Which of your arcs are still playable?
By
DeviousMe,
Posted on: 2010-04-10 24:20 in Mission Architect
Ouch. Did this change really hit that hard?
"If I had Force powers, vacuum or not my cape/clothes/hair would always be blowing in the Dramatic Wind." - Tenzhi
Characters
I wouldn't go altering all your AE's just yet. As I understand a fix is coming 'Soon' (not tm soon, but real soon.)
All of my arcs are still playable.
You may not get full XP for them, but they're all playable.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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If the devs have defined the use of non-combat NPCs as exploits and penalize their use, so they are. You want to change or withdraw arcs that contain exploits, obviously. It's the only leverage we have.
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Originally Posted by DeviousMe
Ouch. Did this change really hit that hard?
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
I see what you're doing here, but I'm not going to be changing any of mine, despite there being some non-combat NPCs in tham at various points.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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But they haven't. Or at least they haven't said they were. In fact, they seem to entirely be implying that this is a temporary fix and they are working on a better solution. |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
If the devs have defined the use of non-combat NPCs as exploits and penalize their use, so they are. You want to change or withdraw arcs that contain exploits, obviously. It's the only leverage we have.
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I think deleting everything prematurely is... Well, premature.
Did you see Dr. Aeon's thread?
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agreed with this, his thread stated that this was just a blanket fix until they could fine tune it (and they stated it would come with i17 or very soon after)|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
But they haven't. Or at least they haven't said they were. In fact, they seem to entirely be implying that this is a temporary fix and they are working on a better solution.
I think deleting everything prematurely is... Well, premature. Did you see Dr. Aeon's thread? |
i left my story arc alone for now (honestly im tired of advertising it and its only gotten 4 ratings in the past 5 months since i redid it and all of them were people who played it with me)
other arcs i have i tweaked a little so that they would actually be some use if i needed tickets
Which Aeon's thread?
Check out all of Noble Savage's Art threads! All things art, Super Boosters, 'Lost' Costume Pieces, Buildings, Animations, and NPC Costume Piece Conversion
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...highlight=Aeon
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Originally Posted by Pedro Schwartz
Which Aeon's thread?
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If the patch is falsely treating things as exploits that aren't really, that would suggest that .... the patch is wrong and broken.|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
But they haven't. Or at least they haven't said they were. In fact, they seem to entirely be implying that this is a temporary fix and they are working on a better solution.
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If the patch is wrong and broken, and treats as exploits things that aren't really, the only right thing to do would be to revert it immediately, or at least within the next maintenance cycle. I'll at least give them enough leeway not to pull down the servers for a reverting patch cycle on the weekend.
Therefore, the patch cannot be wrong or broken, and must be working as intended. Everything that the patch treats as an exploit is indeed an exploit. Were this not the case, its immediate removal would at least have been announced by now, as the only conceivable right thing to do.
And since exploits are now defined by what the current patch treats as exploits, we'd do well to at least start planning to withdraw missions using exploits from circulation.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
You're just making a point, really, aren't you? Aeon has said that this fix is temporary and that a better one will come in I17 or soon after. You're just harming your own arcs or causing yourself unneseccary rewrites to add your allies back later, IMO.
Eco.
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
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See, I had a feeling of what you were doing, but I was trying to pretend like you weren't doing that. |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
If the patch is falsely treating things as exploits that aren't really, that would suggest that .... the patch is wrong and broken.
If the patch is wrong and broken, and treats as exploits things that aren't really, the only right thing to do would be to revert it immediately, or at least within the next maintenance cycle. I'll at least give them enough leeway not to pull down the servers for a reverting patch cycle on the weekend. Therefore, the patch cannot be wrong or broken, and must be working as intended. Everything that the patch treats as an exploit is indeed an exploit. Were this not the case, its immediate removal would at least have been announced by now, as the only conceivable right thing to do. And since exploits are now defined by what the current patch treats as exploits, we'd do well to at least start planning to withdraw missions using exploits from circulation. |
I guess I was wrong.
While I might agree that the Devs should have waited until they had a better fix working, I wouldn't declare that their current band-aide encroached upon some kind of moral depravity like you seem to be implying. Furthermore, if you had a point, just ****** say it, not make a whole thread acting all concerned about your poor AE missions, and then breaking down and admitting to what you're doing when nobody is baiting like you wanted.
Hera, you're just being a drama queen and no one really cares.
Yeah, any misisons with allies isn't giving good XP right now. No big deal, the AE shouldn't be giving rewards anyway.
Besides, using your logic, the devs consider enemy spawns of any sort to be exploits, as they've nerfed enemy abilities and XP over and over again since AE came out. Therefore, any missions with enemies are also exploits and you should delete all your missions which have any enemies at all in them.
*EYEROLL*
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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On the contrary, it's a big deal. The purpose of the AE was to give an alternate method of progressing through the game. You may think it shouldn't be giving rewards, but many other players, myself included, would strongly disagree.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Yeah, any misisons with allies isn't giving good XP right now. No big deal, the AE shouldn't be giving rewards anyway.
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Heraclea may be being overly dramatic, but I think in this case it's justified. Many non-exploitive players are impacted by this hotfix, and their missions are being drained of XP through no fault of their own. A number of objectives that make the missions interesting (including such things as simply freeing captives) will now reduce the XP of the mission.
Personally, I currently don't have any published arcs. I create arcs designed for my own characters. None of them are in any way exploitive in nature. I have a number of arcs that I publish just long enough to play them. But I still like to make my arcs interesting. I have more fun if I'm going after a good variety of objectives in the arc. Now I'll be reduced to creating much more simplistic arcs, and I'll have to do heavy rewrites if I want my old arcs to be useful.
I think the issue deserves a lot of complaints, to spur the devs to fix things fast. As it is, too many players are impacted too harshly.
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Something you don't hear a lot around here, but what Venture said.
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Originally Posted by Venture
All of my arcs are still playable.
You may not get full XP for them, but they're all playable. |
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Yes, I'm making a point. If the "fix" breaks so much, it's worse than what it was intended to cure. No conceivable exploit could possibly justify such a broken "fix". Reversion is the only right thing to do. |
Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan
You're just making a point, really, aren't you? Aeon has said that this fix is temporary and that a better one will come in I17 or soon after.
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Our existing arcs will grow stale and may be eventually replaced; losing our reviews and ratings is a small loss, compared to what we lose the longer this broken "fix" remains in place, which is the dwindling interest the player base to check out actual creative material.
Our willingness to volunteer the content in AE is our only point of leverage here. We need to use it to send a message. It may not be heard, but it's all we got, and doing nothing is not an option I can live with.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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That's a really backwards argument. The player base already didn't give a flying **** about your story missions because they were busy making and exploiting farming capabilities. Those who are really in it for the story likely didn't care about the EXP, and that likely hasn't changed with this (and I can't stress this enough.) TEMPORARY band-aide. |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Yes, I'm making a point. If the "fix" breaks so much, it's worse than what it was intended to cure. No conceivable exploit could possibly justify such a broken "fix". Reversion is the only right thing to do.
Our existing arcs will grow stale and may be eventually replaced; losing our reviews and ratings is a small loss, compared to what we lose the longer this broken "fix" remains in place, which is the dwindling interest the player base to check out actual creative material. Our willingness to volunteer the content in AE is our only point of leverage here. We need to use it to send a message. It may not be heard, but it's all we got, and doing nothing is not an option I can live with. |
This band-aide is actually taking steps to reverse that trend and make AE about creating stories again, instead of exploitative farming maps.
Will it make you feel better if I play your arcs?
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Is it really? If this were true, it would not treat basic story telling tools as exploits.
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
This band-aide is actually taking steps to reverse that trend and make AE about creating stories again, instead of exploitative farming maps.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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They aren't. It's a band-aide. It's not permanent. |
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Is it really? If this were true, it would not treat basic story telling tools as exploits.
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Figure that out already.
I don't have any published arcs, but the arc I've been working on finishing off and on for months now would be heavily impacted by this. Every single mission would lose large amounts of XP - the first since I use large numbers of battle details, the second for an ally that spawns for story reasons once the mission is *already done*, the third for the single non-buffing LT ally you free from her captivity, and the last (longest, and hence normally the most rewarding) for the several allies you lead in getting your collective revenge on the main antagonist.
From the numbers I've seen thrown around, I wouldn't be surprised if the arc as a whole takes at least a 50% XP hit, if not more. The first and last missions for sure won't be offering much XP.
I am indeed somewhat annoyed. If there really is a large problem with allies, then I do think they should try to fix it. But I *don't* think they should rush such an obviously fatally flawed fix out when they've already admitted that a better one is on the way.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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The question isn't whether it's permanent. It's whether it's published on live or not.
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Originally Posted by Warkupo
They aren't. It's a band-aide. It's not permanent.
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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Do you live in some kind of pseudo-reality then? Yes, it's live.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
The question isn't whether it's permanent. It's whether it's published on live or not.
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*EDIT* - Furthermore, weren't you stating that you were making a point? Now you're asking questions? Which is it, exactly?
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The problem is that a band-aid fix is supposed to make things partially better in anticipation of a permanent solution. However, this 'band-aid' doesn't actually make things any better. It doesn't do anything to stop the bleeding - it merely moves it to another location. A bandaid fix is supposed to make things at least a bit better - this one makes things *worse*.|
Originally Posted by Warkupo
They aren't. It's a band-aide. It's not permanent.
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I honestly think that the system would have been better off without this 'fix', even if that did allow whatever was the exploit of the day to persist until the permanent solution arrived. There isn't any point in trying to preserve the MA for stories if the same fix also wrecks so many storytelling opportunities. And from a practical standpoint, I'd rather not get the population as a whole even more accustomed to the idea that the MA is useless for both farming *and* storytelling.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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See, I would tend to disagree. Very few people were using AE for the intended goal of storytelling to begin with, so proclaiming that this band-aide somehow breaks something that was already broken is missing the point. Furthermore, people couldn't really *find* the story missions under the hoard of exploit missions, so, if anything, this band-aide helps in that it removes that clutter so that the actual story missions can be more easily found and enjoyed. |
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
The problem is that a band-aid fix is supposed to make things partially better in anticipation of a permanent solution. However, this 'band-aid' doesn't actually make things any better. It doesn't do anything to stop the bleeding - it merely moves it to another location. A bandaid fix is supposed to make things at least a bit better - this one makes things *worse*.
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Anyone who was looking for AE missions for the story probably are going to keep doing that. Anyone who was looking for AE missions for the EXP probably weren't selecting your missions anyway.
I'll agree that they probably should have waited until they had an actual fix before patching, but I wouldn't proclaim that this temporary fix is breaking anything either when the pieces were already in itty-bitty chunks of obliterated nothingness to begin with.
The following arcs of mine are still playable:
Deth Kick Champions, 390856
I had to edit out several exploits: ally boss spawns meant to represent spectators and cheer the player through the long march to the final chamber where the action takes place. They weren't actual allies, and weren't meant to interact with anything; they were just inserted to make speeches. This leaves that mission rather lacking in flavor until you get to the final room where the encounter takes place, but so it goes, and these exploits were not essential to the plot. Apart from that, all NPCs in the arc are hostile.
Ecloga Prima: Hæc excursio in lingua Latina, 309162
A simple arc whose texts are entirely in fairly elementary Latin, the custom mobs in the story are all hostile.
Welcome to the Future, 326600
This is only a personal sandbox arc used to test out custom group mixes and concepts. Originally, it was designed to show that the custom critter nerf achieved nothing. All mobs are hostile. They may change periodically.
The following arcs are no longer worth your time. You should avoid them. They are likely to be unpublished soon:
Death by Snoo-Snoo, 247372
Revolves entirely around the "rescue a captive" exploit. 10 captives, including one used as a gimmick to spawn the opening ambush. Not worth anyone's time now.
Who is Kidnapping the World's Greatest Philosophers, 253920
Ditto. And I had just finished updating this with new foes and encounters.
Lesbian Hellion Liberation, 208830
Relies on exploits like ally rescues and friendly patrols.
Jerk Hackers!, 162492
This one contains only three exploits: captive releases inserted for flavor in the last mission. I may edit them out, although it will leave the last mission rather lacking in events.
I have already pulled The Great American Skull Fry!. This was my Dr. Aeon lowbie contest entry. The first mission relied entirely on multiple allies as plot elements, and as such was unsalvageably reliant on exploits.
I'd recommend that other authors review their missions for exploits like captive releases. Officially, now, AE is only for filling up maps full of hostile mobs; all other interactions are exploits.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison