Now, I remember a few years back, World of Warcraft had a big stink over gambling. I don't remember the exact issue or what it all pertained too so you may want to look that up as to the reasons. I dunno if there were issues with internet gambling laws or what. Its something to keep an eye on before this actually happens. I don't want anyone getting in trouble over stuff like this.
There are places where internet gambling are illegal. Adding ingame betting would create a huge legal nightmare for NCSoft.
�Let there be truth, happiness, and waffles�
-Vagabond, Dark Lord & Avatar of Gnarr
The Justiciars
Eh. Suppose I should keep my great ideas to myself, then. They made an arena with NPCs all around talking about bets. Its a club, for god sakes. I don't think it would be that big of a deal. I'll do some research, though.
Yeah, I always thought a betting system would be fun but as any villain will tell ya, the law takes the fun outa everything.
There are also "state" regulations that would would have to get involved. Yes, even for a videogame that would be giving away non-monitary prizes. States like Rhode Island have some pretty strange/strict gambling laws.
It's why NCsoft adds the little "excluding Rhode Island" when it comes to giveaways and contests. Way too many problems when it comes to explaining to the state government what the contest is, what it's about, what it's worth, and what can be taxed on it. :/
pohsyb: so of all people you must be most excited about the veats
Arachnos Commander: actually, I am
pohsyb: I mean you kinda were one already anyways ^_^
Arachnos Commander:
I think it sounds cool...
Well they allow auctioning off people and themselves >_> heh its just a more advanced verison 
Issue 24 PPM Calculator // The Great Makeover: The Vindicators
Whoa, ya'll...I think you're jumpin' the shark here.
I think what OP is talking about is simply PvP for influence. In game currency. Which is, in truth, no different from costume contests or the remake the freedom phalanx competition.
This one just involves PvP.
"People who take offense to IC actions OOCly need to learn to differentiate between the two... Or change their damn meds."
Yeah, I'm just talking about in-game currency, influence and infamy.
Moneymakers United is a new SG, on Virtue. It's dedicated to the goal of making an elaborate betting system. Hopefully it works out.
No, see, there's a difference between a costume contest with a prize pool and one where people place bets on the outcome of an event. It would be like a costume contest but instead of the contest winner getting the prize pool, the audiance made bets on who the judges would choose and the people who choose correctly got the money.
Then, there's the big issue of the possibility of fixed matches, the house always wins, yada yada yada.
Betting is *not* like a costume contest. Now, a PvP tourney where the winner gets a prize pool, that should be fine. Actual placing of bets though bring a whole different set of issues to the table, though.
Quote:
And that's all valid. I guess. But, does it break any rules to do this?|
Originally Posted by Mutant_Dream
No, see, there's a difference between a costume contest with a prize pool and one where people place bets on the outcome of an event. It would be like a costume contest but instead of the contest winner getting the prize pool, the audiance made bets on who the judges would choose and the people who choose correctly got the money.
Then, there's the big issue of the possibility of fixed matches, the house always wins, yada yada yada. Betting is *not* like a costume contest. Now, a PvP tourney where the winner gets a prize pool, that should be fine. Actual placing of bets though bring a whole different set of issues to the table, though. |
I'm thinking "no."
Sure, there's a possibility for sleazy underhanded ******** dealings, but the same has happened in costume contests and other contests that have taken place. It really just boils down to who's willing to take the risk and who ain't.
If you don't gamble, don't go to the casino. It's that simple.
"People who take offense to IC actions OOCly need to learn to differentiate between the two... Or change their damn meds."
Well, the issue arises when various gambling laws for various countries are brought into the mix as this game caters to a multinational audience. Now, I'm nto a lawyer and I can't read law-speak. I tried. I looked at some internet gambling laws and I could not understand high nor hair of it. I don't even know if it would apply but as it possibly could, you possibly could get in serious trouble. Now, like I've said, these are all ifs ands and buts. I *don't* know if you'd get in trouble or not
but
It could be a huge issue and until I got an ok from somebody that runs stuff for the game, I wouldn't actually do anything with it. Ask a Community rep? I'm sure they could at least find out if there would be an issue.
Why don't you just find a Redname or a Dev and find out for sure.
See, what we seem to be splitting hairs over is the "legality" of gambling under real world circumstances. I could see there being an issue if we were actually using real world currency with a tangible value, but we're not. This isn't REAL money. It only has value in the game. Feel me?
"People who take offense to IC actions OOCly need to learn to differentiate between the two... Or change their damn meds."
Quote:
If I enter a costume contest and I don't win, I don't lose anything. Even if, as some people claim, the judges are in league with a few of the contestants, no one loses anything except the 5-30 minutes of playing time they wasted standing around under the Atlas statue or wherever. That's why you don't see costume contests with entry fees.|
Originally Posted by The_Spartan
And that's all valid. I guess. But, does it break any rules to do this?
I'm thinking "no." Sure, there's a possibility for sleazy underhanded ******** dealings, but the same has happened in costume contests and other contests that have taken place. It really just boils down to who's willing to take the risk and who ain't. If you don't gamble, don't go to the casino. It's that simple. |
If I bet on a PvP match and the person I bet on loses, I lose whatever I bet. And since this isn't like the NFL or NCAA where there are rules against cheating, and severe, real world penalties for throwing a game, I have no idea whether I lost my money fairly, or the match was thrown because the contestants were in league with some of the bettors. That is the biggest issue and I guarantee it would lead to nothing but problems. Bad, bad idea IMO.
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
Quote:
It can be argued that our monthly subscription fee is what we are using to fund the betting. All it would take is for one prosecutor to make this claim and the credit card companies would start blocking any charge made by NCSoft till the case is resolved.
|
Originally Posted by The_Spartan
See, what we seem to be splitting hairs over is the "legality" of gambling under real world circumstances. I could see there being an issue if we were actually using real world currency with a tangible value, but we're not. This isn't REAL money. It only has value in the game. Feel me?
|
�Let there be truth, happiness, and waffles�
-Vagabond, Dark Lord & Avatar of Gnarr
The Justiciars
I know for a fact we have run gambling events at various in game partys for inf , My oponion is you'd be fine with this up until someone whom lost money raised a big stink about the event being rigged .
Good luck with the idea It sounds fun
Quote:
This case would be LAUGHED out of court and that lawyer would never work again. AGAIN, we are NOT dealing with currency that has any REAL WORLD VALUE.
|
Originally Posted by DocArcus
It can be argued that our monthly subscription fee is what we are using to fund the betting. All it would take is for one prosecutor to make this claim and the credit card companies would start blocking any charge made by NCSoft till the case is resolved.
|
"People who take offense to IC actions OOCly need to learn to differentiate between the two... Or change their damn meds."
Just something interesting I found on the matter of gambling in MMOs, since it's come up. In an article by Mark Methenitis, from the Texas Tech University School of Law (found at: http://webpages.acs.ttu.edu/mmetheni...#_Toc121217203)
Quote:
Link to the article about the bans for in-game gambling, courtesy of IGN: http://pc.ign.com/articles/588/588964p1.html|
1. Un-integrated Gambling Un-integrated gambling is the far more common method available at the present time, however it may not be in the future. Un-integrated gambling means that the developer has not specifically made gambling part of the game, but players have figured out a way to use what is available in the game to gamble regardless. While some games simply assume that they have skirted any connection to gambling by not explicitly providing for it, other games have gone as far as to actively ban and police un-integrated gambling.(53) However, even after these virtual casinos are shut down, newer, more inventive adaptations of gambling to the MMORPG inevitably follow, such as the recent BINGO outbreak in World of Warcraft.(54) Un-integrated gaming is very limited. Players are constrained to cobble together what the game allows. Moreover, they are required to trust in other players to pay out the prizes or results of bets made. Much like real world illegal gambling, a player who does not receive payout has no recourse within the game as it is a prohibited activity. However, much like real world illegal gambling, it seems that un-integrated gambling will occur whether or not it is permitted by the game. |
For what it's worth, I think the idea of betting on arena matches is awesome. I don't personally see anything wrong with it, but it's obvious that some publishes and companies are worried about the Internet Gambling Laws being brought into MMOs. Then again, I remember a case where Sony banned a player after they posted some Fan-Fic with a rather dark subject matter, even though it wasn't on an official website. So some companies are -especially- skittish about laws and potential backlash. *shrugs*
/threadjack
We now return you to your regularly scheduled conversation.
Quote:
But we ARE dealing with SOMETHING that has LAWS against IT, and NCSOFT have to UPHOLD them, whether or NOT people LIKE it.
|
Originally Posted by The_Spartan
This case would be LAUGHED out of court and that lawyer would never work again. AGAIN, we are NOT dealing with currency that has any REAL WORLD VALUE.
|
Quote:
How's so? |
Originally Posted by poptart_fairy
But we ARE dealing with SOMETHING that has LAWS against IT, and NCSOFT have to UPHOLD them, whether or NOT people LIKE it.
|
Gambling is accepting, recording, or registering bets, or carrying on a policy game or any other lottery, or playing any game of chance, for money or other thing of value. Title 18, U.S.C., Sec. 1955
Money or other thing of VALUE.
Influence and infamy has no value outside of this game. You might as well be playing with monopoly money. So, where is your basis for illegal activity? That's what I'm clubbing this topic over the head with. Ya'll are seriously jumpin' the shark here.
"People who take offense to IC actions OOCly need to learn to differentiate between the two... Or change their damn meds."
Easily dismissed by the rampant selling of influence. If even Blizzard won't tread on this landmine, there's a good reason for it.
Also, I don't think you know what 'jumping the shark' actually means.
You can play Bingo in WoW? I'll bet that's why my Aunt Ruth has started playing!
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
Nope. Blizzard will even shut down player run gambling rings, as they risk creating a mess for the company. Really, 'companies just do it' is a horribly naive stance to take - one that really doesn't seem to grasp just how fickle and broad the law can be in these circumstances. I mean there's not even age checks on these things, which in itself can open a **** storm if brought up in court.
Could it work? I was going to try and start this up, gathering a group of pvp fighters, allowing bets depending on the number of spectators. I don't think it wou?d be that difficult, really.