Less Endurance Usage for a Miss???
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-06-07 09:42 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Standard code rant, it's probably possible, but highly improbable that it'd ever be implemented. Since endurance is consumed when you click the power, code would have to check after the power finishes animating and then give you endurance back.|
Originally Posted by PowerStream
Has there been any serious discussion of having a miss cost less endurance? Is it even possible? I tried doing a search but didn't find anything related.
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Originally Posted by PowerStream
I just know there is nothing like having a streak of 4 misses and look up and my endurance is almost drained and the boss is still over half health.
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Originally Posted by PowerStream
Also can vet rewards be less end hogs?
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What would be the justification for the change? Taking roleplay out of the equation(even with RP I can't see it) there just doesn't seem to be any good reason to make this kind of change.|
Originally Posted by PowerStream
Has there been any serious discussion of having a miss cost less endurance?
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Pre-stamina there are several ways to control/supplement your end use and recovery. Post-stamina end use is no problem if you have slotted properly. There are also ways to get around taking stamina at all.
Your idea seems like it would be extra work for minimum unjustified gain. As Dechs said, slot attacks for ACC and End Reduc early and add Rech and Dam later as needed.
Aside from what's been said, how would it make sense?
If you're standing in front of me and I take a swing at you, I'm swinging just as hard if I hit you or miss you. And that's just talking about physical attacks. Energy or projectile? The energy is spent getting the attack out. And what about AOEs (player based, location based or targeted?) If I drop Rain of Fire on a completely empty area, is it free? What about if something runs into it, does it suddenly start costing END? I tend to drop ice patch (controller) on a corner or inside a door as things run toward me - does it cost END or not?
I see your points. I guess I just don't feel the pre-20 accuracy boost they put in a while back. I was playing my new elec melee/dark tank and at level 8 he was being pummelled by three minions. I had two secondary attacks(1 end 1 acc TO), 1 aoe aura(1 end enh) and 2 shields(each with 2 end red). I had just gotten the heal as well which with one TO recharge doesn't recharge fast enough to be helpful yet. Pretty sure that's how they were slotted anyway... He couldn't stand up to two minions and a lt. It was very discouraging to keep missing and faceplant because my shields would drop. Added in a blaster teamate to help kill them off faster and I would faceplant even faster because now there were more mobs pummelling me.
Now I have a spines/dark scrap that I love!! I know the dark set is end heavy and am used to dealing with it but it really felt like the tanks had a -acc or something. I have had quite a few toons lately that really felt end heavy compared to ones I've been playing for years. I'm not the only one either, a lot of my friends have said similar. Not to say it isn't always slotting but it's not like I've never slotted toons before.
As far as the vet power issue. You are correct the power becomes less useful closer to 50. But that is the problem, the power is more costly end wise during the early game when it is more likely to be used. And now as a 57 month vet I have three at my disposal. So I shouldn't use them because they were free? That seems a bit backwards to me.
I was only making a suggestion and even mentioned it may not be possible, it may not be practical either (I agree I swing just as hard at a baseball I miss as I do ones I hit), but what other things am I to do to reduce end usage? I don't run on any crazy settings either. I usually stay 0/0 until stamina at least.
Heck maybe I'm behind on slotting now that I think things through. But for the most part I slot 1 end red, 1-2 acc and 3 damage for most attacks (until IO sets). Have I been doing it all wrong this whole time? 
Well, at level 8, even a tank is squishy. Look at which shields you have running, and decide if you need them. Make sure you're not running sprint. That sort of thing.
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Well, Dark Armor Sucks, of course.|
Originally Posted by PowerStream
I see your points. I guess I just don't feel the pre-20 accuracy boost they put in a while back. I was playing my new elec melee/dark tank and at level 8 he was being pummelled by three minions.
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But seriously, all tanks are pretty squishy at low levels. They're like scrappers, but without damage, critical hits, and have a few more health points to compensate.
With IO sets, Dark Armor really has some of the best potential in the game.
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Originally Posted by PowerStream
As far as the vet power issue. You are correct the power becomes less useful closer to 50. ... So I shouldn't use them because they were free? That seems a bit backwards to me.
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Maybe they could make it cost less endurance to begin with, but right now, it's balanced. Make sure you get two or more enemies in the Sands of Mu cone. That really gets more bang for your buck.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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LOL I read your "Dark Armor Sucks" thread last week and was laughing at the fact people told you dark armor sucks. I often tank on my spines/dark. It isn't easy but it is definitely doable. |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Well, Dark Armor Sucks, of course.
But seriously, all tanks are pretty squishy at low levels. They're like scrappers, but without damage, critical hits, and have a few more health points to compensate. With IO sets, Dark Armor really has some of the best potential in the game. |
I guess that is the problem I was having. The few additional health points didn't offset the less damage and no crits. At least not yet. Don't think I deleted him yet. I know there is potential there. I just have to find it and pour caffeine into it!
But I picked out DA as a recent example but that isn't the only toon that seemed to have end issues lately. I say lately but really I mean the last couple of years. If I am struggling for end by 15 and I have slotted what I think is appropriate I usually delete the toon and go for a different combo. At this point I honestly don't know if it's just me not knowing how to slot the combos I'm trying or what.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to say you shouldn't use it. I'm saying that the devs had to limit its effectiveness somehow, or it would be a clear advantage in all levels of play, and even serve as an extra spot to put set IOs... a whole gamut of complaints arise.
Maybe they could make it cost less endurance to begin with, but right now, it's balanced. Make sure you get two or more enemies in the Sands of Mu cone. That really gets more bang for your buck. |
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Out of all the text, this sentence stands out the most to me... are you saying that you're comparing a level eight's abilities in comparison to characters you've been using for years, likely above level 40? Or, are you saying that you've been playing lots of mini-leveled characters and, all at once, it feels like things drain faster?
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Originally Posted by PowerStream
I have had quite a few toons lately that really felt end heavy compared to ones I've been playing for years.
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I just wish it wasn't a hit of fail system...I'ld like to see a scaling accuracy/damage deal.
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I don't know. You pretty much either hit the guy or you don't.|
Originally Posted by LISAR
I just wish it wasn't a hit of fail system...I'ld like to see a scaling accuracy/damage deal.
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Occasionally, if you're a scrapper or a stalker and know weak points, presumably, you land a really good hit.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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The biggest problem I see here is that you have forgotten how to play a pre-20 melee character.|
Originally Posted by PowerStream
I see your points. I guess I just don't feel the pre-20 accuracy boost they put in a while back. I was playing my new elec melee/dark tank and at level 8 he was being pummelled by three minions. I had two secondary attacks(1 end 1 acc TO), 1 aoe aura(1 end enh) and 2 shields(each with 2 end red). I had just gotten the heal as well which with one TO recharge doesn't recharge fast enough to be helpful yet. Pretty sure that's how they were slotted anyway... He couldn't stand up to two minions and a lt. It was very discouraging to keep missing and faceplant because my shields would drop. Added in a blaster teamate to help kill them off faster and I would faceplant even faster because now there were more mobs pummelling me.
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Shields are pretty much just wasted endurance until you can slot them up. You definitely cannot run two shields and a damage aura. In the lowb game you can possibly run two shields, but endurance usage is still going to suck. You also need to slot up your attacks for accuracy (Slot 2 or more acc TOs), or set your difficulty down. You should be as close to 95 as you can get. That way all you can miss is one or maybe two in a row (If you drop below 90). Missing four in a row in the lowb game will get you dead with or without shields. Slot end-reduction next in your attacks. Sands is actually not to bad on endurance, because by the time you get done with it you have already recovered some of the cost (It truly sucks though when you miss with this one.).
All this being said the pre-20 game fricken sucks. The MOBs bump up in damage & hps. This means that you are taking more damage, and dealing less percentage of damage with each hit to the MOBs. All the while all you have is TOs till level 12, and limited slots. Even when you are able to slot with DOs the MOBs are still ahead of the curve. Not till you can slot level 20 IOs do you start catching up to the MOBs. This is a trickle affect of the Devs having to rebalance the game around SOs. This absolutely sucks for true newbs, and of course those who are not altiholics.
My suggestion would be to get rid of TO/TOIOs. Have DOs drop and sell at the start of the game. Have SOs drop and sell where DOs do now. Drop IO's down as well. I would also suggest that Health and Stamina in Fitness be swapped. This would make the pre-20 game a hells of lot better.
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While I don't agree with this change this statement isn't entirely true. There are powers where the End is calculated on enemies hit. I know that Psychic Wail works like that, drop it in an empty room and you lose no endurance. However, I believe if you only hit one person you get the full loss.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Standard code rant, it's probably possible, but highly improbable that it'd ever be implemented. Since endurance is consumed when you click the power, code would have to check after the power finishes animating and then give you endurance back.
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There is also a repulsion field that works on enemies hit to I believe. So it's definitely possible.
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Very good point. All of the blaster novas act like this. They have a standard endurance cost, but a -100% endurance effect on you if a target is hit.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
While I don't agree with this change this statement isn't entirely true. There are powers where the End is calculated on enemies hit. I know that Psychic Wail works like that, drop it in an empty room and you lose no endurance. However, I believe if you only hit one person you get the full loss.
There is also a repulsion field that works on enemies hit to I believe. So it's definitely possible. |
Perhaps they could do that with all attacks. Cut the endurance cost in half, but add a -endurance effect for each target hit.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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The (potential) large issue with this is that those endurance costs would not be enhanceable so it greatly decreases the usefulness of endurance reduction enhancements and means either endurance costs go up for people who use them or down for people who don't (depending on if the devs bake a certain amount of assumed ER slotting into the costs or not).
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Very good point. All of the blaster novas act like this. They have a standard endurance cost, but a -100% endurance effect on you if a target is hit.
Perhaps they could do that with all attacks. Cut the endurance cost in half, but add a -endurance effect for each target hit. |
A missed shot with a gun still expends a bullet.
A missed blow in melee still tires you (and can be more of a physical strain than a hit, which I cannot possibly explain unless you have some hand to hand experience).
Which points do not speak to the technical feasability of such a change, but argues that it is not necessarily desirable.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
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Actually the standard code rant doesn't apply at all. People seem to have lost the meaning of the Standard Code Rant and I mean to correct this. The standard code rant is about making assumptions on how difficult changes can be, no assumptions on difficulty were made, thus it does not apply to the OP.|
Originally Posted by Diggis
While I don't agree with this change this statement isn't entirely true.
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I present the chart:
This is the part where I pop in and toss a loos screw into the jumble of gears to say that when I use my Nova nuke and hit nothing, it expends no endurance. 
"All that crap is grey to me, no XP." - Positron 5/15/05 8:36am . . . The world stopped and silence ensued except for the sound of a crying infant off in the distance.
"Everyone needs to chill the hell out." - BackAlleyBrawler 11/13/08 3:26pm . . . Geeks around the world stopped and blinked.
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That's not true, it expends 20.8 endurance. This was actually covered above. The way the blaster nukes work is that they drain a normal endurance cost (20.8) however additionally for every target they hit they also apply a debuff to the caster that drains all endurance and sets recovery to 0. A mechanic like this could feasibly be added to every single power in the game however there is an issue with doing so. Specifically endurance reduction enhancements would not affect it. Endurance modification enhancements could feasibly affect it but would increase the drain (which would not be desirable). So it's not a particularly good method for implementing such a system.
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Originally Posted by Ashlocke
This is the part where I pop in and toss a loos screw into the jumble of gears to say that when I use my Nova nuke and hit nothing, it expends no endurance.
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I only mentioned the Standard Code Rant as a way to say "I have no idea how difficult it would be to implement this, but here's a possible solution."
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Originally Posted by Krogoth
Actually the standard code rant doesn't apply at all. People seem to have lost the meaning of the Standard Code Rant and I mean to correct this. The standard code rant is about making assumptions on how difficult changes can be, no assumptions on difficulty were made, thus it does not apply to the OP.
I present the chart: |
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Has there been any serious discussion of having a miss cost less endurance? Is it even possible? I tried doing a search but didn't find anything related.
I just know there is nothing like having a streak of 4 misses and look up and my endurance is almost drained and the boss is still over half health.
Also can vet rewards be less end hogs? Sands of Mu is part of my attack chain on my dark.dark scrapper and it is a much larger end hog since I can't add end red to it.
Just a couple of thoughts!