New Powers
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-08 02:55 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
There is a whole suggestions forum full of new powerset suggestions, including spears and shield melee. And shield melee? Really?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Galioth
I watched the latest video for Going Rouge, and I believe it was Ghost Falcon that said you guys lisson to your players. While I was woundering about some new powers How about adding in spears or shield melee. Does anyone else have ideas for new powers.
|
Shield Melee is never going to happen.
The most obvious reason is that it would lock you into ONE powerset combo, and the devs are never going to add a set that can only be used with one other set.
And if they let you take something besides Shield Defense for a secondary it would just be stupid. You have a shield that you hit people with....but you don't use it to protect yourself?
I have no problem with the idea of spears, but I don't expect to see it anytime in the next couple years.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Sheild melee could be awesome. Toons carry axes and other weapons that make repetitive attacks, so why not let it be a shield that people hit other people with? Ah yes..it might seem strange to see a shield melee/super reflexes scrapper or a SM/fire armor brute, but is it really all that strange? I think not when considering some of the other power combos available in the game. I see no reason to limit sheild offense to being available only with shield defense. That's just limited thinking by the powers that be.
Big discussion about it here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...shield+offense
@Joshua.
Well first off welcome to the forums. As others have noted there have been a LOT of suggestions for powersets made here. The best place to check is the suggestions forum, there have been several spear/polearm suggestion threads made so if you want to make up a suggested power list and post it go ahead, there are always people there who like to bicker and argue about things and while it's been done before it's not on the list of "suggestions people are utterly fed up with".
Shield Offense is a lot less likely. As C&E and Forefinger alluded to it's a little more controversial. However, if I recall correctly BaBs or Castle listed it as one of the sets that they wouldn't do along with dual archery and assault rifle defense.
EDIT: Ok, the quote was from BABs and was:
Quote:
No link I'm afraid, someone apparently had it in their sig for a while and that's screwing up Google's search (plus they've since removed it from their sig so no clue who it was).
| in the grand list of potential new powersets, Shield offense ranks only slightly higher than Assault Rifle defense or the oft-requested Dual Archery |
Quote:
Because a shield is a defensive implement first and foremost. |
Originally Posted by Forefinger_
Sheild melee could be awesome. Toons carry axes and other weapons that make repetitive attacks, so why not let it be a shield that people hit other people with?
|
"Axes and other weapons that make repetitive attacks" explains itself in the sentence.
They are WEAPONS. A shield is not a weapon. Some cultures had offensive uses for it, but the reason they carried them in the first place was to protect themselves from attack.
I'm sorry if you disagree with my opinion, but carrying a shield just to hit people with and not using it to protect yourself is just plain stupid.
The devs placing Shield Offense in the same category as Dual Archery and Assault Rifle Defense would seem to indicate that they agree with me.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Yeah? Well, I want broadsword defense! You can use a broadsword to parry attacks and such, so it only makes sense to make it a defensive set! I mean, almost all the broadsword models even come with a handguard. It's a guard! Guards block stuff! Defense! It makes sense!|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Because a shield is a defensive implement first and foremost.
|
Oh, and I'm not going to hit stuff with my sword. I want to hit them with my hands that are on fire! I don't want to be locked into sword melee just because I have the sword to defend myself. That wouldn't make any sense.
Waitasecond.... Broadsword melee actually has parry in it, a power that adds to your defense... imagine that.
And if I'm not mistaken, shield defense actually has an attack in it...
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
You can also take Trick Arrow without taking Archery as the 'offensive' powerset. The same argument could be made that a bow is an offensive tool. So how could you take the 'support' powerset of a bow without taking the offensive one?
I always went along with their (devs) explanation of why Shield Melee would not be allowed because they don't want to 'lock' you in to one powerset combo. However, once AR and DP were introduced for Defender/Corruptors, their explanation no longer made sense to me.
Shield Melee/Invincibility would be ridiculous, but Trick Arrow/Assault Rifle (or Dual Pistols) is okay? Hmm...
Currently on Virtue:
Jinrazuo - Crab Spider
RWZ All-Pylon Solo Run
Quote:
I dont know...shield melee could provide a small def buff/acc debuff(whatever it is) like DM/BS/Kat currently have...i could buy it.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Shield Melee is never going to happen.
The most obvious reason is that it would lock you into ONE powerset combo, and the devs are never going to add a set that can only be used with one other set. And if they let you take something besides Shield Defense for a secondary it would just be stupid. You have a shield that you hit people with....but you don't use it to protect yourself? . |
For the record im not a shield melee fanboi...id rather see street fighting with headbutts and some throws/grapples mixed in...or chain/whip melee...or better yet continue to port more melee sets around via power prolification mmm
Quote:
I can see your argument here and don't have an opinion either way on Shield Melee.|
Originally Posted by blueruckus
You can also take Trick Arrow without taking Archery as the 'offensive' powerset. The same argument could be made that a bow is an offensive tool. So how could you take the 'support' powerset of a bow without taking the offensive one?
I always went along with their (devs) explanation of why Shield Melee would not be allowed because they don't want to 'lock' you in to one powerset combo. However, once AR and DP were introduced for Defender/Corruptors, their explanation no longer made sense to me. Shield Melee/Invincibility would be ridiculous, but Trick Arrow/Assault Rifle (or Dual Pistols) is okay? Hmm... |
Personally I would never create and play one of those combinations you mentioned.
Trick Arrow - Dual Pistols ????
I suppose there could be a role-play concept, but If I was packin around pistols with unlimited ammo, why the heck would I need a bow? Its just not a combination I would play.
Having more powersets is a good idea, but what would be more cool to me would be to simply change shield charge into Shield throw. Having a Ranged Attack in a Melee set is not unusual and would eliminate the teleport effect which kinda bothers me. You have to suspend reality if your character is a "Natural" and if not, you have to ask yourself whether taking Teleport as a travel would make more sense. The "woes" of roleplay
The powerset I REALLY want to see is a Staff Melee set. In the last MMO I played, I was a Warden with a 2-handed staff. The whirling animations and martial artistry was very entertaining. What was even more fun was that I was a primary support class, but was able to stand toe-to-toe and beat things up.
Would love to see fancy Staff-swinging in this game
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
Have you looked at the arrows you're firing with Trick Arrow? Those ain't broadhead arrows you're using. Not fowling or frog crotch arrows, either.
|
Originally Posted by blueruckus
You can also take Trick Arrow without taking Archery as the 'offensive' powerset. The same argument could be made that a bow is an offensive tool. So how could you take the 'support' powerset of a bow without taking the offensive one?
|
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
They haven't said that we'll get a "spear melee" set. What they have said is that if they add it, it will be a general "polearm melee" set, where you can customize your weapon to things like spears or quarterstaves.
|
Originally Posted by Galioth
I watched the latest video for Going Rouge, and I believe it was Ghost Falcon that said you guys lisson to your players. While I was woundering about some new powers How about adding in spears or shield melee. Does anyone else have ideas for new powers.
|
Quote:
I would so make a Shield Melee / Broadsword defense scrapper.
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Yeah? Well, I want broadsword defense! You can use a broadsword to parry attacks and such, so it only makes sense to make it a defensive set! I mean, almost all the broadsword models even come with a handguard. It's a guard! Guards block stuff! Defense! It makes sense!
Oh, and I'm not going to hit stuff with my sword. I want to hit them with my hands that are on fire! I don't want to be locked into sword melee just because I have the sword to defend myself. That wouldn't make any sense. Waitasecond.... Broadsword melee actually has parry in it, a power that adds to your defense... imagine that. And if I'm not mistaken, shield defense actually has an attack in it... |
Quote:
How so? It's not like you were locked into Archery before those sets were proliferated. You could be Trick Arrow/Ice or Trick Arrow/Sonic before then. The main reason people paired it with Archery was to lessen the amount of redraw they had to deal with.|
Originally Posted by blueruckus
I always went along with their (devs) explanation of why Shield Melee would not be allowed because they don't want to 'lock' you in to one powerset combo. However, once AR and DP were introduced for Defender/Corruptors, their explanation no longer made sense to me. |
Quote:
| Shield Melee/Invincibility would be ridiculous, but Trick Arrow/Assault Rifle (or Dual Pistols) is okay? Hmm... |
You carry around this thing designed to protect you from harm and only use it as a weapon? That's like hitting someone with a football helmet instead of putting it on your head. It makes no sense at all.
I can explain Trick Arrow/Assault Rifle or Dual Pistols pretty easily. Any of the Trick Arrows could just as easily be a grenade. If you put that grenade on a stick you can shoot it with a bow farther than you could throw it. It makes logical sense that you could use a tool to give a thrown object more range. In this case the bow is less an offensive weapon and more a delivery system. It makes much less sense to use an object designed to protect you as a weapon and completely ignore it's intended purpose.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
Indeed, it makes no sense at all and therefore only an absolute idiot would assume that a Shield Melee set, were there one created, would be purely an attack set bereft of defensive abilities.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You carry around this thing designed to protect you from harm and only use it as a weapon? That's like hitting someone with a football helmet instead of putting it on your head. It makes no sense at all.
|
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Quote:
The Dev's have said the engine can't deal with a shield throw. The main issue is that it can't render the customised shield your character is carrying on the fly as a power. |
Originally Posted by Biospark
Having more powersets is a good idea, but what would be more cool to me would be to simply change shield charge into Shield throw.
|
Added to the fact that unless it were a magic boomerang shield it wouldn't come back and you'd not be able to use the rest of your defensive powers untill you go and pick it up.
Also... not sure kite shields are THAT aerodynamic. And you were talking about suspension of disbelief?
One of the things people should remember about new sets is the question: what will the addition of "set x" bring to the game that is new/inovative? While I see that some people would love some sets over others, in this instance, pole-arms would *probably* spawn more variety of toons and the ability to utilize different effects than shield melee. That is, using a shield as a weapon would unlikely provide so much variation over sword, mace, axe (proliferate plz) that it deserves an etirely new set. Yes, a shield can be used offensively and thus we have SC; yes, a sword has some defensive capabilities and thus we have parry/da.
As a digression, I'm really keen to know more of what kinetic melee is going to bring.
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
Quote:
Yeah, I knew that the limitation was something mechanical. |
Originally Posted by Diggis
The Dev's have said the engine can't deal with a shield throw. The main issue is that it can't render the customised shield your character is carrying on the fly as a power.
Added to the fact that unless it were a magic boomerang shield it wouldn't come back and you'd not be able to use the rest of your defensive powers untill you go and pick it up. Also... not sure kite shields are THAT aerodynamic. And you were talking about suspension of disbelief? |
The other thing they could do (which I understand is also not doable) would be to have the player's body animate thru the distance to the are of effect point. So it actually appears that you are going from point A to point B when using the attack.
Pathing, Animation syncing to variable distances between start and end points, Collision mechanics. Yikes !
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
I watched the latest video for Going Rouge, and I believe it was Ghost Falcon that said you guys lisson to your players. While I was woundering about some new powers How about adding in spears or shield melee. Does anyone else have ideas for new powers.