Evil Scientist in BB should tell you that you can't refill Shivans.
By
Clebstein,
Posted on: 2010-04-03 15:44 in Suggestions and Ideas
and you couldn't figure this out from ALL of the other temp powers that we have that work the same way? this is suggestions and ideas, not whiners and complainers.
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I never came across this issue before.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
and you couldn't figure this out from ALL of the other temp powers that we have that work the same way? this is suggestions and ideas, not whiners and complainers.
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missing the obvious is a talent of the Original Poster.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
and you couldn't figure this out from ALL of the other temp powers that we have that work the same way? this is suggestions and ideas, not whiners and complainers.
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I NEVER CAME ACROSS THIS ISSUE BEFORE. I usually don't refill temp powers until they expire. Please stop being such a horrible person to me.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
missing the obvious is a talent of the Original Poster.
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and that is what the shivan summon is. a temp power. that can only be refilled when it is empty.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
missing the obvious is a talent of the Original Poster.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
and you couldn't figure this out from ALL of the other temp powers that we have that work the same way? this is suggestions and ideas, not whiners and complainers.
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So, yes, a comment that "If you're going for a new set, you may want to use your old ones up" would not be out of line - nor would it be a lot of work to add a line or two of text. If someone ignored that line, well, that's completely their fault. (And yes, adding it to - say - jetpacks and such would not be out of line either.)
It's far easier to add a line or two of text than it would be to recode powers to "refill."
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My... basic... problem with this is that there's a "lot", and we'll put quotes on that, of limited "stuff" that's in the game that isn't clearly documented, but players appear to be expected to "figure it out on their own". I think the "rule of 5 IO enhancement bonus stacks" is one such limited area of the game that isn't spelled out in the game itself. Other such limits include the diminishing returns on Merit rewards for Task Forces, and enhancement diversification. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
While I might not be the OP's biggest fan, I have to say these aren't exactly fair comments. A new user may *not* know this. And so many of the temp powers we get are *not* refillable (War Wolves, for instance - ok, barring Ouroboros for most.)
So, yes, a comment that "If you're going for a new set, you may want to use your old ones up" would not be out of line - nor would it be a lot of work to add a line or two of text. If someone ignored that line, well, that's completely their fault. (And yes, adding it to - say - jetpacks and such would not be out of line either.) It's far easier to add a line or two of text than it would be to recode powers to "refill." |
As I understand the comments from the developers during Hero-Con, and I believe such was repeated at PAX, the developers are aware that the existing tutorials do not entirely cover, or explain, aspects of the game. As I understand the developer's statement(s) on the subject, the "new" tutorial system with Going Rogue is supposed to address some of these in-game limits.
Given that the developers are aware that there is a problem with the way some of the information is presented, and have already announced that they are in the process of coming up with better ways to present that information, I'm in favor of waiting and actually seeing what the developers are going to do... Instead of simply throwing ideas out at random and seeing if any stick.
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Tutorials are one thing - but the starting tutorial (which I'm assuming they mean) (a) can't be too long, and (b) can't, and won't, cover everything. Especially when they have things that would be introduced later in the game. Why would they, for instance, cover "Most temp powers aren't refillable, the ones that are need to be used up first" when you don't run into that for quite some time? (And would someone remember it when they did?) |
Originally Posted by je_saist
My... basic... problem with this is that there's a "lot", and we'll put quotes on that, of limited "stuff" that's in the game that isn't clearly documented, but players appear to be expected to "figure it out on their own". I think the "rule of 5 IO enhancement bonus stacks" is one such limited area of the game that isn't spelled out in the game itself. Other such limits include the diminishing returns on Merit rewards for Task Forces, and enhancement diversification.
As I understand the comments from the developers during Hero-Con, and I believe such was repeated at PAX, the developers are aware that the existing tutorials do not entirely cover, or explain, aspects of the game. As I understand the developer's statement(s) on the subject, the "new" tutorial system with Going Rogue is supposed to address some of these in-game limits. Given that the developers are aware that there is a problem with the way some of the information is presented, and have already announced that they are in the process of coming up with better ways to present that information, I'm in favor of waiting and actually seeing what the developers are going to do... Instead of simply throwing ideas out at random and seeing if any stick. |
Regardless, even if they DID cover something about temp powers and refilling, a small reminder wouldn't hurt.
There are a lot of little things like this that would benefit from simply adding one or two more lines of text to explain them in more detail. I can remember my first trip to Croatoa to turn in Halloween Salvage and I had no clue where to loacte Annah. To make matters worse it was during the day, while most players were at work, and the ONLY person in the zone decided to be cute and didn't want to tell me unless I agreed to team with him. Fortunately I found her on my own after a short search.
Until someone decides to do that however:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Temporary_Powers
This section of the Wiki gives a deteailed description of ever known temp power, number of uses, etc. And shown below is the text on the Shivan Shard power....
Description
Using this weird 'Shiva Shard' while near the ground allows you to summon forth a powerful Shivan Decimator to fight at your side. The Shivan can be buffed and healed, but is an unwilling companion and will not follow you through doors or into new zones. The shard can summon 5 Shivans before it is drained.
How to Get
To obtain this temporary power, complete Shiva Strike Mission in Bloody Bay. A character can obtain the Shivan Shard an unlimited number of times, but may only have one in his or her possession at a time.
Power Summary
Duration 5 uses
Effects Summon Shivan Decimator
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
It really seems like reasonable a confusion/request because:
1) Most temp powers in the game cannot be re-obtained at all, but the Shivans can.
2) A lot of day job powers can be refilled without completely using them. (Yes they're not the same, but they're a similar concept.)
3) It's just a little bit of text! It's not like a request for hours and hours of coding.
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Isn't this just a tad bit ironic?
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Originally Posted by je_saist
missing the obvious is a talent of the Original Poster.
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@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
If you refill the Shivans with helium, they float away.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Coming soon to Atlas Park! The Easter Day Parade, complete with floating shivans!
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If you refill the Shivans with helium, they float away.
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They'll wrestle with the blimp.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Coming soon to Atlas Park! The Easter Day Parade, complete with floating shivans!
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
And now you know so don't do that anymore. I learned the hard way just like you but rather than compalin that it should be "fixed" I went on with my life with a lesson learned.
It is because of people like you that we have warnings on Preperation H to not take oraly.
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don't forget the Hot Coffee warning on Coffee Cups!
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Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
And now you know so don't do that anymore. I learned the hard way just like you but rather than compalin that it should be "fixed" I went on with my life with a lesson learned.
It is because of people like you that we have warnings on Preperation H to not take oraly. |
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There is no way for me to scientifically KNOW I couldn't refill with a use remaining unless I reverse-engineered the source code, which is illegal. You lose.
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Originally Posted by HelinCarnate
And now you know so don't do that anymore. I learned the hard way just like you but rather than compalin that it should be "fixed" I went on with my life with a lesson learned.
It is because of people like you that we have warnings on Preperation H to not take oraly. |
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you don't need to scientifically know. all you had to do was ask before trying to do it. common sense for the win.
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
There is no way for me to scientifically KNOW I couldn't refill with a use remaining unless I reverse-engineered the source code, which is illegal. You lose.
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Can I go use the bathroom? Pretty please? :< I need to. Please!?
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
you don't need to scientifically know. all you had to do was ask before trying to do it. common sense for the win.
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since you want to be a total ***, no. common sense tells you that if you are unsure or don't know the answer to something, you ask questions. or look it up.
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
Can I go use the bathroom? Pretty please? :< I need to. Please!?
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
you don't need to scientifically know. all you had to do was ask before trying to do it. common sense for the win.
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| common sense tells you that if you are unsure or don't know the answer to something, you ask questions. or look it up. |
I stress, above, "you have to ask the right person." Not everyone has the right information - I'm sure if I went about randomly asking people in game, I'd be told Shivans can't be refilled at all (like most temp powers,) or that they can be refilled at any time, or any number of other things. It's no different than "Stealth powers keep Heavies from spawning in invasions," which I've had people argue with me over even after telling them the fact they were wrong had confirmation directly from the dev team.
There is no fault in asking for this information - for a temp power that, being renewable itself, is in sparse company - to be put into its description, any more than specifying when a power has a timer whether it's time in use, time in game, or real time.
Also, powers will always be added to this game, or changed. Who, then, should someone ask, or where should they go to look it up? The help system tends not to get updated, and at this point is a tad unwieldy. And again, not everyone knows about Paragon Wiki (for instance,) nor would they know - if they happened to look up the name - if they're going to the correct one (the Wikia site being out of date and hijacked.)
This information should be in game, obvious and accessible to all.
Jeez, some one makes a suggestion that could help new (and even some veteran) players, and most of the responses are just people claiming it's HIS fault he didn't know.
And that's terrible.
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Cleb: if you didn't know, you can track the posts each person makes by clicking on their name, clicking view profile clicking on Statistics, and then clicking on Find All Posts By *Name* |
Originally Posted by Clebstein
Jeez, some one makes a suggestion that could help new (and even some veteran) players, and most of the responses are just people claiming it's HIS fault he didn't know.
And that's terrible. |
Most of the ugly responses here to TCS are because of his, well, posting history.
I stand by my statements earlier in the thread: The developers are aware that not all information is correctly transmitted to the players in the confines of the game's text entrys, nor is such information communicated through the in-game help. The developers have also stated, pretty explicitly, that Going Rogue's tutorial system will be addressing many of the existing shortfalls.
Now, I invite you to read the first post again. TCS doesn't come in and ask a question. He does not ask something like:
TCS: I have 3 shivans left in my temporary power. I just ran through the Bloody Bay and did the missions again, and I still have only 3 shivans left. Are My shivans supposed to refill if I run the mission again?Instead, we got a title calling the Scientist who gives the mission Evil, and a short statement of effect that redoing the mission did not refill the Shivans. There wasn't any actual suggestion made. There was no question asked.
Forum User: Hi there TCS. Many temporary powers can-not be refilled once you have them, and many can not be replaced. Shivans can be replaced, but only if you have used them all up. There's an entry at the Paragon Wiki on Temporary Powers that you might find interesting: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Temporary_Power
TCS: Thank you, I'll make sure I tell other players about this when I encounter them in the game.
This is why Sharker and I climbed his case as we did. TCS came onto the forums, left a nasty-gram, and got called on it, by multiple players.
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I try that with my cat once, Didn't really work out to Well |
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
If you refill the Shivans with helium, they float away.
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Only that you can replace it once all 5 are used. Turning in the mission with 1 use still left does not set your uses to 5.