You will want Siphon Speed. More recharge is always a good thing. Siphon Power, eh, with Fulcrum Shift you probably don't need it.
More recharge means faster FS.
*noms on Recharge*
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This. And if you play kin like I do, and rely on tansference for endurance, (staminaless) more recharge on that is also very helpful. Although with 2 kins I doubt that will be a problem.
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Originally Posted by StormyDarkness
More recharge means faster FS.
*noms on Recharge* |
You do want siphon power, but not until you're high level. Against AVs, spamming siphon power and fulcrum shift is an extremely effective way of destroying their damage output.
Siphon Power is a nice damage boost in the levels before you get Fulcrum Shift. I'd take it early and spec out later if you're so inclined.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Siphon power: dmg +25%, what's not to like?
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The Damage Cap.
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Originally Posted by Psylenz
Siphon power: dmg +25%, what's not to like?
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Yeah, with two kins and decent sized mobs, you'll be at the damage cap. In the higher levels as your team faces AVs, Siphon Power can be a very effective debuff; but if you're going to choose one vs the other, I'd go with Siphon Speed. Triple-stacked Siphon Speed plus Speed Boost from your teammate turns you into a machine gun.
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
The Damage Cap.
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Like others have said, between the two powers, I'd prioritize Siphon Speed. Siphon Power can be a useful debuff, but while playing a Controller, you have other forms of damage mitigation. Adding more recharge would be of greater use.
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Originally Posted by Robert_B
Fire/Kin
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You sure you don't have room in your build for both? Fire/Kins don't exactly need a lot of primary and pool powers to get by. And if you have to drop one, typically Fire/Kins do not have Siphon Power.
I'd definitely TRY to get both, but echo siphon speed first. And just cause you are on a team usually with another kin shouldn't mean u shouldn't be prepared for when not. On all my kins, I usually move siphon power to where FS is against solo AVS because it's both a faster recharge and slightly quicker animation. That allows more other attacks, heals and such.
Damage cap is the reason to not go for Siphon Power unless you're only using it as a debuff. I mean, 400% with two kins should be easy to reach. The recharge, however, gives you many other things possible because of it making all your powers recharge faster. More damage, more support, etc.
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Wrong wrong a million times wrong. It PAINS me to see people skip siphon power. There will be countless bosses and most importantly AVs where its INVALUABLE for. Especially when you're 3-4 stacking it giving you more damage than FS alone, by a very noticeable amount, and also very importantly debuffing the AVs damage in the process. Which is VERY important especially as a fire/kin, so the AVs don't one shot your imps which they so easily do (not sure if pets *can* be one shotted like we can't anymore, but they certainly don't fare well in general up against an AV)|
Originally Posted by Weatherby Goode
You will want Siphon Speed. More recharge is always a good thing. Siphon Power, eh, with Fulcrum Shift you probably don't need it.
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Siphon speed, a million times yes. As mentioned, more recharge is always good when its in the form of a perma-power as well. The extra speed is a nice bonus, and VS bosses/AVs the debuff is quite useful even if you have immobilize. *stares a EVIL mean stare at diabolique*
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He's got two Kins teamed up. With FSx2 every 8 seconds or so, there really is no great need for Siphon Power in this circumstance.
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Wrong wrong a million times wrong. It PAINS me to see people skip siphon power. There will be countless bosses and most importantly AVs where its INVALUABLE for. Especially when you're 3-4 stacking it giving you more damage than FS alone, by a very noticeable amount, and also very importantly debuffing the AVs damage in the process. Which is VERY important especially as a fire/kin, so the AVs don't one shot your imps which they so easily do (not sure if pets *can* be one shotted like we can't anymore, but they certainly don't fare well in general up against an AV)
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Unless I'm doing my math wrong, FS (against a single target) will provide the same amount of +dam as SP, assuming capped recharge. It won't cap damage on its own, but two of them could do it. However, accuracy is an issue. SP fires more often, so a single miss doesn't hurt the overall buff over time as much as FS missing, as you are without it's damage buff for longer times. Having both is always a good idea, as you are more likely to cap out, and you'll have more of a buffer against misses.|
Originally Posted by Weatherby Goode
He's got two Kins teamed up. With FSx2 every 8 seconds or so, there really is no great need for Siphon Power in this circumstance.
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Also, FS *can't* be used every 8s or so. Recharge cap is 500% (in other words, divide base recharge by 5.) FS's base recharge is 60s, so the minimum recharge you could have on it is 12s. Even with two kins, that level of recharge would be difficult to achieve. That also doesn't take into account the 2.17s activation time.
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You've done your math wrong.| Unless I'm doing my math wrong, FS (against a single target) will provide the same amount of +dam as SP, assuming capped recharge. |
Siphon Power does +25%. Period. No if, ands, or buts.
Fulcrum Shift does +50% plus +25% times the number of targets in the AoE that you're within range of. With only a single target, it would do +75%, which makes it equivalent to three stacked Siphon Powers. Fulcrum Shift's buffs also last 50% longer than Siphon Power's.
IMO, post FS, Siphon Power's only redeeming quality is the extra -damage... which depends on your build and team whether or not that would be useful against an AV (IIRC, don't AVs resist -damage anyways?)
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
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Not any more than standard enemies do. -damage is resisted based on the target's resistance. This is an issue since many enemies' highest resistance is to the same type of damage that they deal, and that some AVs have sizable resistances. It's no problem for a kineticist with both siphon power and fulcrum shift though.
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Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
IIRC, don't AVs resist -damage anyways?
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Which against AV after the initial hit, which general around an AV mob, only goes to the tank and possibly a scrapper, and thats if the enemies aren't dead, especially on a mob like that where the blaster likes to nuke them etc. Basically I wouldn't count much on the "extra enemies".|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
You've done your math wrong.
Siphon Power does +25%. Period. No if, ands, or buts. Fulcrum Shift does +50% plus +25% times the number of targets in the AoE that you're within range of. With only a single target, it would do +75%, which makes it equivalent to three stacked Siphon Powers. Fulcrum Shift's buffs also last 50% longer than Siphon Power's. IMO, post FS, Siphon Power's only redeeming quality is the extra -damage... which depends on your build and team whether or not that would be useful against an AV (IIRC, don't AVs resist -damage anyways?) |
Even then, the most i've seen survive the alpha long enough is a one other boss in an AV mob, which is usually picked off fairly quickly. So during an AV battle, you're looking at 50% from the pbaoe defender, 25% off the AV, 40% off the controller pbaoe, and 20% off its AV, that's 135% damage buff. Leaving 70% open to buff, granted you'll be getting close to stacking if you keep the perma SB on and keep your siphon speeds up. But, there are so many other uses for SP, including random bosses, which you wouldn't want to waste a full FS on, again debuffing the AV's damage, which especially VS higher level AVs becomes noticeable, plus misses. It also makes a great pulling power that causes extremely minor aggro.
The big problem I have with SP and FS both more than anything, is that they don't take any IO sets :/. They need to come up with a generic IO set for powers like this so we can get some acc/end/rech etc IOs we can put in them
, same with things like disruption arrow, sonic siphon etc.But yes I would never skip Siphon Power. Besides, it has a pretty sweet animation, especially if you buff up its colors :P
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Try to get both. Siphon Power is worth it. One should not always depend on others...a very important lesson in life lol. Kins are clicky so you and your buds will not always have enough time to focus on debuffing him. One or two of you will be focusing on mezzing, draining, siphon speedin', immob, damagin', healing...so don't always think that you all will be hitting FS at the same time or all the time. Things can EASILY go wrong...esp if you deal with some phasing Av's or Heroes.
Hey all,
So I'm playing a Fire/Kin as a part of a team (DB/WP Scrapper and a Kin/Dark Fender) so I am wondering as I level up, and since I will always have SB on me (from the Kin/Dark) will I want to bother with Siphon Speed or Power since I will have Transf and FS soon enough?
I know they are "debuffs" but once I have such constant to the buffs will I want to use them at all?