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And let's not forget SD gets True Grit, while it may not be as big of a buff as Dull Pain, it's auto and permanent, and doesn't interrupt your attack chain.
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Originally Posted by Ribic
Let's not forget the sweet sweet lovin that is Dull Pain. the only thing SD really lacks.
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Originally Posted by Ribic
Let's not forget the sweet sweet lovin that is Dull Pain. the only thing SD really lacks. And yes, DDR is only 50% on Invuln and it has no damage buff and no Shield Charge, but it can take RNG hate MUCH better.
I can't help but think SD is due for some bat smacking, but then I'm reminded the devs JUST made the set, and even more recently INCREASED the damage from Shield Charge by quite a bit (to bring it in line with Lightning Rod). I'm hoping beyond hope they did the math ahead of time. As for the insane builds, I have to agree that a large number of the insane builds we see posted never get built. I know of only 1 person (granted, I don't know many people, but still) who actually put together a soft capped, perma hasten Elec/SD scrapper. It is VERY impressive under the right circumstances. But the one thing Shields has in its favor (depending on your perspective - mine is the 'please don't nerf me' perspective) is the fact that when the RNG decides it's time for him to die, he dies. End of story. And just to reiterate: if you think SD is overpowered, run your farms (or AV missions) on SOs using the same setting as you would on your super IO-ed build. Then come back and tell me how super amazing it is. On SOs alone my BS/SR will see some performance decrease, but not to the extent my DM/SD would. |
Why do people who like competing sets feel compelled to call for nerfs to sets that challenge the set they like, lol? (based on "I can't help but think SD is due for some bat smacking")
Looking at 3 bil tricked out SD builds and calling for nerfs is insane, imo. It's true that at the top end, SD is the best secondary because you can fill it's defensive gaps with IO bonuses and it comes with the glorious offensive treat that is shield charge. But that is balanced by the fact that leveling up and with less than billionaire funds, SD underperforms defensively to competing sets (as it should, which is why it gets the offensive boost, shield charge, which still doesnt come until the end of the set), even you point that out in your last paragraph.
You're paying for end game power (at further considerable cost via IO investment) with leveling up comparative weakness. Then consider the fact most of the game is spent leveling up characters, and relatively few players engage in the 'power gamer' contests we see in this forum. For the average player, I wouldn't even suggest SD as one of the top secondaries to use, assuming average gameplay, because it doesn't get very good without expensive IO investment and doesn't come into it's own until late game.
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But lets not forget DP is activated when you want it to be, where as Active Defense needs to be (at the very least SHOULD be) set to auto fire, so it will interrupt your attack chain far more often than DP (unless you're doing something very wrong, or very right)
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Originally Posted by Silverado
And let's not forget SD gets True Grit, while it may not be as big of a buff as Dull Pain, it's auto and permanent, and doesn't interrupt your attack chain.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Why do people who like competing sets feel compelled to call for nerfs to sets that challenge the set they like, lol? (based on "I can't help but think SD is due for some bat smacking")
Looking at 3 bil tricked out SD builds and calling for nerfs is insane, imo. It's true that at the top end, SD is the best secondary because you can fill it's defensive gaps with IO bonuses and it comes with the glorious offensive treat that is shield charge. But that is balanced by the fact that leveling up and with less than billionaire funds, SD underperforms defensively to competing sets (as it should, which is why it gets the offensive boost, shield charge, which still doesnt come until the end of the set), even you point that out in your last paragraph. You're paying for end game power (at further considerable cost via IO investment) with leveling up comparative weakness. Then consider the fact most of the game is spent leveling up characters, and relatively few players engage in the 'power gamer' contests we see in this forum. For the average player, I wouldn't even suggest SD as one of the top secondaries to use, assuming average gameplay, because it doesn't get very good without expensive IO investment and doesn't come into it's own until late game. |
Who's calling for nerfs? I have a tricked out DM/SD pylon/AV soloing scrapper (that I LOVE) and an SD/Ice tank (with two IO'd builds, one for tanking, one for farming). That's just as many SD toons as I have Invuln toons. I was simply adding onto a comparison begun by someone else. I most assuredly don't want to see a nerf. And as a point of fact I believe I stated that it wouldn't make sense since it is A) the newest Melee defense set and B) recently received a BUFF to SC, the power that is mistakenly pointed to as the reason for the set being OP.
In retrospect the beginning of that thought was a bit harsh, lets change that paragraph to something more like "I wouldn't be surprised if some 'balancing' were performed on the set. Maybe drop the buff from AAO slightly and marginally increase the def from BA and Deflection'. Or something along those lines.
I have my siphon life frankenslotted with two nucleous exposures, a crushing impact dam/end/rech, touch of nictus heal/rech, touch of nictus acc/heal and a golgi exposure. Pretty much maximizes everything I need from siphon life.
Edit: Also...RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson
"With great moustache comes great responsibility" - Zee Captain
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That too
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Originally Posted by FunstuffofDoom
No, you've got a farkload of people on the forums with the time to come up with theoretical builds that push the limits. Only a very small percentage of the gaming population has the time and resources to actually build such a character.
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Not true there are two things that hurt shields and one hurts /sr as well non positional attacks that bypass our defense and they tend to be PSI. Yea those are painful|
Originally Posted by Psiphon
Invuln though has a psi hole that is pretty much impossible to close.
Shields has no holes to damage types, great damage buff, high damage attack equivalent to ElM tier 9 and with the HO bug the ability to cap DDR. I'd say SD wins all round  |
The other is DDR on shield other than perma double stacked which i do not have because of what i have to sacrifice to get it in my build place like Cinmeora can be down right painful.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Quote:
A nerf is a nerf by any other name, even if you call it 'balancing', lol.|
Originally Posted by Ribic
Who's calling for nerfs? I have a tricked out DM/SD pylon/AV soloing scrapper (that I LOVE) and an SD/Ice tank (with two IO'd builds, one for tanking, one for farming). That's just as many SD toons as I have Invuln toons. I was simply adding onto a comparison begun by someone else. I most assuredly don't want to see a nerf. And as a point of fact I believe I stated that it wouldn't make sense since it is A) the newest Melee defense set and B) recently received a BUFF to SC, the power that is mistakenly pointed to as the reason for the set being OP.
In retrospect the beginning of that thought was a bit harsh, lets change that paragraph to something more like "I wouldn't be surprised if some 'balancing' were performed on the set. Maybe drop the buff from AAO slightly and marginally increase the def from BA and Deflection'. Or something along those lines. |
And you seem to contradict yourself. In the first paragraph you plainly state that you 'assuredly don't want to see a nerf' and that it 'wouldn't make sense'. Then in the next paragraph you wouldn't be suprised to see the set 'balanced', then even suggest how it should be done. I guess you could argue that the balancing is part nerf, part buff, but the overall effect would clearly nerf top end performance.
Good luck 'balancing' all of the sets for every single situation. If you want to 'balance' sd for top end performance, then every other set will need to be 'balanced' for every other situation. See the problem? Again, it's ok for SD to be the best top end performer, because it is clearly outperformed in many other instances. As I explained earlier, SD is already balanced in that it underperforms for most of its lifespan until it hits top end performance late game and with hefty IO investment.
My suggestion for the devs would be to leave sets your customers clearly enjoy alone, and buff the sets nobody likes or plays. The result will be more happy customers, more money for the game, and a better, more robust game. Look at what the buff to dark melee did for that set. Also, perhaps they could start coming out with more IO's to benefit non-defensive builds more, or improve the ones already out there.
Furthermore, there's no reason to nerf for lack of difficulty now with the new difficulty rules. If you can't challenge yourself with the new difficulty slider and/or AE, you're doing it wrong.
That quote about, barely anyone actually slotting up what there mids build says is very true.
/SD with alotta cash and at 50 pwns, this is fact, but scrapper wise my /SD at anything below 45, sucks hard. Also /SD fails in pvp lol Nerfing /SD would make it even worse.
If you have a decent build and alotta cash, /SD pwns, but if your under any other condition, SD under performs everything.
@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union
Quote:
Do me a favor and look up the word "contradict". Saying I don't want something to happen, but understanding it is a possibility, is not the definition. Not even like a little bit.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
A nerf is a nerf by any other name, even if you call it 'balancing', lol.
And you seem to contradict yourself. In the first paragraph you plainly state that you 'assuredly don't want to see a nerf' and that it 'wouldn't make sense'. Then in the next paragraph you wouldn't be suprised to see the set 'balanced', then even suggest how it should be done. |
I don't want X to happen, but I feel that over time, with certain factors being met, it could. How is my 'spit-balling' possible scenarios synonymous with calling for X to happen? Dude, use your logic.
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| I guess you could argue that the balancing is part nerf, part buff, but the overall effect would clearly nerf top end performance. |
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| Good luck 'balancing' all of the sets for every single situation. |
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| If you want to 'balance' sd for top end performance, then every other set will need to be 'balanced' for every other situation. See the problem? |
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| Again, it's ok for SD to be the best top end performer, because it is clearly outperformed in many other instances. As I explained earlier, SD is already balanced in that it underperforms for most of its lifespan until it hits top end performance late game and with hefty IO investment. |
I don't believe it would make sense to lower the top end performance of SD, for the reasons already mentioned by everyone, myself included. The fact that you and I don't feel it would make sense or be a good idea means exactly what to the developers again?
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My suggestion for the devs would be to leave sets your customers clearly enjoy alone, and buff the sets nobody likes or plays. The result will be more happy customers, more money for the game, and a better, more robust game. Look at what the buff to dark melee did for that set. Also, perhaps they could start coming out with more IO's to benefit non-defensive builds more, or improve the ones already out there. Furthermore, there's no reason to nerf for lack of difficulty now with the new difficulty rules. If you can't challenge yourself with the new difficulty slider and/or AE, you're doing it wrong. |
Sure there are enemies that can kill a pimped out */SD scrapper, everything has its kryptonite after all, but the majority of enemies, on the absolute hardest settings? Yes, he MUST be doing it wrong.
In summary: Me no want change SD. Me think change SD bad. But me understand change could happen, and even see logic behind change, even though me disagree.
My, my ... what have I done? 
Now I regret writing that line that seems to hint that SD deserves a nerf.
Actually rereading my earlier post I realize it was a bit too harsh overall. I wrote it after reading seemingly dozens of short posts requesting the best build for the best this or the best that. Money is never an issue. But no one ever explains what they think means best for them. The best combo for soloing an AV? Well, I'd say it depends. Do you want the fastest kill? Maybe you value survivabilty over DPS? Do you want a fire and forget secondary? Or do you prefer micro-management to get the best out of your build? Do you like the fast attack animation in Claws? Or maybe you prefer the elegant movements in Dual Blades? Or maybe the special tricks in Dark Melee are your thing? What is your fun factor?
I believe that playing something just because it's FOTM robs you of a chance to discover something for yourself that you might love to play. Because it's fun to play and not because it outperforms the other choices (well, there are those who say that outperforming others IS the fun and sometimes the FOTM build simply is your fun build regardless of performance). It's sad (a bit). And to some degree lazy.
My apologies to the OP for my snarky comments.
And then there is */SD 
Yes, I believe it would be ok to think about tweaks to adjust the performance of SD.
Especially if it underperforms most of it's lifetime and then finally evolves into the top performer in the end game, like Cyber naut wrote. Overperformance in the end game (or any other part) can not be balanced by underperformance in another part of the game and vice versa. (On a side note: I still want my old Fire/Kin back who was obscenly overpowered at L40+ and horrendously underpowered and painful to level from L1-33. But oh boy was it worth it. I never had more fun in this game! 
). In the end, I don't care much about it as long as it's fun. Maybe SD needs a nerf, maybe it doesn't. I don't have less fun just because someone else managed to kill a Pylon faster than I did. You want the fastest Pylon time? Maybe you should roll a Controller. 
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Not neccesarily true. I've seen quite a few "cheap" shield builds posted here, I've posted a couple myself. And I managed to get real close to the defensive softcap around level 40 while also having shield charge and lightning rod fully slotted. Sure, I respecced him into a monster at 45, but really IMO everything post 35 and shield charge is easy mode.
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Originally Posted by Effy_On_Malibu
That quote about, barely anyone actually slotting up what there mids build says is very true.
/SD with alotta cash and at 50 pwns, this is fact, but scrapper wise my /SD at anything below 45, sucks hard. Also /SD fails in pvp lol Nerfing /SD would make it even worse. If you have a decent build and alotta cash, /SD pwns, but if your under any other condition, SD under performs everything. |
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You said in one paragraph from the post I quoted, nerfing SD doesn't make sense, then later said you could still see it happening, and in this post, you say you see logic behind the argument for a nerf. Dude, that's a contradiction.|
Originally Posted by Ribic
Do me a favor and look up the word "contradict". Saying I don't want something to happen, but understanding it is a possibility, is not the definition. Not even like a little bit.
I don't want X to happen, but I feel that over time, with certain factors being met, it could. How is my 'spit-balling' possible scenarios synonymous with calling for X to happen? Dude, use your logic. |
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| Nerfing something and adjusting numbers because something isnt WAI are two (that's more than one) different concepts. And before you comment, no, I have no reason to believe that the powers that be feel SD isn't WAI. But opinions change, as does staff, nothing is set in stone. Just saying. |
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| Way to take a comment based on one specific instance to its extreme. |
The devs made the same mistake with energy melee. Yes, energy melee dominated single target damage, but it paid for that with pitiful aoe dmg. But the devs listened to the cries of people who only saw where it overperformed (ironically, mostly from pvp experiences), and brought it's single target dmg down to par with several other sets that at the same time ate em's lunch in terms of aoe dmg.
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| Oh, that explains why every time a change is made to 1 set all sets are changed. Thanks, I keep forgetting how often that happens. |
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It's a good thing you explained this and no one else has, since I've never played SD and never agreed with this previously (in this thread). I don't believe it would make sense to lower the top end performance of SD, for the reasons already mentioned by everyone, myself included. The fact that you and I don't feel it would make sense or be a good idea means exactly what to the developers again? |
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So the fact that the Elec/SD owned by my friend (an avid board luker/occasional poster) can farm a large % of the enemies in the game at +4/x8 means he's doing it wrong? Sure there are enemies that can kill a pimped out */SD scrapper, everything has its kryptonite after all, but the majority of enemies, on the absolute hardest settings? Yes, he MUST be doing it wrong. |
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| In summary: Me no want change SD. Me think change SD bad. But me understand change could happen, and even see logic behind change, even though me disagree. |
(But again, either there is logic behind the change, or it doesn't make sense, pick one or you're contradicting yourself.)
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Why not? That creates diversity and flavor. And that's how this game operates on many levels. Strong aoe builds usually are balanced by having poor single target abilities and visa versa. Strong team at's are usually balanced by being weak solo, and visa versa. Some powersets start off weak but reward you at the end with above average power. Trying to make everything 'balanced' by making them the same or on par in every circumstance and at every point in the game, would ruin this game, imo. This game is built around variability and difference.|
Originally Posted by Myriad
Overperformance in the end game (or any other part) can not be balanced by underperformance in another part of the game and vice versa.
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(On a side note: I still want my old Fire/Kin back who was obscenly overpowered at L40+ and horrendously underpowered and painful to level from L1-33. But oh boy was it worth it. I never had more fun in this game! ).
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The alternative is to have all the sets level the same, do basically the same stuff so they can be on par with eachother in all or most situations, with all the same levels of payoff at the end. Sounds boring to me.
Lets try a simple gedanken experiment and say we have a powerset A that overperforms in the early levels but underperforms in the end game. Would you like to play it? I guess it's safe to say that most people wouldn't. And it's obvious why. As your character progresses he will leave the level range with above average power behind. Sooner or later you will end up with a character that underperforms, probably resulting in less fun and maybe even some frustration. Not good.
Now imagine we have two powersets B and C. C underperforms in the early levels but is overpowered in the end game when compared to B. Suddenly B is in the same situation as A was in the first example. Because B<C is fully equivalent to C>B. Again, not good.
(Disclaimer: I'm NOT saying that Shield Defense is like powerset C. I used the example solely to try to explain my point concerning a certain theoretical balancing issue.)
You can't balance end game power on basis of performance (in a specific level range), xp or currency, because these are factors players will overcome more or less easily. All you accomplish this way is making it harder / slower to get there and give reasons for farming and RMT.
My Fire/Kin example was not meant to be sarcastic. I included it to show that although I see, understand and accept the reasons why you can't balance overperformance in the end game with underperformance in the lower levels, that doesn't mean I always like it.
Quote:
Might want to take some insight into this thread:|
Originally Posted by Santorican
People say without inventions shields isn't that great but why is it that if you pour an equal amount of influence into say a fire/shield and a fire/sr the shield will always be better?
BTW shields won't be nerfed by the fact that using SOs it is a good set, and is not in anyway over powered. |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=193025
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
Quote:
Um, Psi...|
Originally Posted by Psiphon
Invuln though has a psi hole that is pretty much impossible to close.
Shields has no holes to damage types, great damage buff, high damage attack equivalent to ElM tier 9 and with the HO bug the ability to cap DDR. I'd say SD wins all round |
You're also forgetting, just because a bug allows you to cap DDR, doens't mean its supposed to, thats a fix to the HO bug, not shields. You're also forgetting, you look at sets with SOs, as that's what they balance around. Non-IOd shields is PAINFUL on a scrapper.
There are so many defense buffs, cause they're there to make sets very poor on surviving like shields and SR worth playing. Hence why positional defense buffs are much more than typed defense buffs.
The resistance bonuses however are far lacking for some time now.
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
Quote:
I recognize that Shield Defense isn't the most solid of secondaries while leveling on just SOs. But I just can't describe it as "painful".|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Non-IOd shields is PAINFUL on a scrapper.
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My Broad Sword/Shield Defense was the most fun I've had from 1-50. Very solid. Yes, I know half of that is because of Parry. We don't have to count that experience if you think the sword primaries shouldn't count.
But I'm leveling a Fire/Shield, now 31, which should be as squishy as Shields get. I put in a Kismet unique at 12, and I put in a Steadfast Protection unique at 28, but other than that, I haven't gone to IOs. It's not bad. Actually, it's pretty good. I think I've died three or four times total. I play tank for a Blaster/Scrapper level-pacted duo, with occasional guest appearances by a friend's Offender. One small purple has me almost to the soft cap. I ground from 30 to 31 solo with half of my time spent taking on the Red Cap bosses in that one section of Croatoa that's overflowing with them. Granted, Red Caps take 25% (?) extra damage from fire, but that's me on my squishy little Shield Defense, surrounded by four even level bosses, going to town. I was burning inspirations to stay and farm the entire area in one burst of activity, mostly purples and blues. I'd burn out around the time all the bosses were dead, go kill some minions and lieutenants to replenish the inspiration supply, and head back in. I did some boss-killing there while they were purple too, just not four at once.
I feel solid, and I'm having fun. I'm not seeing this "sucks while leveling on SOs" thing except on paper. Seat of the pants, I'm not having a problem. I don't feel like I'm paying my dues to get to the IO'd out end game. I'm just having fun playing the game with a rather good character.
So from my perspective, the fragility of an SO'd Shield Defense is overstated. On the other hand, I'd also say that the end game dominance of Shield Defense is similarly overstated. It isn't like Shield Defense is the only secondary played by the min/max crowd. We play a wide variety of things, and all have their benefits.
It won't surprise me if the DDR thing is considered a bug and eventually gets changed. It also won't surprise me if it never changes. I'll continue playing both Shield Defense and other secondaries either way.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Lets just cut to the core of our arguement...
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
(But again, either there is logic behind the change, or it doesn't make sense, pick one or you're contradicting yourself.)
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http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/searc...ic&FORM=DTPDIA
the second definition of the word:
"system or instance of reasoning: any system of, or an instance of, reasoning and inference"
Just because I disagree with the thought process that would lead one to decide to nerf the set, does not mean I'm incapable of comprehending said thought process.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Aw, no need to get upset, lol.
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, just tyring to phrase my arguement in a manner that everyone could understand, since my last attempt was so poorly received.
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What is funny is my db/elec is been more fun in the 25-30 games and a little more robust than my elec/sd even once I got LR on my sd. I think that has a lot to do with BF + sweeping strike pawn it is more consistent performance aoe damage.|
Originally Posted by Werner
I recognize that Shield Defense isn't the most solid of secondaries while leveling on just SOs. But I just can't describe it as "painful".
My Broad Sword/Shield Defense was the most fun I've had from 1-50. Very solid. Yes, I know half of that is because of Parry. We don't have to count that experience if you think the sword primaries shouldn't count. But I'm leveling a Fire/Shield, now 31, which should be as squishy as Shields get. I put in a Kismet unique at 12, and I put in a Steadfast Protection unique at 28, but other than that, I haven't gone to IOs. It's not bad. Actually, it's pretty good. I think I've died three or four times total. I play tank for a Blaster/Scrapper level-pacted duo, with occasional guest appearances by a friend's Offender. One small purple has me almost to the soft cap. I ground from 30 to 31 solo with half of my time spent taking on the Red Cap bosses in that one section of Croatoa that's overflowing with them. Granted, Red Caps take 25% (?) extra damage from fire, but that's me on my squishy little Shield Defense, surrounded by four even level bosses, going to town. I was burning inspirations to stay and farm the entire area in one burst of activity, mostly purples and blues. I'd burn out around the time all the bosses were dead, go kill some minions and lieutenants to replenish the inspiration supply, and head back in. I did some boss-killing there while they were purple too, just not four at once. I feel solid, and I'm having fun. I'm not seeing this "sucks while leveling on SOs" thing except on paper. Seat of the pants, I'm not having a problem. I don't feel like I'm paying my dues to get to the IO'd out end game. I'm just having fun playing the game with a rather good character. So from my perspective, the fragility of an SO'd Shield Defense is overstated. On the other hand, I'd also say that the end game dominance of Shield Defense is similarly overstated. It isn't like Shield Defense is the only secondary played by the min/max crowd. We play a wide variety of things, and all have their benefits. It won't surprise me if the DDR thing is considered a bug and eventually gets changed. It also won't surprise me if it never changes. I'll continue playing both Shield Defense and other secondaries either way. |
I have to say any sword set/? and if they use parry makes life easy my katana/wp I got to 25 and a katana/reg I got to 27 where the easiest ride to those levels due to parry. I may yet finish of that katana/wp one day
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Quote:
Actually Positron stated that the HO bug is now a special effect of HOs and will not be changed.
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Um, Psi...
You're also forgetting, just because a bug allows you to cap DDR, doens't mean its supposed to, thats a fix to the HO bug, not shields. You're also forgetting, you look at sets with SOs, as that's what they balance around. Non-IOd shields is PAINFUL on a scrapper. There are so many defense buffs, cause they're there to make sets very poor on surviving like shields and SR worth playing. Hence why positional defense buffs are much more than typed defense buffs. The resistance bonuses however are far lacking for some time now. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Nerf Positron! |
Originally Posted by Santorican
Actually Positron stated that the HO bug is now a special effect of HOs and will not be changed.
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OK, that makes me feel better. I'm allergic to change. That and I think the Hamio bugs are about the only thing that make Hamios worth slotting at all, and I'd hate for Hamios to go the way of the dinosaurs.
Mind you, I don't think the DDR thing is a Hamio problem IF it's a problem. I suspect it's that the devs figured that by not allowing defense IOs in Active Defense, you then couldn't slot it for defense, so someone forgot to flag the DDR as unenhanceable. Someone forgot about Hamios. That's my theory. I don't think anyone is going to change Hamios here. My fear is that they'll "fix" the flag on the DDR in Active Defense. But like I said, I'll play the set either way, and I'll play other sets either way. I just dislike, say, spending a billion influence slotting three level 53 Membranes, only to have them become less useful than mere recharge IOs. Oops!
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
I got mine for a deal then i payed like 80 million for 3
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Originally Posted by Werner
Nerf Positron!
OK, that makes me feel better. I'm allergic to change. That and I think the Hamio bugs are about the only thing that make Hamios worth slotting at all, and I'd hate for Hamios to go the way of the dinosaurs. Mind you, I don't think the DDR thing is a Hamio problem IF it's a problem. I suspect it's that the devs figured that by not allowing defense IOs in Active Defense, you then couldn't slot it for defense, so someone forgot to flag the DDR as unenhanceable. Someone forgot about Hamios. That's my theory. I don't think anyone is going to change Hamios here. My fear is that they'll "fix" the flag on the DDR in Active Defense. But like I said, I'll play the set either way, and I'll play other sets either way. I just dislike, say, spending a billion influence slotting three level 53 Membranes, only to have them become less useful than mere recharge IOs. Oops! |
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Quote:
I'd agree with your argument if there was a wide performance gap at any level overall, but there isn't.|
Originally Posted by Myriad
Lets try a simple gedanken experiment and say we have a powerset A that overperforms in the early levels but underperforms in the end game. Would you like to play it? I guess it's safe to say that most people wouldn't. And it's obvious why. As your character progresses he will leave the level range with above average power behind. Sooner or later you will end up with a character that underperforms, probably resulting in less fun and maybe even some frustration. Not good.
Now imagine we have two powersets B and C. C underperforms in the early levels but is overpowered in the end game when compared to B. Suddenly B is in the same situation as A was in the first example. Because B<C is fully equivalent to C>B. Again, not good. (Disclaimer: I'm NOT saying that Shield Defense is like powerset C. I used the example solely to try to explain my point concerning a certain theoretical balancing issue.) You can't balance end game power on basis of performance (in a specific level range), xp or currency, because these are factors players will overcome more or less easily. All you accomplish this way is making it harder / slower to get there and give reasons for farming and RMT. My Fire/Kin example was not meant to be sarcastic. I included it to show that although I see, understand and accept the reasons why you can't balance overperformance in the end game with underperformance in the lower levels, that doesn't mean I always like it. |
I think werner nailed it with his post, the over and under performance claims are mostly overstated. We've seen all the top end stuff being done on the other primaries too, and in many situations, you are better off with another secondary. I think most of the secondaries are pretty competitive with eachother. When I play, I don't see 99% of the scrappers running around with a shield, I see a pretty even mix of secondaries. The reason you see so many people drooling over shields here is because we're the min/max crowd looking for any slight advantage, and clearly shields has advantages in terms of end game and with massive IO investment.
So again, there is absolutely no need for nerfs. I would agree that a couple of sets could use some buffs to get them into the performance range of the majority of secondaries, but that is another argument. And as I've said, I'd love to a few buffs to IO's that benefit resists or heals (or just new io's), because it's far easier to buff defense than it is resists late game, which is unfair to sets that rely primarily on resists and heals. But overall, there is no huge performance gap, imo.
Dark/Shield tends to be more survivable because of Siphon Life, but I'd rather tough it out and pop greens as necesary playing a set I enjoy more. It's also nice to not kill your AAO fodder with your damage buffs
This. I prefer fire overall because dm's damage output is very reliant on soul drain, and fire puts out better aoe dmg with FSC. But in terms of av soloing, dm is definitely superior to fire thanks to siphon life. That self heal is a huge survivability bonus. But fm/sd and dm/sd are top notch combos either way.