will not work with the current game engine. also, how do you swing in an open area with nothing to connect to?
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There is no functional difference between swinging and superjump, they're just the same action in a different direction. And "that other mmo" has no problem with just shooting a line up into the sky and having it disappear into nothing. It's called suspension of disbelief.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
will not work with the current game engine. also, how do you swing in an open area with nothing to connect to?
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Doesn't seem to bother many people.
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yeah, i tried the "other MMO" and it sucked. swinging just did not feel right to me in an open area. it just didn't make sense. and with the direction the "other MMO" is going, i don't really think we want to follow in their footsteps with this.
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Originally Posted by Yosomono
There is no functional difference between swinging and superjump, they're just the same action in a different direction. And "that other mmo" has no problem with just shooting a line up into the sky and having it disappear into nothing. It's called suspension of disbelief.
Doesn't seem to bother many people. |
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It's called "looks really fricking stupid," and, obviously, it bothers at leat two people (one of the many reasons I don't play that other game).|
Originally Posted by Yosomono
It's called suspension of disbelief.
Doesn't seem to bother many people. |
While I will agree with the premise of wanting more Travel powers, these two are not the ones I would ask for.
Unfortunately they're the easiest ones to implement with the current system, as I see it.
What would you prefer? The disk-flying system?
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if they are so easy to implement, why haven't they been done already?|
Originally Posted by Yosomono
Unfortunately they're the easiest ones to implement with the current system, as I see it.
What would you prefer? The disk-flying system? |
oh yeah, they WON'T WORK with the current game engine.
I didn't say they were EASY I said they were the easiest.
Huge difference.
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so give us some detail into how you would implement them... and not just the swinging, the tunneling also. because we all know that digging is all the rage in Paragon/rogue isles.|
Originally Posted by Yosomono
I didn't say they were EASY I said they were the easiest.
Huge difference. |
oh yeah, and it has TO WORK with the current game engine. not the imaginary one in your head.
Tunneling is easy because you just cheat. The animation shows the character go underground, but you really just replace the character model with the "mound of dirt" model and make it unable to jump. You effectively become a roomba.
Swinging, as I said, is just superjump in reverse. You could even cheat here as well, by making the toggle set the character model to "fly upward nonstop" as a form of inverse gravity, and the swinging is then *exactly* the same as upside-down superjump. It would take lots of tweaking to get it to look right, but it'd work. The "fire a line into space" bit is just animation.
Regardless, it's pretty obvious you are hostile to the idea and borderline trolling, so just forget I ever said anything.
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i'm not being hostile or trolling, you said it was easy and i would like to know how. and since tunneling would involve turning into a lump of dirt, are your powers still going to work like they do with every other travel power? i don't think they will. as for swinging, again, how will it work? there has to be some sort of believability to it or it will look rediculous. even in the spider man games, they still had attachment points that you could visably see, not just attaching to some imaginary point in the sky.|
Originally Posted by Yosomono
Tunneling is easy because you just cheat. The animation shows the character go underground, but you really just replace the character model with the "mound of dirt" model and make it unable to jump. You effectively become a roomba.
Swinging, as I said, is just superjump in reverse. You could even cheat here as well, by making the toggle set the character model to "fly upward nonstop" as a form of inverse gravity, and the swinging is then *exactly* the same as upside-down superjump. It would take lots of tweaking to get it to look right, but it'd work. The "fire a line into space" bit is just animation. Regardless, it's pretty obvious you are hostile to the idea and borderline trolling, so just forget I ever said anything. |
another point on tunneling, it isn't going to fit everyones concept of tunneling. i don't want to be turned into a lump of dirt. i want to see my toon actually in the ground traveling. you also have not considered water. what happens when you meet water while tunneling? do you turn into a big lump of cement? or does the dirt just wash off? these are all things you need to think about before suggesting something.
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No, the way I described tunneling is that it is equivalent to being phased. You cannot use powers that affect anyone but yourself. I even would go so far as to have it so that you CAN be hit, but cannot hit back. To prevent abuse.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
i'm not being hostile or trolling, you said it was easy and i would like to know how. and since tunneling would involve turning into a lump of dirt, are your powers still going to work like they do with every other travel power? i don't think they will. as for swinging, again, how will it work? there has to be some sort of believability to it or it will look rediculous. even in the spider man games, they still had attachment points that you could visably see, not just attaching to some imaginary point in the sky.
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Whether or not you think swinging requires that the cable attach to something seems to be a very divisive topic that not everyone can agree on. Many diehards demand that it attach to something, which basically makes it impossible to use in an mmo. Others have no problem with having the cable just go off into the distance, like it does in "that other game".
I think we can all agree that outside of New York City, Spider-man would have to take the bus like every other punk. But people still love the idea of swinging as a travel power, and I don't think it is unreasonable to want it even if you have to "pretend" you're connecting to something.
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ok, so a travel power that you can not fight back with and another that defies the law of anything that makes sense... that should go over really well. again, you haven't even answered the questions i posed to you in the last response. and i'm sorry, but spider-man had several attachment points in the game and in the movies and in comics. and just because some other mmo is doing it is not a good enough reason to do it here. |
Originally Posted by Yosomono
No, the way I described tunneling is that it is equivalent to being phased. You cannot use powers that affect anyone but yourself. I even would go so far as to have it so that you CAN be hit, but cannot hit back. To prevent abuse.
Whether or not you think swinging requires that the cable attach to something seems to be a very divisive topic that not everyone can agree on. Many diehards demand that it attach to something, which basically makes it impossible to use in an mmo. Others have no problem with having the cable just go off into the distance, like it does in "that other game". I think we can all agree that outside of New York City, Spider-man would have to take the bus like every other punk. But people still love the idea of swinging as a travel power, and I don't think it is unreasonable to want it even if you have to "pretend" you're connecting to something. |
and you are still oblivious to the fact that it WILL NOT WORK with this game engine we have. it would require an entire re-write of the engine which could, and will, bring about more problems then warranted just to add 2 new travel powers that will look rediculous.
also, as a side note, search is your friend. and seeing as how there were 2 other threads about swinging started just today, with one being in the same section you posted in, i see no reason why this one had to be started. you could have just started a thread about tunneling and added your thoughts to the one(s) about swinging. but you still would get the same type of answers and questions you are getting from me now.
Hostility really doesn't help you here.
Clearly you disagree. That's fine.
I'm fairly certain you're wrong about the engine, but I'm not going to sit here and yell back and forth with you about it as you seem to want to do. Especially as you seem intent on belittling people who don't agree with your conclusions. If you think I had no reason to post this, then that's all you had to say. There was no need to rant in a hostile manner about it.
Consider the discussion finished.
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take it as you will. i was not being hostile. i don't often use caps to yell, i use them to make my point stand out. and i don't sugar coat my posts to make them smell like roses and look like pretty littel butterflies or princesses or what have you. i was also not belittling you, just trying to open up your mind from the "i think it is cool and it has to be easy" mind set you seem to be in. |
Originally Posted by Yosomono
Hostility really doesn't help you here.
Clearly you disagree. That's fine. I'm fairly certain you're wrong about the engine, but I'm not going to sit here and yell back and forth with you about it as you seem to want to do. Especially as you seem intent on belittling people who don't agree with your conclusions. If you think I had no reason to post this, then that's all you had to say. There was no need to rant in a hostile manner about it. Consider the discussion finished. |
i asked perfectly good questions as to how these would work and you just ignored them. these are all things the devs will have to think of before doing anything like this. they can't just add somehting because they think it's cool. it actually has to function properly and look good.
Ok, here's my take on tunneling. After a digging animation and going underground (I don't think that will be that difficult; there is a similar animation when entering a snake hole), you transform in a mound of dirt. When moving, you leave a ground-cracking trail behind you that fades as you move on, like the fire trail disappears when super speeding. Tunneling will be a bit slower than SS, but it will grand Hide-level stealth, but you won't be able to attack, while those who manage to see you can. It makes sense, as you can't see your opponents while underground, while they the trail you leave behind. Now, what makes this power shine, is that it will be the safest form of traveling after fly, but considerably faster. Also, you get -jump while tunneling, so you wont be able to jump with only sprint and hurdle, but combat jumping and super jump enables you to jump again.
Also, about the rest of the pool:
Tunneling:
-*some single target attack*
-Burrow: placate power, similar to ninjitsu/smoke bomb, but not as strong
-Tunnel: travel power, +stealth, +speed, -jump, only affects self
-Soft Sand: you can only activate it while tunneling. PBAoE immob (mag3). This will be the only attack you can activate while tunneling.
It wont work with the current game engine, as Quint has said.
I doubt the Devs would risk another lawsuit with 'We own it all' Marvel, either.
And no, we don't need to look like the 'Other Super Hero MMO'. Use Superjump and imagine its your character swinging, if it bugs you that much.
Now, where did I...ah yes.
/Jranger
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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How would tunneling work on those little staircases in Steel Canyon? How would tunneling work on fire escapes? How would tunneling not look like crap on any slanted surface for that matter?
I'd love to see it as a travel power but until those problems get a solution, I don't see it happening.
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/this, and three.|
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
It's called "looks really fricking stupid," and, obviously, it bothers at leat two people (one of the many reasons I don't play that other game).
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Oh, tried the other game too. As I recall, I found tunneling really annoying when I had to turn off my travel power to get around some obstacles everyone else could just keep zipping through... like doorways.
I would say that adding alterations of flight (fire, ice, energy, ect) would make more people happy. maybe tweak SS now that ultra mode is coming. I think that was the only real cool thing about "that other MMO"
Tunneling.
Creating tunneling is a simple enough thing. Animation of the character diving into the ground headfirst or, like with snake-hole missions, feet first. Add speed boost, add "only affecting self" add stealth component, and add -jump/fly components. Bam. The animation for going up hills could be covered fairly well by making the "dirt clod" into a sphere with only the top showing. As you climb a hill the rear/top of the dirt clod becomes visible, making it seem like you're tunneling uphill.
However it doesn't account for tunneling through iron, on fire-escapes, or in the water.
Swinging
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-Rachel-
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Swinging doesn't work.
No. No. Don't explain how it -could- work. It doesn't work. The game uses easily manipulated and manageable variable attributes. These attributes translate directly into the engine controlling where, how, and how fast you move. Jump is understood by the engine as an arc, even when it's a vertical jump. Move past that arc's maximum length (fall) and you take damage. You can't invert the jump attribute to make you jump upside down for swinging's inverted superjump idea. It simply doesn't work within the system. Someone else suggested that you could use Fly with a pre-programmed vertical gain, but then the player would not be in control of the vertical gain or horizontal path. If the player -was- in control of the horizontal path players trying to move short distances would swing just as low and high as players swinging great distances. If the vertical gain were not pre-programmed, you'd simply have a fly power with the occasional grapple firing off. Not swinging. Based on how the game's engine currently functions, Swinging is utterly impossible. Please stop suggesting it. |
When a travel power is added to the game, it is balanced in every aspect. Being able to be phased and in the ground would unbalance pvp. How would someone knock you out the ground or would you damage the dirt as you dig? For you to be unable to attack while you were under ground would also make it harder for you to fight back.
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Anything is possible and they are trying to come up with new travel power but it might take a while, once Issue comes out i am sure we see a couple of them, however I am not to sure with these CO Rip off Travel Powers.
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You know, I always imagined that alternate travel power animations would be a good idea... Perhaps tunneling could be a form of teleportation? Choose your end point, dig here, pop out there!
Although in the air it just wouldn't look right... Maybe a separate set with similar mechanics to teleport, but just on surfaces would be better.
Personally I don't think the ideas are that bad. They are not impossible to do with the current system ether.
Just some stuff I was thinking about, no hard numbers or anything, just thematic.
Basically I really liked these ideas in "that other game" and thought they could work here.
Whenever possible I tried to think of ways to re-use existing animations.
Tunneling
Digger - singletarget melee attack, animation of Spines barb-swipe, low dmg, chance of blind
Throw Dirt - pickup animation from hurl, throw animation from seeds of confusion; smoke grenade style appearance. small angle cone causes blindness
Tunneling - 85% of superspeed, stealth, can be detoggled, can't jump
Burrow - aoe aggro-drop (like placate, but moves you to last place in aggro list not full de-aggro), same animation as tunnelling but cannot move (unless you turn on tunneling)
Swinging
Grapple - same as tp foe but requires line of sight
Core Strength - 7% self-dmg buff 10% self-res buff (years of swinging have made your core tougher)
Swinging - like superjump only inverted...obviously animation is tough
Cable-spin - PBAOE short-range attack (maybe whip range), spinning the grapple cable (or web if you like)
Anyway, probably complete crap but I had the thought and figured I might as well write it down here.