Defense numbers to shoot for on a Willpower Brute
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Yes.| I've got S/L at 24.4%, F/C at 28.4% and E/N at 32.2% I know I can get this higher but is it really all the effective to really start reaching for more +Def and start loosing some of my max HP and Regen bonuses? |
WP starts off with lots of max HP and regen, so adding more of it doesn't make a big difference (or, "big" being relative, let's say instead it doesn't make a difference as big as on other secondaries).
It's safe to say you can go all the way to the softcap* before building for defense over maxHP/regen starts being a poor choice. MaxHP/Regen on a WP should, in my opinion, be something you get while going for other bonuses or maximising stats in a power, but never a goal.
* That said, the effort required to softcap can severely compromise your recharge or power stats.
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Don't think of it as a hinderance, think of it as build priority.|
Originally Posted by beowulf2010
Basically, where abouts does more +Def stop being a help to Willpower and start being a hiderence? Oh, I should mention my char is SS/WP/Soul but would prefer to not to need to use Darkest Night on anything except AVs and GMs.
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Anywhere from 20-30% is probably a decent base range which will allow you to be more flexibile with power choices or to focus on more recharge (i.e. better DPS).
That being said, you can softcap to SM/L without gimping, or hindering your character, it will just require sacrifices elsewhere.
On Darkest Night: Darkest Night is an AoE defense tool, it's meant to be used in that capacity and will provide survivability to you and your team. It's also useful against single hard targets like Bosses and EBs, but in most situation those shouldn't give you much trouble anyway.
AVs however will reduce the debuff amounts so drastically as to make Darkest Night not nearly as valuable.
I use Darkest Night against "trouble" mobs like Longbow, Arachnos, Cimerorans and Malta.
It allows my build to run with "only" 30% SM/L/Ene/Neg defense and solo something like the ITF cyst mission.
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Only the -ToHit, the -Damage isn't affected by the magic -85% AV thing. All that resists the -damage is the AVs own Damage Resistance.*
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
AVs however will reduce the debuff amounts so drastically as to make Darkest Night not nearly as valuable.
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Quote:
Good catch.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Only the -ToHit, the -Damage isn't affected by the magic -85% AV thing. All that resists the -damage is the AVs own Damage Resistance.*
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However the OP is focused on a +Defense aspect of his build, using Darkest Night only for AVs and I think GMs will not provide the -To Hit to make up for being below softcap.
It will however, allow for some amazing things against very troublesome mobs typically the ones with heavy debuffs, which can easily foil a Willpower Brute.
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I don't think there is a general rule. For example, your regeneration can be overwhelmed, then it is more effective to get some defense instead of even higher regeneration. For some encounters, defense may not be useful because of mob's to-hit or defense debuff, then regeneration will give you a better chance to live.|
Originally Posted by beowulf2010
Heya, just messing around with Mids for my first (soon to be) IOd 50 Willpower Brute and was wondering what a good effective baseline number to shoot for for my Defense stats in the various typed defenses would be?
I've got S/L at 24.4%, F/C at 28.4% and E/N at 32.2% I know I can get this higher but is it really all the effective to really start reaching for more +Def and start loosing some of my max HP and Regen bonuses? Basically, where abouts does more +Def stop being a help to Willpower and start being a hiderence? Oh, I should mention my char is SS/WP/Soul but would prefer to not to need to use Darkest Night on anything except AVs and GMs. |
There are personal preference on slotting. If you have any particular mob types that you fight against regularly, you can design your slotting correspondingly. Otherwise, if you want a more general purpose brute, it is probably the best to adopt a balanced approach, such that no one mob type can completely overwhelm your abilities.
Usually, a build has to make some sacrifice if you want to soft-cap s/l/e/ne defense. And defense debuff easily makes all these efforts go down the drain. A better approach is to raise your defense to the range of 30 to 40%, and then stack darkest night on top of it. You can probably do it while keeping your HP and regeneration reasonably high. Against AVs, darkest night will be resisted (~90% of the debuff is resisted), so you probably need strength of will for tough situation. However, if you hate darkest night, 30 to 40% defense is already a pretty good boost to survival by itself.
Dechs Kaison put together a survivability analysis spreadsheet somewhere ( http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=226653 ) that provides some guidance on balancing def v res v regen v hp
From zero, it's a lot easier to say what you need most. But once you start having some of everything it's not always easy to see directly which improvement will provide the greatest benefit.
The spread sheet provides a nice way of comparing disparate things.
All righty. So what I'm gathering is that in terms of pure survivability, there is no point pre-softcap at which +Def isn't the best way to go with Willpower, but that it's only my killing power and speed that I will have to make sacrifices to by going all the way to the S/L/E/N softcaps. Cool. That's basically the gist of what I was trying to find out. Now I can go back to playing with Mids. Thanks everyone!
Oh, and All Hell, thanks for pointing out Dechs' spreadsheet. I saw that a while back but I had completely forgotten about it. (Edit: OK, I hadn't seen Dech's before as he just poseted it a couple weeks ago. Saw something like it before. But thanks!!!)
Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...
Huh. Since y'all have been helpful in the generic feel for the build, whaddya think of the build itself?
Code:
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Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...
this is my build for my stone/wp. he's currently 42 and has no sets as of yet, but i suppose its time to start the process. the worst thing in the build is affording all the kinetic combats. my procs and lotg's come easily enough through merits
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Brute
Primary Power Set: Stone Melee
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Stone Fist -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(7), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(7), TtmC'tng-ResDam(9), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(9), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Heavy Mallet -- KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 4: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(15), RctvArm-EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB(A)
Level 8: Fault -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(19), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(19), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(21), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(21)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(23), LkGmblr-Def(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 12: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(25), Numna-Heal/Rchg(27)
Level 14: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(27), Numna-Heal/Rchg(29), DisWord-ToHitDeb(29), DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg(46), DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(48)
Level 18: Seismic Smash -- KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(A), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(33), P'Shift-EndMod(34)
Level 22: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(34), RctvArm-ResDam(34), RctvArm-EndRdx(36)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(36), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 26: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37), LkGmblr-Def(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 30: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(39), Numna-Heal/Rchg(39)
Level 32: Tremor -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(40), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(40), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), FrcFbk-Rechg%(48)
Level 35: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(42)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Gloom -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Dmg/Rng(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 47: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Set Bonus Totals:
- 18.8% Defense(Smashing)
- 18.8% Defense(Lethal)
- 5.63% Defense(Energy)
- 5.63% Defense(Negative)
- 9.38% Defense(Melee)
- 2.81% Defense(Ranged)
- 1.8% Max End
- 42.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 45% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 3% Enhancement(Stun)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 387.9 HP (25.9%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Confused) 1.65%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 16.5%
- MezResist(Sleep) 2.2%
- 5% (0.08 End/sec) Recovery
- 100% (6.26 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1.58% Resistance(Fire)
- 1.58% Resistance(Cold)
- 5% RunSpeed
@Injenius~Virtue
Stonefather - 50 Stone/WP/Soul brute
Sable Affliction - Earth/Dark/Fire Dom
Wild Cipher - Beast/Time MM
Here's an updated version of my tentative build with a few things moved around focusing more on Regen and Endurance but still having 31% or higher to all non-Psychic typed defenses. What do y'all think? I think I'm light on global Accuracy but I can't seem to remember what the magic numbers for total Accuracy you want for hitting +4's.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Apolina Creed - High Regen: Level 50 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: Super Strength
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(9)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal:50(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(40), Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(40), Aegis-ResDam:50(42), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(42), Aegis-Psi/Status:50(42)
Level 2: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(5)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Numna-Heal:50(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(15), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(15), Mrcl-Heal:40(37), RgnTis-Regen+:30(40)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(7)
Level 8: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(13)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- Ksmt-ToHit+:30(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal:50(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(17), Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(17), DampS-ToHitDeb:50(31), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg:50(37), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx:50(43)
Level 18: Rage -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(19), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(19), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(21), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(21), GSFC-Build%:50(23)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(34), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(36)
Level 22: Mind Over Body -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(23), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(31), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(45)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(25), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(25), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(27)
Level 26: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(29), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(36), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 30: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 32: Foot Stomp -- FrcFbk-Rechg%:50(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(33), Erad-Acc/Rchg:30(33), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(34), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(34)
Level 35: Health -- Numna-Heal:50(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(43)
Level 38: Strength of Will -- RctvArm-ResDam:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(39), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(39)
Level 41: Gloom -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Dev'n-Hold%:50(48), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Apoc-Acc/Rchg:50(48), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg:50(46), JavVoll-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech:50(46)
Level 47: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:50(A)
Level 49: Darkest Night -- DampS-ToHitDeb:50(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx:50(50), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx:50(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Fury
Level 1: Ninja Run
Code:
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Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...
Personally, if I'm not going for the softcap, I like to at least get to 33-35%, since at that point a single small purple will softcap you, and it is rather easy to get a small purple between drops and combining. Given that WP is a bit short on DDR, a bit of buffer is always nice in the event of autohit def debuffs like Quicksand.
That said, with WP, it's a tough call. Since it's not really reliant on defense for the most common attack types, in theory it won't need as much defense as other builds might. Tough stacked with Mind Over Body gives a pretty decent level of S/L resistance, and if you have enough mobs in range (especially debuffed mobs) you'll have pretty damn good regen, which can really help. Also, SS has pretty good mitigation in KO Blow (Knock-up with a Hold attached) and Footstomp (AoE Knockdown, which can buy you some time for HP to regen back). All in all, I'd still try for 35% to S/L, since most of the time that should be enough, and a small purple could easily put you into god-mode levels, for a short time at least.
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As a stopgap, use the sucky proc where you can. There are a ton of them on the market and they are cheap enough that you can use them as a placeholder to get the set bonus then just slot right over them once you get the triple. And if you are using any powers as setmules, might as well leave in the proc, because who cares right?
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Originally Posted by BlissfulChaos
the worst thing in the build is affording all the kinetic combats. my procs and lotg's come easily enough through merits
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"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
Quote:
This, Warron is dead on. I've got my claws/WP brute sitting at 45% S/L defense and 43% E/N defense (I don't worry much with fire/cold). Shoot for 45%, work on getting as many KC IO sets as you can, everything will be gravy after 32-35% with smart usage of purps.
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Originally Posted by WarronPeace
Personally, if I'm not going for the softcap, I like to at least get to 33-35%, since at that point a single small purple will softcap you, and it is rather easy to get a small purple between drops and combining. Given that WP is a bit short on DDR, a bit of buffer is always nice in the event of autohit def debuffs like Quicksand.
That said, with WP, it's a tough call. Since it's not really reliant on defense for the most common attack types, in theory it won't need as much defense as other builds might. Tough stacked with Mind Over Body gives a pretty decent level of S/L resistance, and if you have enough mobs in range (especially debuffed mobs) you'll have pretty damn good regen, which can really help. Also, SS has pretty good mitigation in KO Blow (Knock-up with a Hold attached) and Footstomp (AoE Knockdown, which can buy you some time for HP to regen back). All in all, I'd still try for 35% to S/L, since most of the time that should be enough, and a small purple could easily put you into god-mode levels, for a short time at least. |
On wp toons I generally go for +hp then +def then +regen to boost survivability.
Going heavy on the defense is likely over doing it. Even a SO wp toon should handle +2 with ease. Granted I also take CJ,tough and weave on most of my brute/scrapper/tank builds.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
Heya, just messing around with Mids for my first (soon to be) IOd 50 Willpower Brute and was wondering what a good effective baseline number to shoot for for my Defense stats in the various typed defenses would be?
I've got S/L at 24.4%, F/C at 28.4% and E/N at 32.2% I know I can get this higher but is it really all the effective to really start reaching for more +Def and start loosing some of my max HP and Regen bonuses?
Basically, where abouts does more +Def stop being a help to Willpower and start being a hiderence? Oh, I should mention my char is SS/WP/Soul but would prefer to not to need to use Darkest Night on anything except AVs and GMs.
Thanks!
Beowulf -
Too many Alts, not enough 50's. Story of my life...