal if the fight drags on.
> Regen debuff. Just like regeneration, you do rely on your ability to regenerate hp quite a lot as well.
Personally, I think WP for Scrappers aren't really as strong as WP for Tanks/Brutes. But then again, it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish.
I think WP is the Regen killer. I played both, unslotted, and WP kicks Regens *** to kingdom come. Just my personal experience.
One day, /Regen. One day you'll get IH back as a Toggle. One day..
I have little experience with Regen. but it seems to me that Willpower can take a self-heal from pool powers, but Regen can't take much from the pool powers to simulate Willpower's abilities (except Tough and Weave, which Willpower can ALSO take and benefit from). Regen taking Heal Self just doesn't have the same impact.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I think WP is sort of like the old Regen back in the toggle IH days. You put your toggles on and you don't die, generally.
/votes for WP.
I have to say, though, that in the hands of an extremely skilled player and assuming uber IO setup a Regen might just take the edge on survival. But then again, WP can get nearly as good with no activity from the player.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Willpower takes Heal Self. /Regen takes Hasten.
In that respect they kind of even out. It's really the fact that Willpower has built-in defense and /Regen doesn't that helps to shoot Willpower up so far, given that +Def from IO's is really the best thing to do with set bonus slotting.
I can see this thread has gotten some attention, however, I stand by my opinion that Regen is the best. Keep in mind that my regen guy is kat/regen, but It does't have to click intensive for example, just put your two heal powers (reconstruction and Dull pain on alt 1,2 or 3 keys and u should be fine). and on top of that I think that regen lasts longer, you can have MoG up and pop Instant healing and completely refill health by the time MoG wears off.
Regeneration is still very good, the only problem with Regeneration is it takes skill, where as WP is just a set and forget secondary. Not to mention Regeneration destroys WP in PvP by a long shot.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
I wouldn't say Regen DESTROYS a WP, but I do agree with the fact that regen has more potential to do better in the hands of experienced players...or in the hands of someone with tons of influence...BUT ANYHOW.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Regeneration is still very good, the only problem with Regeneration is it takes skill, where as WP is just a set and forget secondary. Not to mention Regeneration destroys WP in PvP by a long shot.
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A simple example of how Regen can benefit more is by simply adding more global recharge. Since pretty much all of Regen's powers are click-able's, more recharge would mean they'll be up more often. Regen as a whole benefits a lot from global +recharge whereas WP isn't going to benefit anything from global +recharge...even its tier9 suggests so :P
Of course, WP can make an argument for getting more global +res as well as global +def, but Regen still seems like it'll pull ahead just because BOTH primary and secondary will benefit from global +recharge whereas WP will have to chose between +recharge or +def/+res.
As another point of data, here are the survivability scores (higher is better) that my spreadsheet assigns the two most survivable (from accomplishment that I'm aware of point of view) examples of Regeneration and Willpower:
- 2236 Val Blademaster's Katana/Regen (by Umbral) that beat 4 AVs at once no temps no insps
- 1762-2826 Iggy Kamakaze's Katana/Willpower that soloed the ITF no temps no insps no deaths (score depends on number of targets)
If anything, I think my spreadsheet scores Regen higher than it should, and that Katana helps Regeneration more than Willpower. So I'd probably rate Willpower higher than it appears. But in any case, I'm showing them being fairly close, but Willpower pulling ahead as the number of targets climb. That seems reasonable.
This is, of course, maxed out, and says very little about normal day-to-day performance of 99% of the builds in the game. I'd calculate just the secondaries with SOs and no power pools if I weren't terminally lazy this weekend. But I'm not sure it would mean anything. For instance, I've already done that for Shield and Fire, and don't consider the results to be at all representative of what you'll encounter in game:
- 32 Shield Defense
- 108 Fire Armor
Basically, without power pools, neither mitigates well, so it's all down to who heals faster, and Fire heals faster. We already knew that, so the numbers aren't helpful. We might find something equally meaningless in such a comparison of Regeneration to Willpower.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Maybe not in PvE but in PvP WP can't hold a candle to the amount of survivability of a decent player playing a regenerator. A good regenerator 1vs1 against other melee AT no matter the primary should not die.
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Originally Posted by SPiNE
I wouldn't say Regen DESTROYS a WP, but I do agree with the fact that regen has more potential to do better in the hands of experienced players...or in the hands of someone with tons of influence...BUT ANYHOW.
A simple example of how Regen can benefit more is by simply adding more global recharge. Since pretty much all of Regen's powers are click-able's, more recharge would mean they'll be up more often. Regen as a whole benefits a lot from global +recharge whereas WP isn't going to benefit anything from global +recharge...even its tier9 suggests so :P Of course, WP can make an argument for getting more global +res as well as global +def, but Regen still seems like it'll pull ahead just because BOTH primary and secondary will benefit from global +recharge whereas WP will have to chose between +recharge or +def/+res. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I'd say WP for PVE. No clicks, so your defense doesn't intrude on your offense. It also excels with large groups of enemies, assuming you can take the alpha. Toggle and forget, scrapperlock away.
I prefer Regen for PVP. You have all those clicks, but you can usually find the time to get them in while running around, without any significant impact to your offense. PVE-wise, it does better with fewer enemies and alpha strikes can be brutal if you're between MOGs. If you choose your enemies well, Parry can keep you pretty safe overall. Regardless, you have to keep an eye on your health, which can make the powerset more engaging for players looking for that.
Fairly close to each other.
I do agree that WP has a slight edge over regen. In the process or respecing back my Katana/regen PvP build to pve cause of this thread. It probably wont be able to do things that my Kat/WP can do but it will have 200+ DPS which I will enjoy... 
I think its a matter of play style, I like Regen because I like being active with my toon, my WP scrapper is also fun, but when he gets hit he has trouble taking damage when he DOES get hit. My regen (kat/regen) is much better at outlasting people because if I do get in trouble I pop my heal (620 hp) and i'm good for another 17 sec when Reconstruction is back up.
BTW Werne.......I don't know who you are, but in short I love you for posting that Val Battlemaster build for me......I just got it complete and so far have solo'd Tyrant, Romulus, Marauder, and Requeim. (in a team of two we were able to take down Diabolique with me tanking). Thank you so much!
Well, Umbral actually designed Val Blademaster's build. I just knew enough to save it when I saw it. Glad you're enjoying it in any case.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Be that as it may Werne, I must thank Umbral as well. But you are the one who showed it to me, and I just added Recluse to my list (not STF, I don't thinks thats possible for a kat/regen)
Quote:
STF or not...|
Originally Posted by Charde
Be that as it may Werne, I must thank Umbral as well. But you are the one who showed it to me, and I just added Recluse to my list (not STF, I don't thinks thats possible for a kat/regen)
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how did you manage to pull that off?
Ok i'm making this thread, because this is a debate that goes on in game and on forums throughout various threads. For a scrapper, WP or Regen, please feel free to post builds and do the incredibly nerdy art of number crunching (not an insult I do it
). As for my opinion I think that Regen offers more survivability simply because of the presence of heals. However I also have a WP scrapper and I think that the Rise to the Challenge power is awesome, but WP lacks any heals if you get in trouble (which is ALWAYS a possibility). I would also like peoples opinion on the best melee pair for these two secondary's. My conclusion Regen has better survivability while WP has a great "all around" approach. Have fun and keep it clean please (No insults to a person's build, constructive criticism is welcome)