Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Character Level
By
Fulmens,
Posted on: 2010-04-01 08:37 in Suggestions and Ideas
This kinda negates the big reason they -gave- us Merits rather than just random rolls: To let people pick their recipes.
There was a lot of bluster on the forums about finding the wrong recipe or farming a TF for 6 straight hours without getting either a recipe the character could use -or- a recipe worth half a darn on the market. Devs put in Merits and players started saving them up for the really rare recipes.
Having lower level characters spend less on random rolls won't help that problem. Instead you'll get a bunch of people who cap their XP at 35 or so, then run low-level task forces in merit-farms for rolls on the low-end of some of the better sets on the market (30-50 sets are (generally) the best)
There isn't a whole lot of difference between a level 35 Def/End/Rech IO and a level 50 Def/End/Rech IO.
So you'd mostly see level 35 recipe farmers and a decline in some of the higher end recipes hitting the market, especially at the appropriate levels.
-Rachel-
Quote:
True, that was part of why they were put in. From my standpoint though, there were at least two other big reasons: 1) to attempt to fine-tune rewards for TF by effort (Katie != Dr. Q) and 2) to reward other non-TF tasks (story arcs). As a soloist, that last one was HUGELY appreciated.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
This kinda negates the big reason they -gave- us Merits rather than just random rolls: To let people pick their recipes.
There was a lot of bluster on the forums about finding the wrong recipe or farming a TF for 6 straight hours without getting either a recipe the character could use -or- a recipe worth half a darn on the market. Devs put in Merits and players started saving them up for the really rare recipes. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Having lower level characters spend less on random rolls won't help that problem. Instead you'll get a bunch of people who cap their XP at 35 or so, then run low-level task forces in merit-farms for rolls on the low-end of some of the better sets on the market (30-50 sets are (generally) the best)
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
There isn't a whole lot of difference between a level 35 Def/End/Rech IO and a level 50 Def/End/Rech IO.
So you'd mostly see level 35 recipe farmers and a decline in some of the higher end recipes hitting the market, especially at the appropriate levels. -Rachel- |
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Quote:
/unsigned. there is no need to do anything to the random rolls.
|
Originally Posted by gec72
This is a pretty straight-forward idea (and again, apologies if it's already been suggested) to go along with my previous idea on recrafting IO to change their levels to help even out the level spread of IO.
Make it cheaper for lower level characters to roll a random recipe. More people might be inclined to roll their merits as they get them rather than saving them for level 50 (which they could still do if they chose to). Could be even something as simple as: Level 1-20: 10 merits/random roll Level 21-40: 15 merits/random roll Level 41-50: 20 merits/random roll Base this not on recipe level (like tickets) but by character level (natural...don't want people going to Oroboros before rolling). Give the lower level toons a little more purchasing power, w/o bumping the merits given out for early arcs (which can be exploited by higher toons). |
I would be happy to roll to a specific level, meaning I random roll at lvl30 and get a lvl30recipe, even though my 50 is rolling and the range is 30 to 50.
Or even an option to random roll within the whole range so that I get anything from lvl30 to a lvl50 - just to add in the market more mid-level items.
Not sure if this would be a problem in your idea but you can already turn off exp and if you have the Pillar of Flame and Ice in your base you can gather up merits over and over at a low level.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
Fair enough. Out of curiosity though, is this because the supposed problem - an inadequate supply of lower-level recipes from merit rolls - doesn't need fixing, or because the approach of the fix itself is flawed?
|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
/unsigned. there is no need to do anything to the random rolls.
|
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Quote:
you idea is bad. if you want to fill the mid level ranges, turn off your xp and run your story arcs and tf/sf's and ouro to get merits to random roll. there is no need to change how much random rolls cost. or do the same thing with the AE. if you go the ouro route, you will drop recipes as well as merits for completeing arcs. in the AE you can random roll tickets.
|
Originally Posted by gec72
Fair enough. Out of curiosity though, is this because the supposed problem - an inadequate supply of lower-level recipes from merit rolls - doesn't need fixing, or because the approach of the fix itself is flawed?
|
Quote:
Sharker beat me to this. |
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
you idea is bad. if you want to fill the mid level ranges, turn off your xp and run your story arcs and tf/sf's and ouro to get merits to random roll. there is no need to change how much random rolls cost. or do the same thing with the AE. if you go the ouro route, you will drop recipes as well as merits for completeing arcs. in the AE you can random roll tickets.
|
The idea itself is inherently flawed. It depends on an honest player base... and lets be honest... the market abusers / market farmers are not exactly into playing the game honestly. We've seen quite a few dishonest suggestions float across these forums on how players can make lots of influence at low levels.
If there was not a concern with players turning off exp and re-running task-forces like Synapse Task Force and Cap SF, as well as any new low-level TF in Going Rogue, on repeated basis, the idea might work. The temptation to limit my characters to 20 and just farm the heck out of Synapse for merits and get rolls of 10 per random roll would just be too much fun to get some of those low level procs..
raise the level a bit, and in the 30's, I'm looking at Luck of the Gambler and Numina procs that would be cheaper to get by running the older Positron Task Force (which should be in Ourobous, might not be) and getting massive merit rewards with lower reward roll costs.
Positron has already intimated that they, the developers, are aware of the market supply problems: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=167
They, the developers, also have some plans to address the market supply issues, but aren't ready to talk about those issues yet. My suspicion is that some of these answers will arrive with Going Rogue, and / or that the extensive Going Rogue test will be used to get some hard-numbers on how exactly these solutions work when presented to the player base.
Quote:
/this. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
The idea itself is inherently flawed. It depends on an honest player base... and lets be honest... the market abusers / market farmers are not exactly into playing the game honestly. We've seen quite a few dishonest suggestions float across these forums on how players can make lots of influence at low levels.
|
Though - and I haven't paid attention to the price of these things, tbh - what I had in mind were KB resist recipes. They start at... oh, 10 or 15, one of the two. So, get someone to that base level, AE to death and just keep rolling. Cheap random rolls? Who cares if I get 30 Fear recipes in that case? It's not as big a risk.
Intent - ok. Execution = abusable.
Quote:
So...it's a bad idea not because the supply will go up, but because the supply will go up because the bad people will be producing the rolls (which some are already trying to do)? Or that others would be tempted to do the same? That was really the point: to encourage players to play characters other than their 50s, and to encourage players to roll merits before they get to 50, to make for a healthier sub-50 market (I'd rather have a market with more goods than have to park my own toon just to churn merits).|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Sharker beat me to this.
The idea itself is inherently flawed. It depends on an honest player base... and lets be honest... the market abusers / market farmers are not exactly into playing the game honestly. We've seen quite a few dishonest suggestions float across these forums on how players can make lots of influence at low levels. |
If the devs are on top of it though and are working on other solutions that's good, because I'd love to see a greater recipe spread, at least red-side.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Quote:
I guess this is actually part of my frustration. Until very recently, my play pattern has been to play a character to 50, then soon after start a new character. That character would level and outfit itself on its own merits, without help from my higher level characters.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
/this.
Though - and I haven't paid attention to the price of these things, tbh - what I had in mind were KB resist recipes. They start at... oh, 10 or 15, one of the two. So, get someone to that base level, AE to death and just keep rolling. Cheap random rolls? Who cares if I get 30 Fear recipes in that case? It's not as big a risk. Intent - ok. Execution = abusable. |
With my last 50 though, it became really apparent to me that this wasn't the easiest way to go (edit: took me a dozen characters to finally feel this way). I just wasn't producing enough recipes, merits or inf naturally on my lower level characters to outfit them. It became much easier to play my 50, rack up insane amounts of inf, and then have him purchase everything. Or in the case of Touch of Deaths, GoTA and other sets that stop at 40, have *him* churn tickets in AE. It was just more efficient for him to produce the goods rather than the lower-level toons. I'd like to see that shift some, especially for players who may not have a 50 to help trick them out.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Quote:
How is that dishonest or abusable? I am asking that seriously because that is exactly what I do with my lowbie heroes and villains after I get the Atlas Park mayhem/safeguard I play in AE to 10 and take my rolls and take the recipes to market.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
/this.
Though - and I haven't paid attention to the price of these things, tbh - what I had in mind were KB resist recipes. They start at... oh, 10 or 15, one of the two. So, get someone to that base level, AE to death and just keep rolling. Cheap random rolls? Who cares if I get 30 Fear recipes in that case? It's not as big a risk. Intent - ok. Execution = abusable. |
People flew by level 10 and missed out on the KBs and want them at level 10 and they pay 5, 10, 20 million or more for them. If I weren't doing this then the supply would be that much lower and the prices would be even higher.
My level 10 has a huge nestegg to live off of and someone got a KB resist at the level they wanted. How is this bad? If someone wants one but doesn't want to pay they can do the same thing themselves. In fact that was how I got started doing it.
total kick to the gut
This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.
Quote:
Like what? How is making a ton of influence at low levels dishonest or bad in anyway? You can say you've seen "dishonest" suggestions, but without citing anything the statement is pretty meaningless.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Sharker beat me to this.
The idea itself is inherently flawed. It depends on an honest player base... and lets be honest... the market abusers / market farmers are not exactly into playing the game honestly. We've seen quite a few dishonest suggestions float across these forums on how players can make lots of influence at low levels. |
Quote:
| If there was not a concern with players turning off exp and re-running task-forces like Synapse Task Force and Cap SF, as well as any new low-level TF in Going Rogue, on repeated basis, the idea might work. The temptation to limit my characters to 20 and just farm the heck out of Synapse for merits and get rolls of 10 per random roll would just be too much fun to get some of those low level procs.. |
Quote:
|
Positron has already intimated that they, the developers, are aware of the market supply problems: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=167 They, the developers, also have some plans to address the market supply issues, but aren't ready to talk about those issues yet. My suspicion is that some of these answers will arrive with Going Rogue, and / or that the extensive Going Rogue test will be used to get some hard-numbers on how exactly these solutions work when presented to the player base. |
Though I still prefer being able to pick the level of the recipe when I roll. But that is probably because I can rack up merits a ton faster on my level 50s then I possibly could on a character permanently parked at levels 15-33.
Sorry to dig this thread back up- I missed it the first time for some reason.
Quote:
I'm one of the people mentioned in this thread who "Does exactly that." It's a whole lotta effort for not much return. Now I don't have a huge pack of fire/kins doing it- and kudos to the guys in Midlife Crisis who DO run lowbie fire/kins- but I have to tell you, trying to supply 100K other players is not as easy as you make it sound. I've got a lot of crap for sale at low levels, and occasionally someone buys it, but through my own efforts I highly doubt I've created enough stuff to fully equip even one high-end, low-level build.
| you idea is bad. if you want to fill the mid level ranges, turn off your xp and run your story arcs and tf/sf's and ouro to get merits to random roll. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
This is a pretty straight-forward idea (and again, apologies if it's already been suggested) to go along with my previous idea on recrafting IO to change their levels to help even out the level spread of IO.
Make it cheaper for lower level characters to roll a random recipe.
More people might be inclined to roll their merits as they get them rather than saving them for level 50 (which they could still do if they chose to).
Could be even something as simple as:
Level 1-20: 10 merits/random roll
Level 21-40: 15 merits/random roll
Level 41-50: 20 merits/random roll
Base this not on recipe level (like tickets) but by character level (natural...don't want people going to Oroboros before rolling). Give the lower level toons a little more purchasing power, w/o bumping the merits given out for early arcs (which can be exploited by higher toons).
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level