Understanding Ultra Mode


Acroyear2

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperOz View Post
Zombie Man,

I appreciate the bullet points, but what I was curious about were the degrees of detail you'd get in various graphics cards, say for example a Nvidia 250GX to a 260, and a Raedon 5750 to a Raedon 5770. I think that'd help a lot of buyers sort out their budgets for this and more importantly what bang for their buck they'd be getting.


S.
Oh, in that case... we players don't know. The minimum GPU requirements that Posi gave was a bit vague-ish and tentative, and so that more specific information is unknown.


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Posted

Will Ultra mode require DirectX 11? I use Windows XP, and I have no desire or plan to upgrade to Vista or Windows 7 (Vista do-over) for now. Maybe on my next PC but not on my current one.

Will the Ultra Mode make COH no longer work on Windows XP (i.e. use DirectX 11)?

Thanks,

Lewis


Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
I have an i7 and can see through the task manager that only two threads are being used.
Zombie Man, what do you think of your i7? I'm in the market for a new MB/processor combo and I was looking at a low end i7 but was a little worried about the whole "multi-core not used" thing. Are programs smart enough to use a non-used (or less used) core or does everything try to cram through the same path? I'd be running the the i7-920 which is only 2.67GHz per core... Wasn't sure how worried I should be. (would be on a Win 7 OS)

Also, how large is your power supply?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibb_Nibb View Post
Zombie Man, what do you think of your i7? I'm in the market for a new MB/processor combo and I was looking at a low end i7 but was a little worried about the whole "multi-core not used" thing. Are programs smart enough to use a non-used (or less used) core or does everything try to cram through the same path? I'd be running the the i7-920 which is only 2.67GHz per core... Wasn't sure how worried I should be. (would be on a Win 7 OS)

Also, how large is your power supply?
Power supply is 1000 Watts. Way more than I need, but that actually increases efficiency since it's not actually using 1000 Watts if the system isn't calling for it, but operating at peak efficiency at 40-60%.

While CoH doesn't use more than 2 threads (for now), if I have other programs running in the background, and they use the extra threads so I no longer have to shut everything down just to run CoH.



---System information gathered by CoH Helper version 0.1.1.8---

DxDiag gathered at February 26, 2010 11:10 (-05:00)
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7600) (7600.win7_rtm.090713-1255)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: BIOS Date: 11/11/09 17:22:03 Ver: 08.00.15
Central Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.7GHz
Memory: 12288MB
.Net Memory Report: 10643MB out of 12279MB available
Page File: 22781MB (1774MB currently in use)
C Drive: (INTEL SSDSA2M160G2GC ATA Device) 105909MB out of 152524MB (69%) free
D Drive: (Hitachi HDS721010CLA332 ATA Device) 953742MB out of 953866MB (99%) free
E Drive: (ATAPI DVD A DH24AAS ATA Device) zero-size drive
Windows directory location: C:\Windows
DirectX: DirectX 11
DirectX Diag version: 6.01.7600.16385 (64-bit version)

Display Notes: No problems found.
Sound Notes: No problems found.

No problems found.

No problems found.
Input Notes: No problems found.

Monitor:
Monitor's Max Resolution: (blank)
Video Device Name: ATI Radeon HD 5900 Series
Manufacturer / Chip: ATI Technologies Inc. / ATI display adapter CrossFire Secondary (0x689C)
Video Memory: 3816 MB
Driver Version: 8.681.0.0
Driver Date: 11/24/2009 9:50:14 PM
Driver Language: English

Sound Device Description: Speakers (SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD Audio)
Driver File: ADIHdAud.sys
Driver Version: 6.10.0002.6585
Driver Date: 6/5/2009 4:42:04 AM

Sound Device Description: SPDIF Interface (SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD Audio)
Driver File: ADIHdAud.sys
Driver Version: 6.10.0002.6585
Driver Date: 6/5/2009 4:42:04 AM

Sound Device Description: Digital Output (SoundMAX Integrated Digital HD Audio)
Driver File: ADIHdAud.sys
Driver Version: 6.10.0002.6585
Driver Date: 6/5/2009 4:42:04 AM


WMI Information
Motherboard Manufacturer: ASUSTeK Computer INC.
Motherboard Model: (empty)
Motherboard Product: P6TD DELUXE
Motherboard Version: Rev 1.xx
BIOS Manufacturer: American Megatrends Inc.
BIOS Name: BIOS Date: 11/11/09 17:22:03 Ver: 08.00.15
BIOS Version: 111109 - 20091111
BIOS Release: 20091111000000.000000+000

Registry Information for Current User
Resolution: 1920x1058
3D Resolution: 1920x1058 (Not using renderscale)
Full Screen: No
Maximized: Yes
Screen Position: 0, 0
Refresh Rate: 60Hz
Vertical Sync Enabled: No

Physics Quality: Very High
Maximum Particles: 50000
Max Particle Fill? 10.000
Physics Card Enabled: No

Anti-aliasing: Unknown (0)
Anisotropic Filtering: 16x
Texture LOD Bias: Smooth
Water Effects: Low Quality
Bloom: 0.890 (turned off)
Depth of Field Enabled: No
Desaturation Effects (Sepia) Enabled: No
Shader Detail: High

World Texture Level: High
Character Texture Level: High
World Detail Level (Vis_Scale): 2.000
Entity Detail Level: 2.000
Shadows Enabled: Yes
Gamma Correction: 0.820
Geometry Buffers (VBOs) Enabled: Yes
Suppression of Extra Player FX Enabled: No
Suppression of FX When Camera Close Enabled: Yes
Close Suppression Range: 70.000
Show Advertisements: Yes

Audio Mode: Performance
3D Audio: Yes
FX Sound Volume: 0.530
Music Sound Volume: 0.240

Show Advanced Graphics Options: Yes
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Reverse Mouse Buttons: No
Save Login Username: Yes
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Current Game Version: 1600.20091102.9T4
Installation Directory: C:\Program Files (x86)\City of Heroes

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Posted

Just wondering if anyone can tell me how these specs will work for Ultra Mode;

# Processor: AMD Phenom II X4 945 3.0ghz 4000MT/S 6mb Cache SKT AM3
Processor Interface : Socket AM3

# Memory: Major Brand 4gb DDR2 800 PC6400 CL6.0 Memory Module

# Hard Drive: Branded 1tb Sata 7200rpm 16mb Cache HDD

# Graphics Card: Nvidia GTX260 896mb DDR3 Graphics Card Dual DVI HDMI

# Motherboard: Asrock K10N78 Full HD-HSLI AM2 5200MT/S Nvidia 8200 Chipset SKT AM2

# Max Memory Support: 16gb DDR2 1066

# Motherboard Expansion Slots: 1x PCI-E 16x, 1x PCI-E 1x, 2x 32-bit PCI

# Network Card: 10/100/1000 Giga PHY RTL8211B

# Audio: 5.1 CH Windows Vista Premium Level HD Audio (Realtek ALC662 Audio Codec)

# Optical Drive: 20x Lightscribe DVD Writer with Buffer Underrun Protection

# Power Supply: Branded 750w 24Pin Power Supply Unit

Much appreciated!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
Will Ultra mode require DirectX 11? I use Windows XP, and I have no desire or plan to upgrade to Vista or Windows 7 (Vista do-over) for now. Maybe on my next PC but not on my current one.

Will the Ultra Mode make COH no longer work on Windows XP (i.e. use DirectX 11)?

Thanks,

Lewis
I asked this a while ago and it turns out CoH/V uses OpenGL which is completely different, but it utilises some of the same technologies (e.g. Ambient Occlusion, which I think is Dx10(or 10.1) not sure. Either way I'm pretty sure you'd need such a high end card like a Radio 5000 series because they support whatever the latest OpenGL version is.. I think it may be 3.0 or something like that.

What I wanna know about i17 is, with the ultra mode will we be getting updated Character models (I don't want mittens anymore!) and will we be getting improved lighting effects like where you fire off a power and the light from it shines around the room kinda thing...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zikar View Post
Remember when upgrading anything, to make sure both your motherboard and power supply can take it.
That's a good point, actually. I checked my purchase specs, and it turns out I have some kind of "economy" box that, aside from being tiny and crammed, also has a weak-ish power supply, something like 300 Watts. Ew! Don't want my computer resetting on me when I load it, only to have the people in the shop laugh at me when I take it in. Once was enough.

I think I'll just kick this box to the curb and swap parts with a much bigger one that should have an equally good motherboard. I don't have much to keep, currently, apart from two hard drives and a sound card. A sound card I'm not using, mind you, sine my video card is using the only PCI slot. I HATE compact models!

Also, City of Heroes currently only uses two threads, but do we actually know whether Ultra Mode programming won't let it use more? From what I've seen, they're digging VERY deep inside the engine to swap out parts and bolt on upgrades, so maybe we'll get a bit of a tune-up of the existing game? What better way to please customers than a graphics upgrade that makes the game run BETTER?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by je_saist View Post
The Nvidia GTX 2xx cards, the GTX 260, GTX 275, GTX 280, GTX 285, and the dual chip GTX 295 all have been end-of-lifed. No more chips are being made. The starting point for these cards, if you can find them, is around $200.

More importantly, these cards do not support DirectX 11 or OpenGL 3.2, and they cost more for the same performance than the old RadeonHD 4x00 cards that do not support DX11 or OpenGL 3.2.
This continues to be both false and misleading. Nvidia 8 series and more recent, including all of the above cards, support OpenGL 3.2 (and OpenCL 1.0). OpenGL 3.1 support was available in the 190 series drivers back in August 2009, and the 191 series drivers from October 2009 upgraded support to full OpenGL 3.2. In comparison, as best I could tell ATI didn't offer OpenGL 3.2 support until the Catalyst 9.12 drivers from December 2009.

It is true that the 200 series cards you list only support DX10.1, not DX11. Since City of Heroes doesn't use DirectX, this is irrelevant to the direct discussion, but many people play other games. What this actually means even indirectly is pretty debatable; the majority of games don't require anything better than DX9, because that basically means writing off all the potential buyers running Windows XP. There's less than a half-dozen games out that even support DX11, and none of them seem to require better than DX9; even the list of announced games that will support (not require) DX11 is pretty short. I'd guess the absolute earliest we'd see a major AAA DX11-required game would be Christmas 2010, likely to be a FPS of some sort; but it wouldn't surprise me if it's up to a full year later than that, and more like two years before it's more than a niche. Remember, DX10 came out back in 2006, and here in 2010 very few games require it.

On another related subject; as for the "go ahead and buy now" commenters, the rumors seem to be flying around as to an ATI refresh in either April or mid-year (June / July). This may make more attractive cards available, reduce the price of existing cards, or both. This really isn't a good time to buy a graphics card unless you need one, especially if your main reason is Ultra Mode; I'd suggest saving up for at least another month or two.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miuramir View Post
On another related subject; as for the "go ahead and buy now" commenters, the rumors seem to be flying around as to an ATI refresh in either April or mid-year (June / July). This may make more attractive cards available, reduce the price of existing cards, or both. This really isn't a good time to buy a graphics card unless you need one, especially if your main reason is Ultra Mode; I'd suggest saving up for at least another month or two.
Quick question - if my reason is Ultra Mode, wouldn't it actually make the most sense to buy now or soon, given that I17 and Ultra Mode seem to be looking at an April release date?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Storm View Post
I asked this a while ago and it turns out CoH/V uses OpenGL which is completely different, but it utilises some of the same technologies (e.g. Ambient Occlusion, which I think is Dx10(or 10.1) not sure. Either way I'm pretty sure you'd need such a high end card like a Radio 5000 series because they support whatever the latest OpenGL version is.. I think it may be 3.0 or something like that.
Sorry for being dim-witted, but I'm not sure about your answer. Did you mean that I'll be OK?

I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is that, with only Windows XP, which situation will occur for me with Ultra Mode:

1) I will be able to play COH in Ultra Mode with Windows XP (in other words, without needing DirectX 11)
2) I will be unable to play COH in Ultra Mode but can still play in Normal mode in Windows XP
3) The Ultra Mode code base will prevent ALL COH gameplay for everyone using Windows XP, whether Ultra is enabled or not, by introducing a 100% unavoidable code/driver dependency on DirectX11 and/or Windows 7.

Which one of those would apply to me?

Lewis


Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan

 

Posted

Windows 7 is superior to XP.


 

Posted

Be that as it may, I just want to know what will happen with my current setup (Win XP):

1) Ultra Mode OK
2) Normal Mode only
3) Totally screwed

Thanks

Lewis


Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan

 

Posted

If your gfx card power supply and everything else is good, i believe you will be fine with XP.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
Sorry for being dim-witted, but I'm not sure about your answer. Did you mean that I'll be OK?

I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is that, with only Windows XP, which situation will occur for me with Ultra Mode:

1) I will be able to play COH in Ultra Mode with Windows XP (in other words, without needing DirectX 11)
2) I will be unable to play COH in Ultra Mode but can still play in Normal mode in Windows XP
3) The Ultra Mode code base will prevent ALL COH gameplay for everyone using Windows XP, whether Ultra is enabled or not, by introducing a 100% unavoidable code/driver dependency on DirectX11 and/or Windows 7.

Which one of those would apply to me?

Lewis
As far as I'm aware, there is no restriction based on which version of Windows supports which version of OpenGL, as all Windows versions currently in use support all versions of OpenGL. To be perfectly honest, I don't know why Microsoft decided to restrict DirectX 10 and up to Vista and up, beyond simple monopoly.

Basically, your version of Windows is irrelevant in regards to how much of Ultra Mode you can see, so long as your system is powerful enough to handle the load.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
Sorry for being dim-witted, but I'm not sure about your answer. Did you mean that I'll be OK?

I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is that, with only Windows XP, which situation will occur for me with Ultra Mode:

1) I will be able to play COH in Ultra Mode with Windows XP (in other words, without needing DirectX 11)
2) I will be unable to play COH in Ultra Mode but can still play in Normal mode in Windows XP
3) The Ultra Mode code base will prevent ALL COH gameplay for everyone using Windows XP, whether Ultra is enabled or not, by introducing a 100% unavoidable code/driver dependency on DirectX11 and/or Windows 7.

Which one of those would apply to me?

Lewis
It's been confirmed Ultra Mode will be completely optional. That means Choice number 1 will be your hot tip for the day. Ultra Mode will not require a specific version of Windows as OpenGL, which CoH is coded in, is not windows specific. The worst thing that may happen is you may need to upgrade your graphics driver and possibly even your card itself.


Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon View Post
I use Windows XP, and I have no desire or plan to upgrade to Vista or Windows 7 (Vista do-over) for now
That sucks for you. Vista is done. Windows 7 is superior to both of them in pretty much every way. Unless, of course, you like living in the past.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
That sucks for you. Vista is done. Windows 7 is superior to both of them in pretty much every way. Unless, of course, you like living in the past.
Not in every way. It uses the XP start menu and won't allow you to use the classic 95 start menu like XP will, so that's at least one way. That, and costing you both money and time reinstalling stuff if you're already running XP to switch over to 7.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Vista was junk. MS doing a money grab by releasing a beta test version of Win7. Upgraded into 7 recently with new hardware (sadly, not enough to set aside for a 200 dollar vid card upgrade to play ultra mode...but just shadows and shiny water, who cares?), it seems pretty good though. This one should last through the next windows "give us money" junk release and all the way to the next good one several years down the road

Doesn't matter so much for CoX, but new games look like they're starting to be vista/7 required. If Positron is secretly working on CoH2...


 

Posted

One thing about video cards I'm never very sure about...

Is there going to be any notable difference between different brands of the same card, or are they all just following the same specification with different box art?

In other words, is there any real difference between a Sapphire 5770, a XFX 5770, a HIS 5770, or a PowerColor 5770? If so, which are the brands to avoid and which ones are good?


"The Hamidon is a what what of what?" - Brian the mission guy.

 

Posted

Best thing I can suggest leese is look at warranties. Some companies give lifetime warranties, others give 2 year ones where others only give one year. I wouldn't really pay extra for overclocked versions because you can usually do that yourself with free software without too much trouble. Often some manufacturers will install their own cooler designs compared to the 'reference' ones which can often be quieter and keep the card cooler. Some people swear by certain brands, others swear AT certain brands. I had a powercolor Ati 9600 Pro back in the day and it was fine, but powercolor are usually the cheapest and I have heard of some problems with failures and returns. Stick to a decent brand such as XFX (no endorsement, just an example) that give good warranties and you'll be fine.


Defiant 50's
Many and varied!
@Miss Chief

 

Posted

Does anyone know if a Intel i3 or i5 will be enough for a Radeon card 5770? I'm trying not to spend too much money on a new computer, and I'm wondering if the i3 will be enough with the Radeon card.

Also, anyone know what Gigahertz speed is recommended to run a Radeon 5770?


Acroyear
Founder/Leader of the JUSTICE F0RCE
http://JusticeForce.guildportal.com

 

Posted

Just to be clear, because I haven't seen it directly quoted in this thread so far.

From the official site:

Quote:

What are the system requirements for City of Heroes?

For Windows PCs:


Minimum System Requirements for City of Heroes:
  • Microsoft® Windows® 2000/XP
  • Intel® Pentium® III 800 MHz or AMD Athlon™ 800 MHz
  • 512 MB RAM
  • CD-ROM Drive *
  • 4 GB Available HDD Space
  • NVIDIA® GeForce 2 Series, ATI™ Radeon® 8500 or Intel® i865G Series Video Card
  • 16-bit Sound Card
  • 56k modem
  • DirectX® 9.0c
Recommended System Specifications for City of Heroes:

  • Microsoft Windows 2000/XP
  • Intel Pentium 4 2.0 GHz or AMD® Athlon XP 2000+
  • 1 GB RAM
  • 16X CD-ROM Drive *
  • 4 GB Available HDD Space
  • NVIDIA GeForce 6200
  • 16-bit Sound Card
  • Broadband Internet Connection DirectX 9.0c
Now, this is for the game as it currently stands. Since the press release regarding Ultra Mode, Positron posted the following information about graphics cards and minimum requirements:
  • For buyers looking to spend under $100, NVidia 9800 GT meets the minimum card for enabling all features at reduced quality settings.
  • For $100-$200, the Radion HD 4800 and GeForce GTX 260 provide mid-grade Ultra Mode quality.
  • For over $200, the GeForce GTX 285 is an excellent choice, and provides the maximum quality.
  • The Radeon 5770, a mid-range card, provides excellent performance.
  • The Radeon 5870 is expected to be one of the fastest for Ultra Mode.
  • Ultra Mode does not support SLI configurations.
In Positron's thread, Red_Green posted a link to a site contains a Graphics Hierarchy Chart, so that you can determine whether or not the card you have meets the minimum requirements. (For example, my current graphics card is an NVidia GeForce GTX 260. According to the chart, it performs roughly equivalent to a Radeon HD 5770. I should be good to go.)

Again, don't neglect your power supply.

SLI and Ultra Mode
I see many people in various threads talking about how they're looking forward to running Ultra Mode with their SLI configurations. However, Positron has specifically stated that Ultra Mode does not support SLI configurations (see his thread, linked above). I just thought people were overlooking that, and it needed stressing.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
Quick question - if my reason is Ultra Mode, wouldn't it actually make the most sense to buy now or soon, given that I17 and Ultra Mode seem to be looking at an April release date?
If I were in the market for an Ultra Mode card (which I'm not, I'm happy with my GTX 275 now and all signs point to it doing at least OK for Ultra in the near term), I would wait until whichever release that has Ultra Mode (probably I17) is either announced to be going into Open Beta, or you get a Closed Beta invite; and purchase from a company with a reasonable return policy. That way, if you're not satisfied with it for whatever reason in actual Ultra Mode testing, you'll hopefully still be within the return period.

There's simply too much variance in systems and users, and too little public information about Ultra Mode, to give more than suggestions. If it were my money, I'd want to be sure that what I ended up with will give the sort of experience I want, through actual testing.


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Posted

I haven't seen any posts on reccommended processor speed for Ultra Mode. I know that 2.0GHz is reccommended for the game in its current state.

I'm looking to build a new PC and would like to know the reccommended CPU speed for Ultra Mode before I start. Thanks.