So why not just give Martial Arts all the animations of Super Strength. Then you'd have Super Strength Scrappers.
Obviously, it's not about Rage or numbers. It's about concepts! So, what they need to do to satisfy the "I need a super strength scrapper for concept" crowd, is to give Martial Arts more alternate animations which look like Super Strength's animations! 
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I'd love to see more animation variants for powers over seeing Scrappers get SS.
Quote:
He would agree, but still prefers Scrappers, and probably would not play a villain.
|
Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
Does he realize he can play a Brute in going Rogue, blueside, and have Super Strength.
He likes Scrappers; due to playing one before, and the 'consistant' damage they do. 1) He sounds like he'll get bored anyway. Yes, eventually. Or burned out from grinding. 2) Explain to him that the Hulk is a Brute. |
Quote:
If he starts in Praetoria, he can go his entire career as a hero-Brute, and never once be a villain.
|
Originally Posted by Umbra_NA
He would agree, but still prefers Scrappers, and probably would not play a villain.
|
Quote:
There are plenty that equal, but plenty that exceed? I dont know about that. The Cosmic Beings(for the most part), sure. I think it would be equally ridiculous if he tore Galactus, Thanos or Odin in half.|
Originally Posted by Andferne
Gods in comics is a very loose term. Especially Ares. There are plenty of beings out there that are equal to and exceed majority of the Gods in the Marvel universe.
|
I assume he'd not even think about going near Living Tribunal or one of The Celestials, or they'd just rub him out. But after stuff like OMD, I never can tell.
"And I swear to effing god, that community is .01% nethergoat-level smart and 99.99% completely fascinating varieties of turd-licking idiots" -Talen Lee
Ok, nice a slow explanation here:
The biggest reason Scrappers don't have SS is because their AT modifier on damage buffs means Rage would be a 100% damage buff, easily permanent with just SOs. Scrappers already have the highest melee damage modifier in the game, and factor crits into that, and you've got a pretty good picture of why the set won't be ported to Scrappers unchanged.
Of course, someone might say that if it's OP on Scrappers it's OP on Tankers/Brutes, but you need to remember those ATs only get 80% damage bonus out of Rage, Tankers do relatively piss-poor damage, and Brutes need to maintain high levels of Fury to keep pace with Scrappers.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by macskull
Ok, nice a slow explanation here:
The biggest reason Scrappers don't have SS is because their AT modifier on damage buffs means Rage would be a 100% damage buff, easily permanent with just SOs. Scrappers already have the highest melee damage modifier in the game, and factor crits into that, and you've got a pretty good picture of why the set won't be ported to Scrappers unchanged. Of course, someone might say that if it's OP on Scrappers it's OP on Tankers/Brutes, but you need to remember those ATs only get 80% damage bonus out of Rage, Tankers do relatively piss-poor damage, and Brutes need to maintain high levels of Fury to keep pace with Scrappers. |
Be well, people of CoH.
I don't follow. Care to explain?
(Wait, should I change my post to say "lol this superhero can't do this" because it seems to be what this thread has turned into?)
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Scrapper SS Footstomp Burst: 1.42*62.562 = 88.838 base damage
With double stacked rage (200%) and ED capped enhancement (95%) = 350.91
Base recharge 20 seconds
Scrapper Claws Spin Burst: 1.58*62.562 = 98.848 base damage
With double stacked followup (75%) and ED capped enhancement (95%) = 266.89
Base recharge 9.2 seconds
Scrapper Claws Eviscerate Burst: 1.99*62.562 = 124.5 base damage
With double stacked followup (75%) and ED capped enhancement (95%) = 336.15
SS has one aoe that does damage. Claws also has Eviscerate and Shockwave.
SS has the rage crash to deal with. Claws doesn't.
Footstomp has a 15' radius. Spin's is 8'.
I can chain fu, spin, eviscerate in a bit under 6 seconds on average hitting 7 and 3 targets respectively for the aoes. (It's usually higher, but I'll be nice.)
We'll say footstomp hits 9 of 10.
Total damage output without crits if the SS user has footstomp down to 6 seconds? What's that... 233% total recharge in Footstomp? That's doable. 350.91*9 = 3158.19 total damage output.
Claws total aoe output for the same period? 7*266.89 + 3*336.15 = 2876.68
Now let's add crits.
FS: 3158.19*1.075 = 3395.05
Spin+Evis: 1868.23*1.075 + 1008.45*1.15 = 3168.06
A 200 point difference when I'm being very nice about how many I actually hit with spin/evis AND we're completely ignoring the no damage output time of the rage crash for DOUBLE stacked rage. Edit: AND we're completely ignoring shockwave.
For the last farking time, a direct port of super strength would not be overpowered.
Be well, people of CoH.
No, mister macskull. This thread is still about giving Scrappers Super Strength. 
I disagree, however. That is far too conservative. Give us War Mace, Battle Axe, Ice Melee, Ice Armor, Stone Melee, Stone Armor, Energy melee, Energy Aura, Ninjitsu, and whatever else we may be missing.
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
Quote:
You dont think that "Give scrappers SS" has been covered enough times? |
Originally Posted by macskull
(Wait, should I change my post to say "lol this superhero can't do this" because it seems to be what this thread has turned into?)
|
(Yes, you should. I want to know what you think. Giving scrappers SS is not a "war" that can be "won" by spamming the forums with terrible "herp derp u geiv scrappers SS nao" threads. Sets will get proliferated when the Devs decide to do it. Look at how many posts there have been about female pet models for masterminds for proof of my point.)
"And I swear to effing god, that community is .01% nethergoat-level smart and 99.99% completely fascinating varieties of turd-licking idiots" -Talen Lee
Quote:
I want a Fire Blast/Willpower Mastermind.
|
Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
No, mister macskull. This thread is still about giving Scrappers Super Strength.
I disagree, however. That is far too conservative. Give us War Mace, Battle Axe, Ice Melee, Ice Armor, Stone Melee, Stone Armor, Energy melee, Energy Aura, Ninjitsu, and whatever else we may be missing. |
Quote:
I'll trade you one for a sonic resonance/force field scrapper.
|
Originally Posted by Postagulous
I want a Fire Blast/Willpower Mastermind.
|
"And I swear to effing god, that community is .01% nethergoat-level smart and 99.99% completely fascinating varieties of turd-licking idiots" -Talen Lee
No matter how many times I hear these "I can hit 38 bazillion mobs with 3 feet cones as a smooth attack chain that doesn't waste even a millisecond positioning" claims, I've never seen it ingame nor seen any video showing that. Guess I just don't play with the cool crowd !
For that matter, chaining FU -> Spin -> Evis on a standing still target already takes more than 6 seconds, and nobody's going to have perma 2x FU as, well, the way FU works is that you have to hit an enemy first (and 0s travel time doesn't exist, unless you've got a pocket tanker herding mobs to you standing still).
Everything can look great on paper when you use arbitrary values as hard numbers. Somehow, these paper builds never seem to reach the statistical comparison topics based on actual gameplay (i.e., kill inf/defeats per minute).
Quote:
<eyeroll>|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
No matter how many times I hear these "I can hit 38 bazillion mobs with 3 feet cones as a smooth attack chain that doesn't waste even a millisecond positioning" claims, I've never seen it ingame nor seen any video showing that. Guess I just don't play with the cool crowd !
For that matter, chaining FU -> Spin -> Evis on a standing still target already takes more than 6 seconds, and nobody's going to have perma 2x FU as, well, the way FU works is that you have to hit an enemy first (and 0s travel time doesn't exist, unless you've got a pocket tanker herding mobs to you standing still). Everything can look great on paper when you use arbitrary values as hard numbers. Somehow, these paper builds never seem to reach the statistical comparison topics based on actual gameplay (i.e., kill inf/defeats per minute). |
Arcanatime for fu, spin, eviscerate, repeat:
1.056+2.64+2.508 = 6.204
With 5 sets of LotG on top of enhanced accuracy, do you really think I'm going to miss more than 5% of the time especially after I start taking on 10 and 20% tohit buffs? FU's buff lasts 10 seconds. That chain takes 6.204. You're at 9.9 when you fire off the second eviscerate. That's doublestacked.
I guess enemies don't run into melee range in this game now, Nihilii? So much positioning is needed when you're completely surrounded by a spawn of x8 while solo. Especially when you're abusing the CLOS.
But I see you're going to ignore doublestacked rage's complete damage downtime as well. Bravo. 60 up and 10 down. Hell, that's only 1/7th of the time that SS's best DPS comes from sands of mu, the staff and the wand. "well, I can time my rage crashes to happen between spawns!!!" Wow, really? Sounds like that will take a hell of a lot more out of your damage output than me hitting tab, follow, attack.
EDIT: But hey, I'm curious, what kind of inf/minute should I be getting from paper mission to hang with the big boys?
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Majority of the Gods in Marvel are on that same level as Ares, if not below. With a few exceptions such as Thor, Hercules (technically not a God), Odin, Zeus etc. Let's take the rest of the Asgard Gods for example. Baldur, the Warriors Three, Heimdall, Sif, etc are all far below Thor. Save Heimdall none of those above come close to Ares in strength level. So yes save for a select few there are plenty of beings out there that are far more powerful than Marvel's typical God.|
Originally Posted by maggotface
There are plenty that equal, but plenty that exceed? I dont know about that. The Cosmic Beings(for the most part), sure. I think it would be equally ridiculous if he tore Galactus, Thanos or Odin in half.
I assume he'd not even think about going near Living Tribunal or one of The Celestials, or they'd just rub him out. But after stuff like OMD, I never can tell. |
You mentioned Galactus, well Sentry has faced off against him. He was said to stalemate him. Was it ever on panel? No, but it was a stated reference. I have not doubt it was a weakened (Hungry) Galactus, but even then that is still a feat. Of course there are a lot more ridiculous feats out there for him as well.
Quote:
See, all of that doesnt really "fly right" with me. He got a dose of the "enhanced" version of the super soldier serum that made cap. america. How "enhanced" was it? Did they grind up the Infinity Gems and put in there? He's Marvel's Superboy Prime, and nothing good ever went on with Superboy Prime.
|
Originally Posted by Andferne
Majority of the Gods in Marvel are on that same level as Ares, if not below. With a few exceptions such as Thor, Hercules (technically not a God), Odin, Zeus etc. Let's take the rest of the Asgard Gods for example. Baldur, the Warriors Three, Heimdall, Sif, etc are all far below Thor. Save Heimdall none of those above come close to Ares in strength level. So yes save for a select few there are plenty of beings out there that are far more powerful than Marvel's typical God.
You mentioned Galactus, well Sentry has faced off against him. He was said to stalemate him. Was it ever on panel? No, but it was a stated reference. I have not doubt it was a weakened (Hungry) Galactus, but even then that is still a feat. Of course there are a lot more ridiculous feats out there for him as well. |
"And I swear to effing god, that community is .01% nethergoat-level smart and 99.99% completely fascinating varieties of turd-licking idiots" -Talen Lee
I just read up on Sentry as I had no idea who he was. Made me damn glad that I quit reading Marvel ages ago.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Hallelujah, lol. Do people who post here even play these sets? I completely agree with you bill, and judging by the many posts who claim SS would be 'overpowered', I can only guess that they've never played other sets like claws, which is an absolute beast in both single target and aoe damage. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Scrapper SS Footstomp Burst: 1.42*62.562 = 88.838 base damage
With double stacked rage (200%) and ED capped enhancement (95%) = 350.91 Base recharge 20 seconds Scrapper Claws Spin Burst: 1.58*62.562 = 98.848 base damage With double stacked followup (75%) and ED capped enhancement (95%) = 266.89 Base recharge 9.2 seconds Scrapper Claws Eviscerate Burst: 1.99*62.562 = 124.5 base damage With double stacked followup (75%) and ED capped enhancement (95%) = 336.15 SS has one aoe that does damage. Claws also has Eviscerate and Shockwave. SS has the rage crash to deal with. Claws doesn't. Footstomp has a 15' radius. Spin's is 8'. I can chain fu, spin, eviscerate in a bit under 6 seconds on average hitting 7 and 3 targets respectively for the aoes. (It's usually higher, but I'll be nice.) We'll say footstomp hits 9 of 10. Total damage output without crits if the SS user has footstomp down to 6 seconds? What's that... 233% total recharge in Footstomp? That's doable. 350.91*9 = 3158.19 total damage output. Claws total aoe output for the same period? 7*266.89 + 3*336.15 = 2876.68 Now let's add crits. FS: 3158.19*1.075 = 3395.05 Spin+Evis: 1868.23*1.075 + 1008.45*1.15 = 3168.06 A 200 point difference when I'm being very nice about how many I actually hit with spin/evis AND we're completely ignoring the no damage output time of the rage crash for DOUBLE stacked rage. Edit: AND we're completely ignoring shockwave. For the last farking time, a direct port of super strength would not be overpowered. |
It's also amazing to me that so many simply disregard the rage crash as if it was nothing. Ten seconds of impotence every two minutes, gets really annoying on a damage dealing AT, and the 25% end crash every two minutes, that can't be mitigated by slotting and hits all at once, is a major pain in the ***.
Quote:
Marvel isnt *all* bad. People (myself included) just tend to highlight the bad things instead of the good things. Marvel has some good stuff going. I have some hope of them doing good things with Thunderbolts, for example.
|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I just read up on Sentry as I had no idea who he was. Made me damn glad that I quit reading Marvel ages ago.
|
"And I swear to effing god, that community is .01% nethergoat-level smart and 99.99% completely fascinating varieties of turd-licking idiots" -Talen Lee
Quote:
Just ran +4 councils no bosses mish and it looks like around 270K a minute on my claws/sr|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
EDIT: But hey, I'm curious, what kind of inf/minute should I be getting from paper mission to hang with the big boys?
|
Edit: 425K on my fire/sd - +4 councils no bosses and 330K for my sd/ss
ohhhh and about .005k on my bs/inv
Quote:
I've never been a fan of the Sentry. To me he is a lot like Rulk (Red Hulk) a whole lot of bad writing.
|
Originally Posted by maggotface
See, all of that doesnt really "fly right" with me. He got a dose of the "enhanced" version of the super soldier serum that made cap. america. How "enhanced" was it? Did they grind up the Infinity Gems and put in there? He's Marvel's Superboy Prime, and nothing good ever went on with Superboy Prime.
|
Quote:
I like that comparison a lot.
|
Originally Posted by Andferne
I've never been a fan of the Sentry. To me he is a lot like Rulk (Red Hulk) a whole lot of bad writing.
|
"And I swear to effing god, that community is .01% nethergoat-level smart and 99.99% completely fascinating varieties of turd-licking idiots" -Talen Lee
Quote:
Got 200k/min at +4/x8 w/bosses and 250k/min at +4/x8 w/o bosses on my claws/sr.|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Just ran +4 councils no bosses mish and it looks like around 270K a minute on my claws/sr
Edit: 425K on my fire/sd - +4 councils no bosses and 330K for my sd/ss ohhhh and about .005k on my bs/inv |
So as expected, shield users win again.
Someone have an SS/SR brute they can test with?
Be well, people of CoH.
Gods in comics is a very loose term. Especially Ares. There are plenty of beings out there that are equal to and exceed majority of the Gods in the Marvel universe.