multiple detail layers on costumes


Anti_Proton

 

Posted

Hey guys,

A decent feature that would help in costume creation is if you could place more than one detail onto a selected costume piece.

For instance you have a white glove, you place a red artic design on it, but over the top of that you also place a golden coloured blend design.

Effectively you get three colours on one costume piece area, two colours is a little limiting currently. This idea could be put in game simply by bringing up another detail box underneath the first one, should you change the detail on the first one from 'none'

Of course you are going to get people trying to put 5000 layers on the piece like this, hence why i think it should be limited to 3 designs per costume piece.

It just stops a lot of charecters looking so monochrome with little effort, you are still going to get it sure, but it adds a whole new feature with customisation which the players love with very little effort on the devs part since all the pieces are already in game, it just need a minor UI change to accept more designs.


 

Posted

This would be a great addition but every indication we've gotten from the Devs points to it not being anywhere near as easy as you seem to think it is.


 

Posted

I feel a bit guilty for admitting that I envy Champions Online in that aspect; their layers, in comparison to ours, are superior in many ways. I understand that two VERY different engines are in-play, here, but that doesn't stop me from hoping it were so.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatoric View Post
artic
That's "arctic."

Quote:
Effectively you get three colours on one costume piece area, two colours is a little limiting currently. This idea could be put in game simply by bringing up another detail box underneath the first one, should you change the detail on the first one from 'none'
I agree with this wholeheartedly. People cite technical limitations, but in this case our colour patterns are just tinting masks, so multiples shouldn't require reinventing the wheel. Standard Code Rant obviously applies, but the implementation suggested here is very different from that used in Champions Online, and it is something that has historically had precedent in games like Need For Speed: Underground, where you could have multiple layers of vynils that overlapped each other just fine.

One thing I want to restate about our patterns, however, is that they are just that - simple colour stencils and nothing more. We do not have the ability to layer actual TEXTURES overtop each other, and I feel we should. That would create a LOT of cool effects, such as laying tights overtop armour to give the illusion of a robot wearing "skintight" clothes, or indeed layer armour over skin, to give the illusion of half-armour designs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
That's "arctic."



I agree with this wholeheartedly. People cite technical limitations, but in this case our colour patterns are just tinting masks, so multiples shouldn't require reinventing the wheel. Standard Code Rant obviously applies, but the implementation suggested here is very different from that used in Champions Online, and it is something that has historically had precedent in games like Need For Speed: Underground, where you could have multiple layers of vynils that overlapped each other just fine.

One thing I want to restate about our patterns, however, is that they are just that - simple colour stencils and nothing more. We do not have the ability to layer actual TEXTURES overtop each other, and I feel we should. That would create a LOT of cool effects, such as laying tights overtop armour to give the illusion of a robot wearing "skintight" clothes, or indeed layer armour over skin, to give the illusion of half-armour designs.
Or real cyborgs.


"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."

 

Posted

Things like Longbow, who have multiple chest details (stealth and the FP logo), and Void Hunters who have different textures.

Wholey /Signed


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti_Proton View Post
Or real cyborgs.
Or real cyborgs, yes. The concepts there are innumerable, to be honest. That's kind of why I've always wanted to see it. We could do so much more if the system supported layered textures like that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatoric View Post
Hey guys,

A decent feature that would help in costume creation is if you could place more than one detail onto a selected costume piece.

For instance you have a white glove, you place a red artic design on it, but over the top of that you also place a golden coloured blend design.

Effectively you get three colours on one costume piece area, two colours is a little limiting currently. This idea could be put in game simply by bringing up another detail box underneath the first one, should you change the detail on the first one from 'none'

Of course you are going to get people trying to put 5000 layers on the piece like this, hence why i think it should be limited to 3 designs per costume piece.

It just stops a lot of charecters looking so monochrome with little effort, you are still going to get it sure, but it adds a whole new feature with customisation which the players love with very little effort on the devs part since all the pieces are already in game, it just need a minor UI change to accept more designs.
I'd just be happy if we could stop all this symmetry design, and allow different patterns/custome pieces on left and right sides.

Layered patterns would be cool to, so /signed (if it's feasible with this engine).


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.

 

Posted

One of the things that stood in the way of allowing multiple layers on the costumes was the possibility of people coming up with questionable or suggestive designs through the creative combination of multiple layers and chest details. The amount of work it would take to vet every conceivable combination to avoid this kind of behavior boggles the mind.


>


"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
The amount of work it would take to vet every conceivable combination to avoid this kind of behavior boggles the mind.

The costume generator can already be abused as it is, in countless ways. Nobody is sitting around looking at every costume that is made to make sure it's fine. The GMs take action when they get reports about copyright infringement or other questionable costumes. This would not be an exception.


Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg View Post
The costume generator can already be abused as it is, in countless ways. Nobody is sitting around looking at every costume that is made to make sure it's fine. The GMs take action when they get reports about copyright infringement or other questionable costumes. This would not be an exception.
^ This
You've not lived until you've seen a huge wearing nothing but pink speedos jumping around under Atlas.
Nor have you used such large quantities of mind bleach...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwillinger View Post
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon View Post
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
One of the things that stood in the way of allowing multiple layers on the costumes was the possibility of people coming up with questionable or suggestive designs through the creative combination of multiple layers and chest details. The amount of work it would take to vet every conceivable combination to avoid this kind of behavior boggles the mind.


>

Hmm with the designs available I sincerely doubt you would be able to design anything extremely offensive, other than the possibility of using the chest letters to spell out profanity.

That could be sorted by simply still allowing only one letter per chest piece, since it would take a long time to sort through all the people that would do it and it would take a long time for the system to be made to find out whats profanity and what isnt on costumes. It would mean coding an actual letter to a design, which would mean a huge change coding wise and then the profanity filter could be added.

It would be easier to just limit that one design....

That being said i just realised you wouldnt be moving letters anyway, so they would still overlap each other and make you unable to use them anyway.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
That's "arctic."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
....like Need For Speed: Underground, where you could have multiple layers of vynils that overlapped each other just fine.
Quoted for irony, thats vinyls


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg View Post
The costume generator can already be abused as it is, in countless ways. Nobody is sitting around looking at every costume that is made to make sure it's fine. The GMs take action when they get reports about copyright infringement or other questionable costumes. This would not be an exception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatoric View Post
Hmm with the designs available I sincerely doubt you would be able to design anything extremely offensive, other than the possibility of using the chest letters to spell out profanity.
*shrug* This is something to take up with the developers. It was developer a few years back that brought up the offensive costume issue in response to a request for multiple layers on costumes.


>


"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
One of the things that stood in the way of allowing multiple layers on the costumes was the possibility of people coming up with questionable or suggestive designs through the creative combination of multiple layers and chest details. The amount of work it would take to vet every conceivable combination to avoid this kind of behavior boggles the mind.
Huh... What "questionable designs?" When was that ever brought up officially? If you can't make naked characters now, how is putting on MORE clothes going to make that more likely? I'm sorry, I just don't follow. Do you mean adding skin-coloured patterns? Because we can't use skin colours for anything but skin. Not even white, not any more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatoric View Post
Quoted for irony, thats vinyls
The only reason I bring it up is because it's one of the most common misspellings in actual character names. Artic, Angle and Rouge tend to pop up very often. I'm a fairly solitary player, and even I've seen these on actual characters a few times.

As well, my spell checker doesn't seem to recognise the word "vinyls," but it does recognise "vinyl." Time to append my dictionary so this doesn't recur.

Ooh! Ooh! I got one more! "thats" Sorry, just fooling around.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Huh... What "questionable designs?" When was that ever brought up officially? If you can't make naked characters now, how is putting on MORE clothes going to make that more likely? I'm sorry, I just don't follow. Do you mean adding skin-coloured patterns? Because we can't use skin colours for anything but skin. Not even white, not any more.

IIRC, it was not a question of potential character nudity. The concern with the ability to apply multiple detail layers to a costume was that the layers and colors of said layers could possibly be combined to create offensive or questionable symbols or images.


>


"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
IIRC, it was not a question of potential character nudity. The concern with the ability to apply multiple detail layers to a costume was that the layers and colors of said layers could possibly be combined to create offensive or questionable symbols or images.
Huh. That... Sounds really far-fetched. I know what most of the existing chest patterns are, and I know chest details weren't described, so I have a really hard time even imagining what something like that would look like. And as with most other times these concerns come up, I have to ask - why not just ban people who do this? That's part of what GMs are for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Hmm, I could make my carnival of shadows character with a white face + eye/lip makeup AND multi-color pattern clothes for that festive design of the other CoS girls. I'd like this option.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Huh. That... Sounds really far-fetched. I know what most of the existing chest patterns are, and I know chest details weren't described, so I have a really hard time even imagining what something like that would look like. And as with most other times these concerns come up, I have to ask - why not just ban people who do this? That's part of what GMs are for.

More than likely because preventing the behavior in the first place is far easier than dealing with the innumerable number of complaints and grievances caused by allowing the behavior. I can appreciate the fact that you may not be able to think of a way of combining multiple costume details with chest details to create offensive or questionable images but there are roughly 199,999 other people that may be able to do so quite easily.


>


"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

 

Posted

well the fact of the matter is there isnt going to be that many combinations, if any that can make offensive images in there static position, im not asking for the designs to be able to be moved, just to apply more than one in there standard positions.

If there is a conflict, stopping one piece being used with another isnt that hard.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Predatoric View Post
well the fact of the matter is there isnt going to be that many combinations, if any that can make offensive images in there static position, im not asking for the designs to be able to be moved, just to apply more than one in there standard positions.

If there is a conflict, stopping one piece being used with another isnt that hard.
Actually it amounts to large number of possible permutations. If, for the sake of argument, we were given the option of selecting a primary upper body design (88 options) , a secondary upper body design (88 options) and a single chest detail (291 options) from the currently existing costume options for a male character that would amount to approximately 101,847,563 possible permutations if all 3 options are used. If even 1% of those permutations could be put together in an offensive or questionable way that would still be a little over 1,000,000 possibly bannable costumes. Quite a bit of work to first isolate and then code to prevent.


>


"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
Actually it amounts to large number of possible permutations. If, for the sake of argument, we were given the option of selecting a primary upper body design (88 options) , a secondary upper body design (88 options) and a single chest detail (291 options) from the currently existing costume options for a male character that would amount to approximately 101,847,563 possible permutations if all 3 options are used. If even 1% of those permutations could be put together in an offensive or questionable way that would still be a little over 1,000,000 possibly bannable costumes. Quite a bit of work to first isolate and then code to prevent.


>
I'm sorry, but that's an infinite monkey argument. It's also a very serious assumption that 1% of costume combinations will yield naughty pictures. I can state with a pretty serious degree of certainty that NO combination of patters can produce anything that can be unambiguously described as offensive. You calculated over a hundred million permutations. Can you cite even ONE instance of an offensive possibility?

Because bare bones stats are kind of uninformative here. Allow me to demonstrate. Pick a Tights chest. You cited 88 patterns. Each of those patterns can take two colours. Each colour is picked from a selection of 12x10, or 120 colours. So that's 120x120x88, or 1 267 200. If just 1% of that are offensive, that's 67 200 offensive combos. Here's the thing - NONE of them are, and that's provable by definition. No single pattern is offensive, and what you colour them doesn't matter. You can't just assert that a system of multiple patterns will produce offensive images with no evidence that that's even possible. Proof by not knowing does not work.

Incidentally, how DID you get 100 million on your combination? 88 options combined with 88 options combined with 291 options is 88x88x291 = 2 253 504.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I'm sorry, but that's an infinite monkey argument.
I disagree, the infinite monkey argument is about random chance not intentional design.

>


"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull

"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat