Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Duncan_Frost
After reading yet another of the moan'n'groan threads on these forums as regards Tanker vs. Scrapper survivability, I had a bit of an idea: tweak the caps for certain powers and ATs so that they'll always have the potential to be better than anyone else at it.
Case in point: Super Speed. With a couple of IOs, it's outstripped in speed terms by Super Leap and Teleport. Why are these people who are supposed to be able to move faster than the human eye being outstripped by some dude with a trampoline? So let's make Super Speeders the quickest guys in the game by upping the speed cap if you're running it. This means that a speeder will always outstrip a leaper or teleporter, while still sacrificing his vertical manuverability. This could toggle off if they run any other travel power like leaping at the same time. Another case: well-built Scrappers can tank exactly as well as Tanks can, while still having better damage. So let's make Tanks the best damn tanks in the game, by increasing their aggro cap. A scrapper would only be able to heard the old aggro cap (12, I think?) while a tanker could have as many as 25 (or so) dudes pounding on him. Here's another idea: increase the damage cap for certain damage types depending on powerset. If you're a fire melee scrapper, you get an increase the damage cap for fire attacks, but keep the old one for all other types. I think this will remove a bit of the 'homogenisation' that's happening in game, where the powersets are starting to seem a bit similar, or a powerset is completely outstripped by another one that can do the same thing better. Thoughts?  |
I find it difficult to believe that a well built scrapper can tank as well as an equally invested in Tank personally.
Still, wouldn't be adverse to upping the Aggro Cap for tanks if it was possible to do on an AT by AT basis.
Just two points for me.
First, Castle already indicated run speed doesn't have much room to go faster.
I would be concerned about the damage cap part with no way to balance out. For blasters, what is more: energy or fire? AR or archery? Does my /dark def do more than my /ice def or my /psi def? Where do secondary effects come into play?
Quote:
Oh yes, I agree a Tank does have some tools that make him better (bigger HP pool etc.) but there's not a ton of difference between, for example, a soft-capped Scrapper and a soft-capped Tanker, other than the Tanker lacking damage.|
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
I find it difficult to believe that a well built scrapper can tank as well as an equally invested in Tank personally.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PennyPA
Just two points for me.
First, Castle already indicated run speed doesn't have much room to go faster. |
Quote:
| I would be concerned about the damage cap part with no way to balance out. For blasters, what is more: energy or fire? AR or archery? Does my /dark def do more than my /ice def or my /psi def? Where do secondary effects come into play? |
~union4lyfe~
Quote:
Okay, let's see how this goes.|
Originally Posted by Duncan_Frost
After reading yet another of the moan'n'groan threads on these forums as regards Tanker vs. Scrapper survivability, I had a bit of an idea: tweak the caps for certain powers and ATs so that they'll always have the potential to be better than anyone else at it.
|
Quote:
| Case in point: Super Speed. With a couple of IOs, it's outstripped in speed terms by Super Leap and Teleport. Why are these people who are supposed to be able to move faster than the human eye being outstripped by some dude with a trampoline? So let's make Super Speeders the quickest guys in the game by upping the speed cap if you're running it. This means that a speeder will always outstrip a leaper or teleporter, while still sacrificing his vertical manuverability. This could toggle off if they run any other travel power like leaping at the same time. |
Super Jump can't match the straight-line speed of Super Speed without some help, and even then, it is at the cost of additional slots that the super speedster wouldn't have to be spending on their travel power.
Quote:
| Another case: well-built Scrappers can tank exactly as well as Tanks can, while still having better damage. So let's make Tanks the best damn tanks in the game, by increasing their aggro cap. A scrapper would only be able to heard the old aggro cap (12, I think?) while a tanker could have as many as 25 (or so) dudes pounding on him. |
Quote:
| Here's another idea: increase the damage cap for certain damage types depending on powerset. If you're a fire melee scrapper, you get an increase the damage cap for fire attacks, but keep the old one for all other types. |
Quote:
|
I think this will remove a bit of the 'homogenisation' that's happening in game, where the powersets are starting to seem a bit similar, or a powerset is completely outstripped by another one that can do the same thing better. Thoughts?
|
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
Actually the biggest, and to my mind most important, difference is Gauntlet.
|
Duncan_Frost missed something: Oh yes, I agree a Tank does have some tools that make him better (bigger HP pool etc.) but there's not a ton of difference between, for example, a soft-capped Scrapper and a soft-capped Tanker, other than the Tanker lacking damage. |
Dec out.
Quote:
I wasn't quite clear on the suggestion too, so wasn't sure how to reply. Now that I read it again and your reply, I am still concerned on damage being balanced by other things like the secondary effects. Fire already does more damage with DoT. Energy has KB effects. If you raise the cap, does KB go down or the DoT? |
Originally Posted by Duncan_Frost
I'm not sure what you'd mean here. If you were an Energy blaster, you'd have a higher damage cap on Energy damage, but not Fire damage (or anything else). If you were a Fire blaster, you'd have a higher damage cap on Fire damage, but not Energy damage (or anything else).
|
Also, blasters are able to choose 2 attacks via primary and secondary that could be different or the same in some cases. But what about a stalker or scrapper who only gets one set to work with? (I am ignoring APP/PPP since those can be changed or not taken at all).
Another AT would be MM's. Can I specialize in bots or mercs? I am already soloing AVs with my MM's, so raising my cap would just make me clear missions faster.
Again, I admit I could maybe be completely misunderstanding your suggestion.
One thing I've been thinking about for Defenders is that their primary could be differencated from Corrupters and Controllers and MMs by giving 2 or 3 powers in each set a non-stacking "feedback" buff.
This would be something like a FF defender getting a 6% defense boost from casting one of the shields (typed the same way) or a Rad defender getting a relatively small damage and resistance buff (8% apiece?) from casting Enervating Field. Each set would have 2 or 3 such powers which gives the defender a bit of edge over other characters with Support sets.
Buffers wouldn't need to be limited to having them in ally buffs, so they could use some of them solo as well.
Having seen what a speed-specced Shield/SS tanker can do, namely outstrip the team's Electric blaster for damage, I find your statement of Scrapper Damage shaky.
Yes. A Scrapper can soft cap his defense and tank just about as well as a Tanker! But a Tanker can slot for Damage and dish out similar numbers to a scrapper, as well. Or, by slotting for speed, use against all odds and Double-Stacked rage to make the scrapper look physically weak.
Yes. There are specific builds which can do "As good" as other base ATs. But those ATs can turn around and do the exact same thing with specific IO Builds.
-Rachel-
Quote:
Both Super Speed and Super Jump can get you to their respective caps with very little efforts. But the running cap is already higher than the jumping cap, and the game can't handle players running much faster.|
Originally Posted by Duncan_Frost
Case in point: Super Speed. With a couple of IOs, it's outstripped in speed terms by Super Leap and Teleport. Why are these people who are supposed to be able to move faster than the human eye being outstripped by some dude with a trampoline? So let's make Super Speeders the quickest guys in the game by upping the speed cap if you're running it. This means that a speeder will always outstrip a leaper or teleporter, while still sacrificing his vertical manuverability.
|
I'm also curious how someone running really fast is supposed to reach a location faster than someone who teleports there instantaneously?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Duncan_Frost
Here's another idea: increase the damage cap for certain damage types depending on powerset. If you're a fire melee scrapper, you get an increase the damage cap for fire attacks, but keep the old one for all other types.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I'm not sure if this would really balance out. A split-damage-type attack set (such as Dark Melee, which has a lot of Neg/Smashing damage attacks) would be worse off at the damage cap than a single-damage-type attack set, such as Broadsword and Katana. Also, I'm not sure if an AT-based cap can be changed by the powerset choice. I just don't know if the databases are set up that way.
|
To put it in perspective, Castle spends his day working with Excel. That's where all the power information is: simply an Excel sheet. The data entered into Excel is translated into the proper format for the game, which then uses the information to decide what powers do, what the caps are, etc. Castle can't just swap a few values around in his spreadsheet to make a Fiery Melee Scrapper's Fire Damage cap be higher. It simply doesn't work like that.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
After reading yet another of the moan'n'groan threads on these forums as regards Tanker vs. Scrapper survivability, I had a bit of an idea: tweak the caps for certain powers and ATs so that they'll always have the potential to be better than anyone else at it.
Case in point: Super Speed. With a couple of IOs, it's outstripped in speed terms by Super Leap and Teleport. Why are these people who are supposed to be able to move faster than the human eye being outstripped by some dude with a trampoline? So let's make Super Speeders the quickest guys in the game by upping the speed cap if you're running it. This means that a speeder will always outstrip a leaper or teleporter, while still sacrificing his vertical manuverability. This could toggle off if they run any other travel power like leaping at the same time.
Another case: well-built Scrappers can tank exactly as well as Tanks can, while still having better damage. So let's make Tanks the best damn tanks in the game, by increasing their aggro cap. A scrapper would only be able to heard the old aggro cap (12, I think?) while a tanker could have as many as 25 (or so) dudes pounding on him.
Here's another idea: increase the damage cap for certain damage types depending on powerset. If you're a fire melee scrapper, you get an increase the damage cap for fire attacks, but keep the old one for all other types.
I think this will remove a bit of the 'homogenisation' that's happening in game, where the powersets are starting to seem a bit similar, or a powerset is completely outstripped by another one that can do the same thing better.
Thoughts?
~union4lyfe~