City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Cremate or Incinerate fm/sd

BrokenPrey

By BrokenPrey,
Posted on: 2010-06-10 17:39 in Scrappers

 

Posted

nevermind

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtsorm View Post
I have 2 builds IM looking at (thanks to those that helped me)

One has Cremate

Recharge 3.09 696.2 Damage (fire/Smash) with build up at level 8 I took it

The other build has Incinerate

Recharge 3.83 with 760.1 Damage (fire dot) Taken at level 30.

I have Sands of Mu, Nemesis Staff and Blackwind so lower levels shouldnt be much of an issue if I go back.

Any thoughts. Tryin to decide which one to get. Otherwise the builds are the same
except 1 has SS and 1 has SJ
Incinerate is the better attack I asked this question before myself

Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hejtmane View Post
Incinerate is the better attack I asked this question before myself
Yes, Incinerate has better EPA, DPA, and DPS. The downside is that it's a DoT, so if it's burst damage you want then Cremate wins.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
Yes, Incinerate has better EPA, DPA, and DPS. The downside is that it's a DoT, so if it's burst damage you want then Cremate wins.
this...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
this...
Should you get both as part of your attack chain, if available?

 

Posted

If you could fit them both then yes...
its 1 and 3 in your best attack list

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
If you could fit them both then yes...
its 1 and 3 in your best attack list
More like 1 and 2

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
If you could fit them both then yes...
its 1 and 3 in your best attack list
Gotcha. Too bad I absolutely hate the animation for incinerate. Was looking for an excuse to drop it.

 

Posted

Curious, what is considered the best attack chain for FM anyway?

 

Posted

Incin>GFS>Cremate>repeat

You need quite a bit of rech in GFS though, but the other two attacks don't need that much.

 

Posted

nevermind

 

Posted

There are several fire chains that all produce good damage. Search through a few pages back and I think Werner drew them all out somewhere.

 

Posted

top chain is Incin(146%)>GFS(237%)>Cremate(88%) = ~190 DPS

Incin(72%)>GFS(133%)>Cremate(24%)>Firesword(0%) = ~180 DPS

Incin(144%)>Scorch(74%)>Cremate(89%)>Scorch = ~170 DPS

There are others, but these are the most used. The ~170 DPS chain is the best for EPS, and it also benefits from having the Hecatomb proc in Scorch, which would increase it's DPS.

Leveling, I ran the 170 DPS chain, and ended up going with the top chain because I found that I liked GFS's burst damage too much to part with it.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frosticus View Post
Incin>GFS>Cremate>repeat

You need quite a bit of rech in GFS though, but the other two attacks don't need that much.
That is only marginally better than Cremate>FireSword>Incinerate, which is what I use on mine. It needs alot less recharge than the one with GFS and is superior in terms of EPS

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
That is only marginally better than Cremate>FireSword>Incinerate, which is what I use on mine. It needs alot less recharge than the one with GFS and is superior in terms of EPS
Yeah, that's a good one too. I recommended it to someone recently. They didn't have enough recharge to pull off the top DPS chain, but weren't satisfied with the DPS of the Incinerate -> Scorch -> Cremate -> Scorch chain. Incinerate -> Cremate -> Fire Sword was just the ticket, doing higher DPS with the same endurance efficiency (DPE). The DPS is pretty much the same as Incinerate -> Cremate -> Greater Fire Sword -> Fire Sword, which is to say not far behind the top chain, plus it saves you an attack.

We don't recommend it much for some reason. I'm thinking that most people either settle for low recharge and the EPS 3-attack chain, or the DPS 4 attack chain, or they go for maximum recharge and want to run the maximum DPS chain. Maybe we're just not seeing many people with high but not extreme recharge who want great DPS but aren't chasing maximum DPS. For them, though, Incinerate -> Cremate -> Fire Sword is probably the ideal chain.

"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

nevermind

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtsorm View Post
So Incinerate...GFS...Cremate is the best chain?

What type of Global Recharge do I need?
I put the recharge requirements for the chain in my prior post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
top chain is Incin(146%)>GFS(237%)>Cremate(88%) = ~190 DPS
The percentiles are total recharge, so add your global recharge to the recharge enhancement you have in the power to get the total.

The build you posted does not have enough recharge in GFS to run the top chain, as it only has 188.75% total. Even switching the Mako's to Cremate and putting 5 CI (minus Dam/End) plus a Recharge IO in GFS only nets you 218.91% in GFS.

Without looking too deeply, I would make a guess that you'd need to invest in some Purple sets to boost your recharge high enough.

As far as the rest of the build, AD could really benefit from more Membranes to raise your DDR. Tough being just a mule for the Steadfast loses you a nice chunck of S/L resist which really helps with attacks that slip through.

 

Posted

So, what kind of rech do you need to run Cremate>FireSword>Incinerate?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandock View Post
So, what kind of rech do you need to run Cremate>FireSword>Incinerate?
Here is what you need

Incinerate(+204% recharge,3.3 seconds)
Cremate (+134%,3.432 seconds)
Fire Sword (+69%, 3.56 seconds)

"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps

 

Posted

nevermind

 

Posted

nevermind

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey View Post
Here is what you need

Incinerate(+204% recharge,3.3 seconds)
Cremate (+134%,3.432 seconds)
Fire Sword (+69%, 3.56 seconds)
Hm... looks like with my current build that even if I switch over to Hecatombs in Incinerate I'm only able to get it to about 184% rech in it. Guess I'm sticking with Incinerate-Scorch-Cremate-Scorch for now.

 

Posted

Made a couple tweeks. With hasten up you should be able to use the top chain. This build will require the gladiator's armor proc though, which is insanely expensive at the moment. I used the second attack chain for the longest time until I was able to upgrade. Hope this helps.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Technology Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Mako-Acc/Dmg(46), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(5), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(5)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 4: True Grit -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(17)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(7)
Level 8: Build Up -- GSFC-Build%(A), GSFC-ToHit(9), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(9), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(13), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(13), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(17)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(15)
Level 16: Boxing -- Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(A), Amaze-Stun(25), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(34), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(39), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(48)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Oblit-Dmg(19), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(21), Oblit-%Dam(21), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(43)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(34), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(39), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(39)
Level 24: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Zephyr-Travel(25), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(27), Zephyr-ResKB(27)
Level 26: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(40), GA-3defTpProc(40)
Level 28: Weave -- HO:Enzym(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(29), LkGmblr-Def(42)
Level 30: Incinerate -- T'Death-Dam%(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), T'Death-Acc/Dmg(31), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(31), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(40), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Hectmb-Dmg(33), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(33), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(36), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(36), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Armgdn-Dam%(37)
Level 38: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 41: Char -- UbrkCons-Hold(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(42), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(43), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(45)
Level 44: Cremate -- Mako-Dam%(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Mako-Acc/Dmg(48), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(50), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(50), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 6: Ninja Run
------------
Set Bonuses:
Mako's Bite
(Fire Sword)

  • MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
  • 20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
  • 3% DamageBuff(All)
  • MezResist(Held) 3.3%
  • 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)
Luck of the Gambler
(Deflection)
  • 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 15.1 HP (1.12%) HitPoints
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Steadfast Protection
(Deflection)
  • 3% Defense(All)
Luck of the Gambler
(Battle Agility)
  • 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 15.1 HP (1.12%) HitPoints
  • 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control
(Build Up)
  • 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
  • 25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
  • 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
  • 2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing), 2.5% Defense(Ranged), 1.25% Defense(Energy), 1.25% Defense(Negative), 2.5% Defense(AoE), 1.25% Defense(Fire), 1.25% Defense(Cold)
Blessing of the Zephyr
(Super Speed)
  • 1.25% Defense(Ranged), 0.63% Defense(Energy), 0.63% Defense(Negative)
  • 1.88% Defense(AoE), 0.94% Defense(Fire), 0.94% Defense(Cold)
  • Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
Absolute Amazement
(Boxing)
  • 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
  • 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Obliteration
(Fire Sword Circle)
  • MezResist(Stun) 2.2%
  • 3% DamageBuff(All)
  • 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.88% Defense(Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Smashing)
Performance Shifter
(Stamina)
  • 5% JumpSpeed, 5% JumpHeight, 5% FlySpeed, 5% RunSpeed
  • 25.1 HP (1.87%) HitPoints
  • 2.5% (0.04 End/sec) Recovery
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
  • 3.13% Defense(AoE), 1.56% Defense(Fire), 1.56% Defense(Cold)
Luck of the Gambler
(Combat Jumping)
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Blessing of the Zephyr
(Combat Jumping)
  • 1.25% Defense(Ranged), 0.63% Defense(Energy), 0.63% Defense(Negative)
  • 1.88% Defense(AoE), 0.94% Defense(Fire), 0.94% Defense(Cold)
  • Knockback Protection (Mag -4)
Gladiator's Armor
(Tough)
  • 3% Defense(All)
Luck of the Gambler
(Weave)
  • 10% (0.56 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 15.1 HP (1.12%) HitPoints
Touch of Death
(Incinerate)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
  • 20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
  • MezResist(Held) 2.75%
  • 3.75% Defense(Melee), 1.88% Defense(Lethal), 1.88% Defense(Smashing)
Hecatomb
(Greater Fire Sword)
  • 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
  • 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Armageddon
(Shield Charge)
  • 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
  • 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 5% Resistance(Toxic)
Luck of the Gambler
(Phalanx Fighting)
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Unbreakable Constraint
(Char)
  • 4% (0.07 End/sec) Recovery
  • 2.52% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 15% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 10% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Mako's Bite
(Cremate)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 3.3%
  • 20.1 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
  • 3% DamageBuff(All)
  • MezResist(Held) 3.3%
  • 3.75% Defense(Ranged), 1.88% Defense(Energy), 1.88% Defense(Negative)
Luck of the Gambler
(Grant Cover)
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)




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"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - George Orwell

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Yeah, that's a good one too. I recommended it to someone recently. They didn't have enough recharge to pull off the top DPS chain, but weren't satisfied with the DPS of the Incinerate -> Scorch -> Cremate -> Scorch chain. Incinerate -> Cremate -> Fire Sword was just the ticket, doing higher DPS with the same endurance efficiency (DPE). The DPS is pretty much the same as Incinerate -> Cremate -> Greater Fire Sword -> Fire Sword, which is to say not far behind the top chain, plus it saves you an attack.
You recommended it to me a week or so ago, but I'm not sure I'm who you are thinking of. I have enough recharge for the GFS chains but not enough powers. My chain needed to include one of the "required" attacks given all the other stuff I wanted in my build. I think one of the nicest, and sometimes overlooked, things about the Incinerate -> Cremate -> Fire Sword chain is how few power selections it takes to get that good of a DPS chain.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
top chain is Incin(146%)>GFS(237%)>Cremate(88%) = ~190 DPS

Incin(72%)>GFS(133%)>Cremate(24%)>Firesword(0%) = ~180 DPS

Incin(144%)>Scorch(74%)>Cremate(89%)>Scorch = ~170 DPS

There are others, but these are the most used. The ~170 DPS chain is the best for EPS, and it also benefits from having the Hecatomb proc in Scorch, which would increase it's DPS.

Leveling, I ran the 170 DPS chain, and ended up going with the top chain because I found that I liked GFS's burst damage too much to part with it.
This is an old topic, but still interesting. I noticed your DPS for incin>scorch>cremate>scorch at 170. My FM/WP is hitting 183 DPS with that combo now.
Here's a link to my post about it:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=520