Interested in New CoX wiki for lore?
I'd like a wiki for OUR toons only. Their stories and how/if they tie into the CoH canon/lore.
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http://www.ouroportal.com
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
This is a pretty good idea, but I think the current Paragon Wiki is pretty well set up for it. Perhaps adding a section on the front page, like the one you suggest, that would link to existing articles would work. Naturally, the articles, which already have lore sections (many pages have a "Background" section) could be expanded.
Also, in your example, searching the wiki for "Rikti" * gets you a page with their official info copied from the CoH site, then a list of their villains, then a section of spoilers. The link from the new main page portal could link to specific sections of this article, as appropriate, rather than making you search through it or its table of contents, which sounds like what you want. In fact, you could have a "lore" section of the front page that ended up linking specifically to the aforementioned "background" sections.
You could even incorporate the already present categories system: have the front page link to important categories like "Companies" or "Scientists." Some categories might have to be added, but using what's there already would make things easier. I think links to the category pages would be fine (example: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Category:Companies) but you could also have the wiki's hidden boxes on the main page that open up to links to an several articles' background sections.
*edit: typing "rikti" then pressing "enter" gets you to the Rikti page. Clicking the search button gets you all kinds of stuff... but who does that these days? <.< >.> I mean, why click, when you're already typing, right?
The easiest thing to do right now is create a page called 'Lore'. You can make that the top page of a hierarchy of pages by creating subpages as so:
- Lore/Multiverse
- Lore/Multiverse/Rikti
- Lore/Multiverse/Praetoria
- Lore/Multiverse/Netherworld
- Lore/Powers
- Lore/Archetypes
- Lore/Races
- Lore/Technology
If that project gets big enough, it might then be spun off into it's own domain, like ouroborosportal.
In the meantime, check out: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Category:Lore which is a page listing pages marked with lore tags.
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I think it would be easier for the idea, but harder to round up the info...
I need a name for this >.> maybe something like City of Lore or Portal Corp or Vanguard Files.
Wow, conversation about Paragon Wiki... Must... Weigh... In...
I think that Aggelakis is right. We already host two wikis, and it sounds like there would be a pretty big intersection between the information in this wiki and the information in the Paragon Wiki. For what it's worth, I try to add in lore as I can. There's certainly no rule against adding lore. In fact, the dirty little secret is that keeping track of game lore was one of the primary motivations I had for creating the wiki to begin with. To be honest, it's gotten a lot more nitty-gritty detail as time has gone on than anything I had planned at the outset.
But you can still see some of this legacy in articles such as the Freedom Corps article, Midnight Squad, Maiden Justice, etc. Of course, there's more than only lore in these articles, because the wiki was designed to be useful as well as a good read. But there are pretty heavy lore sections on most major characters (e.g. background sections on Luminary, Baron Zoria, etc.)
My gut suggestion is that you think the Paragon Wiki is a bit light on lore, by gummy, beef it up. I only ask that you provide citations for where you get the information. If you decide to go with a separate wiki just for lore, I'd highly suggest doing this anyway. The sad fact is that if you don't, there's a pretty good likelihood that some people will just make stuff up and put in it.
If you do decide to go it on your own, you'll need a hosting provider. To start off, I'd suggest something like Namecheap or Dreamhost. The Paragon Wiki uses the same software that runs the Wikipedia, which is the open source MediaWiki software. If you want to test drive it and see if you're willing and able to host the wiki, you can configure it to run on your workstation, but you'll also need copies of Apache, MySQL, and PHP (all open source, and all cross-platform), or you might want to look into something like XAMPP, which contains everything you need in one neat self-contained installable package.
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I think it would be easier for the idea, but harder to round up the info...
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Wow, conversation about Paragon Wiki... Must... Weigh... In...
I think that Aggelakis is right. We already host two wikis, and it sounds like there would be a pretty big intersection between the information in this wiki and the information in the Paragon Wiki. For what it's worth, I try to add in lore as I can. There's certainly no rule against adding lore. In fact, the dirty little secret is that keeping track of game lore was one of the primary motivations I had for creating the wiki to begin with. To be honest, it's gotten a lot more nitty-gritty detail as time has gone on than anything I had planned at the outset. But you can still see some of this legacy in articles such as the Freedom Corps article, Midnight Squad, Maiden Justice, etc. Of course, there's more than only lore in these articles, because the wiki was designed to be useful as well as a good read. But there are pretty heavy lore sections on most major characters (e.g. background sections on Luminary, Baron Zoria, etc.) My gut suggestion is that you think the Paragon Wiki is a bit light on lore, by gummy, beef it up. I only ask that you provide citations for where you get the information. If you decide to go with a separate wiki just for lore, I'd highly suggest doing this anyway. The sad fact is that if you don't, there's a pretty good likelihood that some people will just make stuff up and put in it. If you do decide to go it on your own, you'll need a hosting provider. To start off, I'd suggest something like Namecheap or Dreamhost. The Paragon Wiki uses the same software that runs the Wikipedia, which is the open source MediaWiki software. If you want to test drive it and see if you're willing and able to host the wiki, you can configure it to run on your workstation, but you'll also need copies of Apache, MySQL, and PHP (all open source, and all cross-platform), or you might want to look into something like XAMPP, which contains everything you need in one neat self-contained installable package. |
Right now I have a Go Daddy and Gatorhost hosting plan. I just haven't set up a wiki before... but i t should be no harder than a forum or anything else which only took me 24 hours to figure out ^.^
As far as beefing up Paragonwiki...as I've stated before it's not that the information is not there it's that the information is all over the place and without a lot of redundancy of information in multiple areas you're not going to fix that problem.
Oh and yes in something like this i would insist citations even though my hatred of using them in other areas ^.^
As i said... the information is all over the place on paragon wiki but it's there and yes it would be easier to link to every little thing...probably for that information in the short run. The site layout really doesn't work for what I'm talking about.
Wow, conversation about Paragon Wiki... Must... Weigh... In...
I think that Aggelakis is right. We already host two wikis, and it sounds like there would be a pretty big intersection between the information in this wiki and the information in the Paragon Wiki. For what it's worth, I try to add in lore as I can. There's certainly no rule against adding lore. In fact, the dirty little secret is that keeping track of game lore was one of the primary motivations I had for creating the wiki to begin with. To be honest, it's gotten a lot more nitty-gritty detail as time has gone on than anything I had planned at the outset. But you can still see some of this legacy in articles such as the Freedom Corps article, Midnight Squad, Maiden Justice, etc. Of course, there's more than only lore in these articles, because the wiki was designed to be useful as well as a good read. But there are pretty heavy lore sections on most major characters (e.g. background sections on Luminary, Baron Zoria, etc.) My gut suggestion is that you think the Paragon Wiki is a bit light on lore, by gummy, beef it up. I only ask that you provide citations for where you get the information. If you decide to go with a separate wiki just for lore, I'd highly suggest doing this anyway. The sad fact is that if you don't, there's a pretty good likelihood that some people will just make stuff up and put in it. If you do decide to go it on your own, you'll need a hosting provider. To start off, I'd suggest something like Namecheap or Dreamhost. The Paragon Wiki uses the same software that runs the Wikipedia, which is the open source MediaWiki software. If you want to test drive it and see if you're willing and able to host the wiki, you can configure it to run on your workstation, but you'll also need copies of Apache, MySQL, and PHP (all open source, and all cross-platform), or you might want to look into something like XAMPP, which contains everything you need in one neat self-contained installable package. |
For instance, the Longbow entry states it was created as "Ms. Liberty's solution to her disagreement with Statesman's policies regarding Freedom Corps." However, clicking the several links on the Longbow page don't reveal just what that disagreement was. That sort of omission is the type that I find really annoying, and I think it's at the heart of Durakken's issues wit hthe current set-up.
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As i said... the information is all over the place on paragon wiki but it's there and yes it would be easier to link to every little thing...probably for that information in the short run. The site layout really doesn't work for what I'm talking about.
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If you set up your own /Lore/... subdomain, you can structure it however you want, just like you would a standalone wiki. Everything that you're imagining your standalone wiki would do, you can do as a subdomain on Paragonwiki, so, I don't get how you're saying you can't structure things the way you want on Paragonwiki and still talking about using a wiki.... it's the same tools -- structure the subdomain anyway you want.
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I'm not advocating making your lore pages just a bunch of links to other wiki articles, it's just that links to stuff that's there (like the location of a contact) is already there to be linked to.
If you set up your own /Lore/... subdomain, you can structure it however you want, just like you would a standalone wiki. Everything that you're imagining your standalone wiki would do, you can do as a subdomain on Paragonwiki, so, I don't get how you're saying you can't structure things the way you want on Paragonwiki and still talking about using a wiki.... it's the same tools -- structure the subdomain anyway you want. |
If it is I have no problem doing that
and looking around a bit doesn't seem to be a way to do that from a user standpoint
i have no idea if that is even possible to do...
If it is I have no problem doing that and looking around a bit doesn't seem to be a way to do that from a user standpoint |
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Durakken/Lore
(it currently doesn't exist, obviously; you would have to put some text there to create it)
Then, each subpage would have to be created:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Durakken/Lore
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Durakken/Lore/Timeline
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Durakken/Lore/Rikti
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Dur.../Hro'Dtohz
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Dur...er/Other_Stuff
If you ended up getting it fleshed out enough to merit its own section in the wiki, you (or an admin) would then move it to:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lore
...and the subpages would need to be moved as well. I would recommend, if you plan on doing something like this, to just fiddle with layouts/breadcrumbs before working on the actual articles. Only do a few articles to completion before submitting them to the wiki forum for consensus on moving it to main namespace. Wiki forum:
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/c,14.html
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
I laid out sample pages for the main lore page, a policy page, and the main trunk of the multiverse page.
Edit mercilessly. Edit boldly.
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I laid out sample pages for the main lore page, a policy page, and the main trunk of the multiverse page.
Edit mercilessly. Edit boldly. |
Thanks... I would not have known how to do that, but now I is working >.> though lack of wiki code is making this more difficult than need be >.>
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You know, when I was writing missions for AE, what I wanted most was a Canon Bible. Sadly, there isn't one. The closest you can get is ParagonWiki, and, as Durakken has pointed out, the data is scattered all over the place.
If I want to locate everything there is to know about Crey Industries, its history, its operations, its structure, security operations, and so on, I have a lot of work ahead of me.
If I want to locate everything there is to know about Back Alley Brawler's past, from the day he started as a cop to when he retired to training heroes, and all the missions he undertook between, I have a lot of searching to do.
It should be easier.
Yeah, ParagonWiki is great if you want to know about a mission, a power, an IO, a map, or whatever. But canon? That's altogether different. Canon isn't organized into any system that's useful to mission writers who want to write stories that don't conflict with existing history.
What he's proposing would make that much easier. It would also help short story and novel writers.
Honestly, I've never had a problem finding any lore-related info I wanted on ParagonWiki (except, of course, when the info just doesn't exist in the first place, which happens too often), and I don't see the point in creating a completely separate wiki as opposed to improving the one we already have.
YMMV.
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I don't see the point in creating a completely separate wiki as opposed to improving the one we already have.
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If a namespace is created, then instead of /wiki/Lore/Multiverse, you'd have /wiki/Lore:Multiverse. As an added bonus, the advanced search page would allow you to restrict your search to only the Lore namespace. (Or exclude it, if you liked)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
so some pages are up and info is being put up...so now i need feed back on these... as they are more or less templates...
Primal Earth Page: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Dur...e/Primal_Earth
Primal Earth Marcus Cole Page: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Dur...th_Marcus_Cole
Also... please take a look at the multiverse, races, and technology pages and tell me what you think...
And last... any idea on the powers and archetype sections... The powers section should probably have info on Origins of powers and a list of the basic powers and how they manifest...
If peeps need assistance with graphical details/website design, be sure to send me a PM and i'd be happy to help with the wiki. I personally tire of seeing the standard wiki layout, aha.
Ouroportal is cool. Never knew about it until now.
Also, one advantage of using Pwiki as an interface is that more people will actually be more likely to read and become familiar with lore information. It's useless unless it is being used.
That said, perhaps there is a more palatable way to integrate lore information into the wiki. Perhaps have lore-only links which lack game and statistical details and attempt to congregate information in a better way.
Sermon
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so some pages are up and info is being put up...so now i need feed back on these... as they are more or less templates...
Primal Earth Page: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Dur...e/Primal_Earth Primal Earth Marcus Cole Page: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Dur...th_Marcus_Cole Also... please take a look at the multiverse, races, and technology pages and tell me what you think... And last... any idea on the powers and archetype sections... The powers section should probably have info on Origins of powers and a list of the basic powers and how they manifest... |
One thing: make the link to Statesman's article more prominent. I like the layout and the timeline, but without making it clear that there is a written bio/background, it looks lacking.
Also, his birthday wasn't in 1986 (although, with time traveling whosawhatsits, you never know).
I don't have as much time as I'd like, so I just checked out the two you linked. They look great so far!
One thing: make the link to Statesman's article more prominent. I like the layout and the timeline, but without making it clear that there is a written bio/background, it looks lacking. Also, his birthday wasn't in 1986 (although, with time traveling whosawhatsits, you never know). |
This is more about parsing data than it is new info.
What do you mean more prominent? If you are talking about on Primal Earth page, it's not supposed to be. Everyone is just as important as the next ^.^ and that list is going to be huge... Consider just about every name in the game will be on that list.
What do you mean written bio/background? Do you mean a prose style bio that's in the other one? There is more info in the timeline, maybe you mean a synopse of who the character is... doing a prose style write would be redundant.
On a Side note... a writings or tomes or something like that section is probably a good thing to add as well, but I have no idea what to call it.
All the Story Lore I no comes form the Story Arc I play, there should be a Story DATA BAse for this Stuff, I think it's a good Idea.
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1896 and that's according to the Timeline on the wiki already.
This is more about parsing data than it is new info. What do you mean more prominent? If you are talking about on Primal Earth page, it's not supposed to be. Everyone is just as important as the next ^.^ and that list is going to be huge... Consider just about every name in the game will be on that list. What do you mean written bio/background? Do you mean a prose style bio that's in the other one? There is more info in the timeline, maybe you mean a synopse of who the character is... doing a prose style write would be redundant. On a Side note... a writings or tomes or something like that section is probably a good thing to add as well, but I have no idea what to call it. |
As for what I meant about Statesman: on your page for Primal Marcus Cole, there's a section called"History". Right below its title is a link to the regular article on Statesman's Background section. That's what ought to be more prominent.
Reasoning: people who are looking for lore will surely be interested in what he did (the timeline) but are also going to want to know why he did it, or what sorts of things led to it, and general things that go deeper. The link is relatively easy to pass over, and it's really what I think people who are going to be looking at this project will be looking for. Since the idea here is to make lore streamlined and easy to find, making that link more prominent is a good idea.
Maybe a section called "background" that just says "See this page: <link>"? Or a little note that says "For a more detailed background, go here: <link>"?
Also if CoHTitan isn't gonna go for it then I guess I'll start one if I can figure out how to >.>