Powerset Idea - Grenades


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

Synopsis: This is a debuff/control powerset will perform similarly to Trick Arrow, providing massive AoE debuffing while being more compatible with other powersets and concepts that may not include a bow-using hero, villain, or rogue. The animations the powers will use will depend largely on the type of weapon a person has. If the person has an Assault Rifle or the Pulse Rifle from the Assault Rifle, Mercenaries or Robotics powersets, they will launch the grenades from the Assault Rifle or Pulse Rifle barrel. If the person has another weapon, like Dual Pistols or Archery, or if the person has a non-weapon powerset, they will use hand grenades. The disadvantage of the faster animation times, damage dealing powers and lack of redraw is that endurance costs and recharge times will be increased.


GRENADES (Defenders, Controllers, Masterminds, Corruptors): You carry a wide assortment of grenades, each with their own special payloads. This support powerset is unique in that it has a few abilities that not only debuff, but also deal damage to the enemy.

1/1: Smoke Grenade - Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Perception, -To-Hit
The Smoke Grenade envelops all those in the affected area in a cloud of smoke. Most villains will not be able to see past normal melee range, although some may have better Perception. If the villains are attacked, they will be alerted to your presence, but will suffer a penalty to Accuracy. Recharge: Moderate (30 sec)

1/2: Web Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe: Immobilize, -Recharge, -Fly
Upon impact, the Web Grenade expels a strong, tenuous, and very sticky substance that can Immobilize most targets. This non-lethal device deals no damage and does not prevent targets from attacking, although their attack rate is slowed. The web can bring down flying entities and halts jumping. Recharge: Moderate (20 sec)

2/4: Glue Grenade - Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Recharge, -SPD, -Fly
This grenade carries a cartridge of intensely sticky glue, which explodes on impact. The glue slows the movement and attack rates of any foes in the area. Recharge: Slow (1 min)

6/10: Concussion Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Minor DMG(Smashing), Foe Knockdown, Disorient
The force of a Concussion Grenade can knock enemies off their feet, dealing minor Smashing damage and temporarily Disorienting them. Damage: Minor, Recharge: Slow (45 sec)

8/16: Gas Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Hold, -DMG
A Gas Grenade leaves foes in the effected area choking and helpless. Even if they are not affected, their potential to do Damage will still be reduced. Recharge: Moderate (30 sec)

12/20: Frag Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Lethal/Smashing), Foe Knockback
The Frag Grenade will explode on impact with an enemy, dealing Lethal and Smashing damage to all surrounding enemies as well as knocking them to the ground. Recharge: Moderate (20 sec)

18/28: Sonic Grenade - Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Res(All)
This grenade plants a sonic resonator at a target location. The vibrations of the resonator weaken the damage resistance of all nearby foes. Recharge: Moderate (30 sec)

26/35: Incendiary Grenade - Ranged (Location AoE), Moderate DoT(Fire)
The Incendiary Grenade contains highly volatile material that will ignite when exposed to air. It will leave a cloud of burning particles that will deal severe Fire damage to any enemy that passes through. Damage: Moderate, Recharge: Slow (45 sec)

32/38: EMP Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe Hold, -Regen, -Recovery, -End, Special vs. Robots, Self -Recovery
This grenade can unleash a massive pulse of electromagnetic energy on impact. This EMP can affect machines, and is even powerful enough to affect synaptic brain patterns. It will incapacitate all foes in its radius. Additionally, most machines and robots will take moderate high damage. However, the blast will affect you too, leaving you drained of Endurance and unable to recover Endurance for a while. Damage: Moderate (High vs machines), Recharge: Very Slow (3 min)


 

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It's an interesting suggestion, yes, but as I recall the distinction isn't there between powersets to throw grenades and launch grenades, let alone modifying the endurance cost and recharge time depending on powerset unless they made two, one for Rifle sets and one for without.

And I've not tested an AR/*/Munitions Blaster at a high enough level to see if there's redraw between using AR powers and using Munitions Powers.


 

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Originally Posted by Zortel View Post
It's an interesting suggestion, yes, but as I recall the distinction isn't there between powersets to throw grenades and launch grenades, let alone modifying the endurance cost and recharge time depending on powerset unless they made two, one for Rifle sets and one for without.

And I've not tested an AR/*/Munitions Blaster at a high enough level to see if there's redraw between using AR powers and using Munitions Powers.
The animation times, end costs, etc, would all be the same. The only difference is: if you're using an assault rifle, you don't have to "undraw" or "redraw" to fire a grenade. If you have an AR, you fire the grenade from the launcher, if you don't, you throw it by hand.


 

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Eh, sounds cool. I'd honestly just be happy if they made alternate animations for Trick Arrow that had the powers use a rifle or what have you instead. Sure, it might not make sense to have a power with the word 'arrow' in it shoot a grenade, but they've already done something like that with Martial Arts anyways, where powers like Storm Kick and Crippling Axe Kick have alternate punching animations.


 

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Originally Posted by Mephistroth View Post
Eh, sounds cool. I'd honestly just be happy if they made alternate animations for Trick Arrow that had the powers use a rifle or what have you instead. Sure, it might not make sense to have a power with the word 'arrow' in it shoot a grenade, but they've already done something like that with Martial Arts anyways, where powers like Storm Kick and Crippling Axe Kick have alternate punching animations.
Going to agree with this, if anything along these lines. Mostly because the powerset as detailed in the OP is already made up of 2/3 renamed Trick Arrow powers.


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Originally Posted by IanTheM1 View Post
Going to agree with this, if anything along these lines. Mostly because the powerset as detailed in the OP is already made up of 2/3 renamed Trick Arrow powers.
Only 3 or 4 of them are. The rest are just temp powers that are revamped and modified a little.


 

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Theres not a single Single Target power in there, which would put Endurance costs through the roof.
Other than that...its interesting.


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Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

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It seems to me, that this should be a suggestion for an Animation Customization option for TA, and not it's own set. It isn't different enough, IMO, to warrant its own set.



 

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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
It seems to me, that this should be a suggestion for an Animation Customization option for TA, and not it's own set. It isn't different enough, IMO, to warrant its own set.
I think it's suitably different enough to warrant it's own set. Think of the differences between Katana and Ninja Blade.


 

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
Theres not a single Single Target power in there, which would put Endurance costs through the roof.
Other than that...its interesting.
You're implying that this is a powerset that's designed to be spammed constantly.


 

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Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
You're implying that this is a powerset that's designed to be spammed constantly.
No, I'm just implying that the Devs have never built a set that is ALL AoE powers. There is always a balance of ST/AoE powers in every set, at least in ones that affect enemies. Why? I dunno, frankly. Just pointing it out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
I think it's suitably different enough to warrant it's own set. Think of the differences between Katana and Ninja Blade.
Ummm...you know that the main difference between the two is the name of the set, right? And the fact that Ninja blade gets Assassin strike because it's a Stalker set?


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
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"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
You're implying that this is a powerset that's designed to be spammed constantly.
Taking down the minions in a spawn would be fine. Taking down the boss at the end would be endurance hell.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Ummm...you know that the main difference between the two is the name of the set, right? And the fact that Ninja blade gets Assassin strike because it's a Stalker set?
Ninja Blade gets AS and Placate, as well as a different "default" weapon model (back before I11's weapon customization) and a different draw animation (over the back rather than from the hip). If you don't consider Grenades to be valid as a separate powerset, you shouldn't consider NB to be valid as a separate powerset either.

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Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
No, I'm just implying that the Devs have never built a set that is ALL AoE powers. There is always a balance of ST/AoE powers in every set, at least in ones that affect enemies. Why? I dunno, frankly. Just pointing it out.
Trick Arrow has exactly two ST powers out of 9, one of which is marginally useful. The very nature of grenade weapons dictates that they be at least parially AoE based. The balance here comes from long recharge times and high endurance costs, rather than having ST abilities.


 

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Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
Ninja Blade gets AS and Placate, as well as a different "default" weapon model (back before I11's weapon customization) and a different draw animation (over the back rather than from the hip). If you don't consider Grenades to be valid as a separate powerset, you shouldn't consider NB to be valid as a separate powerset either.
I don't.


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Trick Arrow has exactly two ST powers out of 9, one of which is marginally useful. The very nature of grenade weapons dictates that they be at least parially AoE based. The balance here comes from long recharge times and high endurance costs, rather than having ST abilities.
2 > 0. And those powers can be useful when dealing with a boss, to keep him at range.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
I don't.




2 > 0. And those powers can be useful when dealing with a boss, to keep him at range.
Then I guess you'll just have to pick another powerset if you want ST abilities.


 

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Eh, you could very easily turn web grenade into an single target power, as i don't really know very many web grenades that are AoEs.. (traps, and devices are both single target)


 

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Originally Posted by Arbegla View Post
Eh, you could very easily turn web grenade into an single target power, as i don't really know very many web grenades that are AoEs.. (traps, and devices are both single target)
Mace Mastery, Bane Spider VEAT, Crab Spider VEAT, Wolf Spider VEAT. Additionally, Bane Spider NPCs and likely others have wide area web grenades. The amount of powersets that have AoE web grenades outnumber the ones that have single-target attacks.


 

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Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
1/1: Smoke Grenade - Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Perception, -To-Hit
Flash Arrow

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1/2: Web Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe: Immobilize, -Recharge, -Fly
Entangling Arrow. Though with this as an AoE rather than ST, it's redundant with Glue Grenade.

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2/4: Glue Grenade - Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Recharge, -SPD, -Fly
Glue Arrow

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6/10: Concussion Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Minor DMG(Smashing), Foe Knockdown, Disorient
Original. I actually kinda like this power.

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8/16: Gas Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Foe Hold, -DMG
Poison Gas Arrow, just with a hold instead of a sleep.

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12/20: Frag Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Lethal/Smashing), Foe Knockback
Not from Trick Arrow, but identical to M30 Grenade and enemy grenade attacks. Plus, a pure attack power in a debuff set?

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18/28: Sonic Grenade - Ranged (Location AoE), Foe -Res(All)
Disruption Arrow

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26/35: Incendiary Grenade - Ranged (Location AoE), Moderate DoT(Fire)
This tricked me at first, but this is essentially Oil Slick Arrow's ignite effect.

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32/38: EMP Grenade - Ranged (Targeted AoE), Moderate DMG(Energy), Foe Hold, -Regen, -Recovery, -End, Special vs. Robots, Self -Recovery
EMP Arrow

I count six (maybe seven) powers that are identical or extremely close to Trick Arrow. So sure enough, 2/3 of the set.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
Mace Mastery, Bane Spider VEAT, Crab Spider VEAT, Wolf Spider VEAT. Additionally, Bane Spider NPCs and likely others have wide area web grenades. The amount of powersets that have AoE web grenades outnumber the ones that have single-target attacks.

Actually, the ATs that have access to single target 'web grenades' clearly outnumber the ones that have access to AoE ones.

And Mace mastery, that one that has the AoE Web grenade, is only available to VEATs, Brutes, Corruptors, and Masterminds

VEATs, no matter how to slice it, is still just 1 AT.

Blasters get devices.

Corruptors, Masterminds, and Defenders get traps.

Scrappers get Weapons Mastery.

And for 'Web Grenade clones' you have trick arrow, which is available to defenders, controllers, corruptors, and masterminds.

So, the number of ATs with access to single target 'web grenades' clearly outnumber the ones that have AoE web grenades.

So its actually better for that to be a single target power.

I do have to agree that a damaging ability in a debuff set is kinda odd, so maybe you could replace Frag Grenade with another single target grenade like power.


 

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Originally Posted by Arbegla View Post
Actually, the ATs that have access to single target 'web grenades' clearly outnumber the ones that have access to AoE ones.

And Mace mastery, that one that has the AoE Web grenade, is only available to VEATs, Brutes, Corruptors, and Masterminds

VEATs, no matter how to slice it, is still just 1 AT.

Blasters get devices.

Corruptors, Masterminds, and Defenders get traps.

Scrappers get Weapons Mastery.

And for 'Web Grenade clones' you have trick arrow, which is available to defenders, controllers, corruptors, and masterminds.

So, the number of ATs with access to single target 'web grenades' clearly outnumber the ones that have AoE web grenades.

So its actually better for that to be a single target power.

I do have to agree that a damaging ability in a debuff set is kinda odd, so maybe you could replace Frag Grenade with another single target grenade like power.
If Shield Defense gets Shield Charge and Trick Arrow gets EMP Arrow (and Oil Slick Arrow's ignite effect), I don't see why Grenades couldn't get Frag Grenade. The emphasis is on the KD/KB - which is 100% guaranteed.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
I think it's suitably different enough to warrant it's own set. Think of the differences between Katana and Ninja Blade.
...which is a poor example. One of those was done exclusively for Stalkers, who, I assume, got Ninja Blade instead of Katana as it sounded a bit more villainous, and had that Nin(ja Blade)/Nin(jitsu) thing going for it. I would assume, that if the Stalkers were to be created for the first time tomorrow... that the Devs would simply port Katana whole cloth.

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Originally Posted by MondoCool View Post
Mace Mastery, Bane Spider VEAT, Crab Spider VEAT, Wolf Spider VEAT. Additionally, Bane Spider NPCs and likely others have wide area web grenades. The amount of powersets that have AoE web grenades outnumber the ones that have single-target attacks.
... You realize that the 3 VEAT versions count as one power right? Because you can't take more than one at a time, and they are all exactly the same power that are only in three "different" sets due to how VEATs operate (and to limit re-draw), not because they wanted three different sets to have WAWG.



 

Posted

Thematically, Traps and Devices are supposed to fill this concept, a gadget user who's not an Archer, so it just being a clone of TA is a point against it, what I'd like to see is this as a control set, THAT would be nice, a Gadgeteer's control set.

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I think it's suitably different enough to warrant it's own set. Think of the differences between Katana and Ninja Blade.

There are differences between katana and Ninja Blade?

This seems like comparing Tanker super Strength with Brute Super Strength.


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