Quote:
real men use chillblain
|
Originally Posted by Rroht
...
... ...Why does there need to be an all or nothing "-fly" component in powers such as air superiority and web grenade? It seems weird that you can attempt to resist holds, immobilization, and so on, but a "-fly" webnade will bring you down no matter what. Why not remove the "-fly" component and let the mez effects cover it all? Hover has been upgraded in the last few issues to protect fliers against mez effects, but it should never be all or nothing. I'd like to see more aerial battles; too often, it comes down the guy, with his raptor pack, throwing a web grenade. The damage from the fall basically does it from there. |
SHARK JAWS! -Fly +Pwn = PvP IOs for MEH!
Quote:
Couple things|
Originally Posted by Rroht
...
... ...Why does there need to be an all or nothing "-fly" component in powers such as air superiority and web grenade? It seems weird that you can attempt to resist holds, immobilization, and so on, but a "-fly" webnade will bring you down no matter what. Why not remove the "-fly" component and let the mez effects cover it all? Hover has been upgraded in the last few issues to protect fliers against mez effects, but it should never be all or nothing. I'd like to see more aerial battles; too often, it comes down the guy, with his raptor pack, throwing a web grenade. The damage from the fall basically does it from there. |
First, if you don't have a way to ground people yourself, you should probably not be flying. Aerial PvP is a form of mitigation. If you're letting people get close enough to web you... you're not flying fast enough or paying enough attention to the wide open skies around you.
Second, if you're gonna PvP on a flying toon, take hover to counter anything except web grenades and net arrows... and consider taking teleport to complement it so that when you are webnaded you can teleport away before ever hitting the ground (note: you'll have to keep TP'ing until you find a good spot to fall or the -fly effect wears off.)
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dahjee
Couple things
First, if you don't have a way to ground people yourself, you should probably not be flying. Aerial PvP is a form of mitigation. If you're letting people get close enough to web you... you're not flying fast enough or paying enough attention to the wide open skies around you. Second, if you're gonna PvP on a flying toon, take hover to counter anything except web grenades and net arrows... and consider taking teleport to complement it so that when you are webnaded you can teleport away before ever hitting the ground (note: you'll have to keep TP'ing until you find a good spot to fall or the -fly effect wears off.) |
Thank you for your comments:
First of all, I would prefer aerial combat to stay in the air (that is, until there is a defeat). Too often, the fall becomes the DEFEAT (leaving you with few hitpoints). In other words, I'd prefer to stick to the sky and not have to ground my opponent.
Second, I don't think your comment is fair, because I've tested the maximum fly cap in zones. It's not very difficult to reach, and therefore, it's not hard for people to get close to you in fly.
And third, I agree about Hover. I've been willing to take it. I don't mind the allocation of another fly-type power to complement my flying.
The point of my conversation is to directly suggest that powers such as webnade and air superiority, which have a "-fly" component, ALL or NOTHING, seem to be over the top. You see, if I got hit by a webnade, I could see it slowing me down and causing me problems, but I don't like that one hit is a basic end to the fight.
Right now, a Tier 1 "-fly" power negates the whole concept of aerial combat.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure Hover protects from Shark Jaws. Am I wrong?|
Originally Posted by K l e s k
SHARK JAWS! -Fly +Pwn = PvP IOs for MEH!
|
I don't really have a problem with Shark Jaws anyhow, it's high level power.
Quote:
I really disagree. There are a handful of powers that are your hard-counter to your flight. you shouldn't have a get out-of-jail-free card just because you chose fly. If I ONLY chose superjump, I can't jump either with webnades/entangling arrow on. |
Originally Posted by Rroht
Thank you for your comments:
First of all, I would prefer aerial combat to stay in the air (that is, until there is a defeat). Too often, the fall becomes the DEFEAT (leaving you with few hitpoints). In other words, I'd prefer to stick to the sky and not have to ground my opponent. Second, I don't think your comment is fair, because I've tested the maximum fly cap in zones. It's not very difficult to reach, and therefore, it's not hard for people to get close to you in fly. And third, I agree about Hover. I've been willing to take it. I don't mind the allocation of another fly-type power to complement my flying. The point of my conversation is to directly suggest that powers such as webnade and air superiority, which have a "-fly" component, ALL or NOTHING, seem to be over the top. You see, if I got hit by a webnade, I could see it slowing me down and causing me problems, but I don't like that one hit is a basic end to the fight. Right now, a Tier 1 "-fly" power negates the whole concept of aerial combat. |
you have a couple choices. You can pick another travel power to complement your choice of flight (TP was suggested, I would say superspeed would be the better alternative, because hasten fits very nicely into most Builds - where TPfoe/friend doesn't so much). Or, you can only engage fights that you think are appropriate to by staying high and coming down on your own terms.
But no, -fly, just like -jump, need to stay in game. Now, if we can just fix slows to actually slow people, debuffing might actually become popular again.
The only power(s) that will instantly drop you out of Hover are webnades and their kin. Almost everything else will need to be stacked 2-3 times (i.e. Snowstorm, Spirit Shark Jaws). Don't want to get grounded right away? Use Hover instead of Fly. Sure, it's slower, but that's the price you pay for taking a really bad travel power.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Quote:
99% of the PvP community agrees with this. Unfortunately, the devs don't care. They decided that the entire "crowd control" system should be all or nothing.|
Originally Posted by Rroht
but it should never be all or nothing.
|
At least it's consistent. Just how Fly can be completely stopped by using one of 50 different powers, an actual player can be stopped by using one of 100 different powers (any mez).....and there is absolutely nothing he can do about it, regardless of how good he is at the game. It's the epitome of "all or nothing".
Quote:
Your words make a lot of sense, but I'm slightly miffed that there's no way to fight against the -fly. Does -fly get reduced if you have mez protections? To my knowledge, no. And to compare flying with jump is understandable, yet I have to point out the damage, because it makes the distinction. In flight, the damage can be tremendous. With any form of jump, there is almost no damage.|
Originally Posted by EmpireForgotten
I really disagree. There are a handful of powers that are your hard-counter to your flight. you shouldn't have a get out-of-jail-free card just because you chose fly. If I ONLY chose superjump, I can't jump either with webnades/entangling arrow on.
you have a couple choices. You can pick another travel power to complement your choice of flight (TP was suggested, I would say superspeed would be the better alternative, because hasten fits very nicely into most Builds - where TPfoe/friend doesn't so much). Or, you can only engage fights that you think are appropriate to by staying high and coming down on your own terms. But no, -fly, just like -jump, need to stay in game. Now, if we can just fix slows to actually slow people, debuffing might actually become popular again. |
So, in summary, the tier 1 web grenade and entangling arrow, are capable of indirectly causing extreme damage. At level 6, you can add air superiority. And at the same time, I do not believe there are any IO procs or effects that can reduce the amount of time effected.
Quote:
Heya,|
Originally Posted by macskull
The only power(s) that will instantly drop you out of Hover are webnades and their kin. Almost everything else will need to be stacked 2-3 times (i.e. Snowstorm, Spirit Shark Jaws). Don't want to get grounded right away? Use Hover instead of Fly. Sure, it's slower, but that's the price you pay for taking a really bad travel power.
|
I don't really have a problem working with Hover, the thing I hate about web grenades is that the -fly lasts for 15 seconds.
Here's my last grip and then I'm done.
Break Free does not remove the effect of -fly (or even -jump), but it will counteract the other mez effects.
I'd be glad to partake in a system where I can reduce the -fly effect by some means.
Quote:
Nothing can stop -fly, this is true. Maybe there should be something a teammate buff could provide - for example, IR can counter -jump. |
Originally Posted by Rroht
Your words make a lot of sense, but I'm slightly miffed that there's no way to fight against the -fly. Does -fly get reduced if you have mez protections? To my knowledge, no. And to compare flying with jump is understandable, yet I have to point out the damage, because it makes the distinction. In flight, the damage can be tremendous. With any form of jump, there is almost no damage.
So, in summary, the tier 1 web grenade and entangling arrow, are capable of indirectly causing extreme damage. At level 6, you can add air superiority. And at the same time, I do not believe there are any IO procs or effects that can reduce the amount of time effected. |
I think there shouldn't be anything you can do solo that should negate -fly. It is what it is - same for minus jump. But, perhaps a buff to IR could be an acceptable change.
Quote:
-Fly isn't a mez. It doesn't affect your status. It doesn't affect anything... unless you happen to be flying.|
Originally Posted by Rroht
Here's my last grip and then I'm done.
Break Free does not remove the effect of -fly (or even -jump), but it will counteract the other mez effects. I'd be glad to partake in a system where I can reduce the -fly effect by some means. |
You don't have to reduce the -fly effect. You HAVE to have another form of travel to counter the -fly effect. simply put.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Quote:
I know -Fly isn't a mez, but it does effect your status. It puts a "-fly" status on you. And I would prefer the ability to reduce the -fly effect over having to take a completely different travel power, simply to offset it. There's only 4 power pool choices, after all.
|
Originally Posted by Dahjee
-Fly isn't a mez. It doesn't affect your status. It doesn't affect anything... unless you happen to be flying.
You don't have to reduce the -fly effect. You HAVE to have another form of travel to counter the -fly effect. simply put. |
everytime i see a pretty flier i must web it at all costs.
I think the problem is the damage from falling is whats pissing you off the most, if i read your comments correctly.
The fix to keep everyone happy might just be negate falling damage from pvp zones
btw i also agree on taking ss if u take fly lol it comes in handy 
Quote:
This actually already happens in pvp zones. Try flying up to the ceiling in RV and dropping, then doing the same thing in Atlas. There is a noticeable difference in damage taken.
|
Originally Posted by capnkangaroo
The fix to keep everyone happy might just be negate falling damage from pvp zones.
|
Quote:
I just would prefer the mechanics to support more awesome aerial fights. Right now, everything seems to support super speed.|
Originally Posted by capnkangaroo
I think the problem is the damage from falling is whats pissing you off the most, if i read your comments correctly.
The fix to keep everyone happy might just be negate falling damage from pvp zones btw i also agree on taking ss if u take fly lol it comes in handy |
/dreaming off
/rant off
what I want is for group fly to be the only way to negate -fly
and by that i mean that someone ELSE'S group fly.
Quote:
The only problem with this I see is that if we were offered a way to reduce -fly effects... then we'd have to have a way to increase -fly mag. Both parties would likely build to max these and maximum -fly mag would likely be higher than the max -fly reduction so... we'd bascally be where we are now.|
Originally Posted by Rroht
I know -Fly isn't a mez, but it does effect your status. It puts a "-fly" status on you. And I would prefer the ability to reduce the -fly effect over having to take a completely different travel power, simply to offset it. There's only 4 power pool choices, after all.
|
It does kinda suck that at least two travels are required out of four... but taking only fly is no different than taking only SJ or only SS or only telport. It severely reduces your moblity... which in PvP is like a third powerset.
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
Quote:
You could stack Fly Mag by stacking Group Fly from 5 or 6 peeps, but the -acc debuff would stack as well. I'd be willing to bet the debuff gets DR'ed though.
|
Originally Posted by RoboBug
what I want is for group fly to be the only way to negate -fly
and by that i mean that someone ELSE'S group fly. |
"Situational power? Sure. Although in a sense... all powers are situational. It's just that some situations occur more than others." Understand the situation needed in order for the power to be most effective... and make that situation happen.
more pvpers need group fly.
Quote:
Because hearing me yell "holy **** ***** *********** turn off group fly you ******* freaking idiot!!!!" doesn't get old.
|
Originally Posted by RoboBug
more pvpers need group fly.
|
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
...
...
...Why does there need to be an all or nothing "-fly" component in powers such as air superiority and web grenade? It seems weird that you can attempt to resist holds, immobilization, and so on, but a "-fly" webnade will bring you down no matter what.
Why not remove the "-fly" component and let the mez effects cover it all? Hover has been upgraded in the last few issues to protect fliers against mez effects, but it should never be all or nothing.
I'd like to see more aerial battles; too often, it comes down the guy, with his raptor pack, throwing a web grenade. The damage from the fall basically does it from there.