I find DP anything in broadcast amusing but mainly because the devs have pulled the, "look how shiney on the out side, no need to look under the hood" car salesman trick on the unsuspecting casual player.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
My amusement comes from my sick mind however in response to your post I dont think the set is as bad as some say. I think its a solid pve set that allows for some concepts people have wanted for a long time.
Having said that though I do think the gun fu moves can be a bit over the top (really dont like empty clips) and the bullet rain i think it is. The targeted aoe anyway is more than a little silly looking with the arcing bullets. I think they should have just stuck with cones. A longer range narrow one and a short range wide one would have been fine. I do like the tier 9 though it does seem to have too long of a recharge when compared to Archery and AR.
*readies fire extinguisher*
I had to look it up just now, so no, I didn't get it.
Its a pity Dark Melee isn't called Dark Void or Dark Violence. Dark/Dark scrappers would have such a cool acronym then.
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It's not as solid as it "should" have been and it really is as bad as most people (not the haters, the number crunchers) make it out to be. Out side of incendiary rounds it's has the worst AoE DPA and 2nd worst single target DPA. The nuke is little more than a tool to get your self killed and violates the dam/rech rule especially when compared to the other weapon set nukes.|
Originally Posted by Vicar
My amusement comes from my sick mind however in response to your post I dont think the set is as bad as some say. I think its a solid pve set that allows for some concepts people have wanted for a long time.
Having said that though I do think the gun fu moves can be a bit over the top (really dont like empty clips) and the bullet rain i think it is. The targeted aoe anyway is more than a little silly looking with the arcing bullets. I think they should have just stuck with cones. A longer range narrow one and a short range wide one would have been fine. I do like the tier 9 though it does seem to have too long of a recharge when compared to Archery and AR. |
It should have allowed players to build all the broad range of concepts that they had in mind instead of the very narrow Gun Fu ones. I know none of my Dual pistols concepts fit the animations and so I'll be waiting until the set is both buffed to at least a mid tier of performance and given alternate "power customization" animations. Past dev track records demonstrate this to be in the 1-3 year range for buffs so for me it won't be any time "soon" (TM).
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
It might coming sooner rather than later. Don't get me wrong, I'm not an expert in this sort of thing but the devs have been really, really REALLY throwing everything at Going Rouge, and both Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning are two of the big things in it. Chances are they'll buff damage a bit sooner rather then later.
Alternete animations... Probably longer, yeah.
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Neither are as bad as DP/Pain... |
Originally Posted by Vicar
I see in broadcast "DP Blaster LFT". DP defender is almost as bad.
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LMAO. Yes I snicker everytime I read it or type it myself.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Neither are as bad as DP/Pain...
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Heheheheheheheheheheheheh.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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depends on the perspective... lucky there's no DP/SM :P
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Neither are as bad as DP/Pain...
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http://www.scene-and-heard.com/cov/covsig.jpg
There was a huge thread about this in the beta section that exploded into giggling and pointing at the immature, I wish I had copied that thread into a word document, there was seome serious lulz to be had there.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Is it the worst blast set, numbers wise?
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
I find DP anything in broadcast amusing but mainly because the devs have pulled the, "look how shiney on the out side, no need to look under the hood" car salesman trick on the unsuspecting casual player.
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Forgot about that one, honestly was joking about making a corruptor named Painful DP.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Neither are as bad as DP/Pain...
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Decided not to get in trouble though heh.
*readies fire extinguisher*
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With non-incendiary rounds it's the worst DPA for AoE and 2nd worst for single target.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
Is it the worst blast set, numbers wise?
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-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
No matter how you slice it, SOMETHING is going to be the worst.
It got unique animations, and people complain that they're too long.
It's damage sucks! I don't like the gun-fu! Different ammo types don't do anything! And so on and so on.
Not every set is going to be better than anything else they've ever done, or it will get ridiculous pretty quickly.
Willpower came out and it was the best set for a while, then Shields came out and IT was the best set. Mental Manipulation, same thing. Seriously, does every set HAVE to be absolutely OMG awesome?
I guess people are just more interested in being powerful than in having a well crafted character who is fun to play.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I for one am saying that it can be improved compared to itself. It isn't an issue of being more powerful, stronger, faster, etc... It is a balance issue and the developer did not balance a few powers to where they should be.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
No matter how you slice it, SOMETHING is going to be the worst.
It got unique animations, and people complain that they're too long. It's damage sucks! I don't like the gun-fu! Different ammo types don't do anything! And so on and so on. Not every set is going to be better than anything else they've ever done, or it will get ridiculous pretty quickly. Willpower came out and it was the best set for a while, then Shields came out and IT was the best set. Mental Manipulation, same thing. Seriously, does every set HAVE to be absolutely OMG awesome? I guess people are just more interested in being powerful than in having a well crafted character who is fun to play. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Willpower, Shields, /mind and even Psychic Blast and Sonic Blast were all very well done power sets. They don't all appeal to every player but they were well thought out and, in my opinion, fun. Part of being fun however, at least for me, is being effective. I just haven't found that effectiveness with Dual Pistols. I would have easily settled for middle of the road since I love the animations, but right now the set feels like a death trap.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Willpower came out and it was the best set for a while, then Shields came out and IT was the best set. Mental Manipulation, same thing. Seriously, does every set HAVE to be absolutely OMG awesome? |
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - George Orwell
Hehehehehehe..
I also snicker at the fact you pointed this out and your name's Vicar
I am the Blaster, I have filled the role of Tank, Controller and Defender
Sometimes all at once.
Union EU player! Pip pip, tally ho, top hats and tea etc etc
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Did it occur to anyone that they may have released it underpowered on purpose so they can datamine it's performance compared to other sets in order to balance it where it should be? |
Originally Posted by Santorican
I for one am saying that it can be improved compared to itself. It isn't an issue of being more powerful, stronger, faster, etc... It is a balance issue and the developer did not balance a few powers to where they should be.
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I mean, when it was in beta testing, was anyone really playing any other set to compare it too? Or was everyone checking out the new shiny?
They may have done it like this so when it's adjusted based on their datamining they can buff it, rather than releasing it too strong and having to nerf it. If they give it a buff, most of the people I have seen commenting on it would be pleased, while if they found themselves having to nerf it, a lot of people would be pissed.
It makes sense to have people underwhelmed now and happy later, as opposed to happy now and pissed later.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I remember that thread because I started it. And no I didn't save it. I think it best that it disappears into the ether only because I think some people were offended by it. Oh well...
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Originally Posted by Santorican
There was a huge thread about this in the beta section that exploded into giggling and pointing at the immature, I wish I had copied that thread into a word document, there was seome serious lulz to be had there.
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Some people get way too offended way too easily heh.
On the Vicar part being ironic, ya it does not really fit me heh. I was naming my toons stuff like Dark Vicar and Psionic Vicar for awhile because i was getting tired of taking 30 mins to come up with names hehe. Ive gone back to more origional names but ive kept the global.
On the dual pistols performance topic. I do agree that there are a few things that need adjusting however I am not as rabid as some and I realize that maybe this time they learned their lesson and released something a bit under the bar and will adjust it up.
Far few people will complain about a buff than they would with a nerf.
*readies fire extinguisher*
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You are of course right on all counts which is also where the problem lies.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
No matter how you slice it, SOMETHING is going to be the worst.
It got unique animations, and people complain that they're too long. It's damage sucks! I don't like the gun-fu! Different ammo types don't do anything! And so on and so on. |
I think many more people would be happy if the animations had been unique yet middle of the road for animation time. It shows that the devs haven't really learned their history lessons from Archery and Assault Rifle.
In regards to blast sets the devs have, with defiance 2.0, demonstrated that a blaster's survival is intended to be by defeating enemies quickly. Long animations reduce DPA and therefore run counter to that assertion. The only case that animations have been left slow have been in the case of powerful debuffs as secondary effects such as sonic. In the case of Dual Pistols the secondary effects were purposely reduced to offset the ability to change ammo types. Changing ammo types simply doesn't cut the mustard in comparison to what it costs in effectiveness. It's a double ding for the set.
I play City of Heroes because I like more choices. IO sets were a stroke of genius because it means that no 2 Fire/Energy/Force blasters need be identical ever again. IO sets give us the same choices with our powers that the costume creator does with our appearance. This is where the problems with the Gun Fu animations arise. The only choice for character concept is gun fu. This is a restriction not a benefit.
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| Not every set is going to be better than anything else they've ever done, or it will get ridiculous pretty quickly. |
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| Willpower came out and it was the best set for a while, then Shields came out and IT was the best set. Mental Manipulation, same thing. Seriously, does every set HAVE to be absolutely OMG awesome? |
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| I guess people are just more interested in being powerful than in having a well crafted character who is fun to play. |
The devs had the opportunity to make the thing that was unique about the set (swap ammo) the thing that it did well. That isn't the path they tread. They went in the opposite direction and made the unique thing about the set a power that is easily skipped. That's the same mistake they made with Grant Cover for Shields.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Did it occur to anyone that they may have released it underpowered on purpose so they can datamine it's performance compared to other sets in order to balance it where it should be?
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| I mean, when it was in beta testing, was anyone really playing any other set to compare it too? Or was everyone checking out the new shiny? |
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They may have done it like this so when it's adjusted based on their datamining they can buff it, rather than releasing it too strong and having to nerf it. If they give it a buff, most of the people I have seen commenting on it would be pleased, while if they found themselves having to nerf it, a lot of people would be pissed. It makes sense to have people underwhelmed now and happy later, as opposed to happy now and pissed later. |
My wife and I were both going to pre-order GR. We were invited to the beta for DP. DP's condition is the main reason we decided not to pre-order GR (separate markets is the secondary reason) and are taking a wait and see attitude.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Even with incendiary rounds it's one of the worst. The fact that Psychic Blast deals significantly more single target DPS than DP (regardless of ammo type) should tell you something...|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
With non-incendiary rounds it's the worst DPA for AoE and 2nd worst for single target.
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DP w/incendiary is almost exactly equal to Energy Blast in terms of single target and AoE damage if you ignore the tier 9 powers. Nova wipes whole spawns once every 3-4 minutes but causes downtime, Hail of Bullets often fails to kill minions, aggroes whole spawns, and then causes downtime while you rez. When well buffed or teamed with a good tank HoB is better than Nova because you can use it more often and it has no crash, but without buffs or good aggro control it's too dangerous to use on a spawn you can't solo and it can't work as an emergency button like a real nuke can. Overall I'd call the two sets balanced... except that Energy Blast has pretty good mitigation due to the knockback while incendiary rounds have no secondary effect at all (the DoT is already factored in when I say it matches Energy's damage). Swapping to any other ammo type makes your damage worse than Energy Blast, while also still having weaker secondary effects.
So yes, DP is pretty much the worst blast set since it's always in the bottom two or three for damage (if not at the bottom) regardless of situation and has the worst secondary effects (other than Fire and Archery, which have none). The selectable damage types and secondary effects don't mean much when you're picking between four options that are all worse in almost every situation than the single option other sets give...
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
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[Smirnoff]In Soviet Dual Pistols, nuke kills you![/Smirnoff]
The best comics are still 10�!
My City of Heroes Blog Freedom Feature Article: "Going Rageless?"
If you only read one guide this year, make it this one.
Super Reflexes: the Golden Fox of power sets!
WARNING: I bold names.
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Yet a Dual Pistols character can indiscriminitely fire AoEs at crowds of enemies without the team wanting to kill him.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Overall I'd call the two sets balanced... except that Energy Blast has pretty good mitigation due to the knockback while incendiary rounds have no secondary effect at all (the DoT is already factored in when I say it matches Energy's damage). Swapping to any other ammo type makes your damage worse than Energy Blast, while also still having weaker secondary effects.
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I see in broadcast "DP Blaster LFT". DP defender is almost as bad.
Now for those that do not understand what I mean. . . . well lets just say my mind naturally trys to twist even the most innocent phrase into something inappropriate.
Still not sure what I mean.... well count yourself lucky. For those of you that do, anyone else find this amusing.
Anyway myself I will be refering to dual pistols as pistols for short. Hopefully ive been vague enough not to offend anyone.
*readies fire extinguisher*