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So you're going for a reasonably high budget build? Out of those two, for all-around beatfaceitude, DM/SD is probably going to be your best bet. Siphon Life + softcap defenses is incredible. Shield Charge makes up for DM's sad lack of AoE. I'm also reasonably sure that */WP is supposed to be pretty bad in PvP, and defense based sets aren't supposed to suck miserably any more but don't trust me on that: I haven't paid much attention to PvP in 12 Issues.|
Originally Posted by Fallen Prodigy
I need help deciding between a DM/WP and a DM/SD. I'm mainly going for a build that can solo AV's fairly well. Might go for another try at PvP also.
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| Only thing I'm worried about is the End. Is Dark Consumption and Stamina enough? |
So DM/SD is what i'm leaning towards then. I'm easily persuaded 
A few questions though. . .
I noticed most DM builds don't take Touch of Fear. Is it not very useful or do they just find something more practical toward the build to replace it?
And how should my attacks like Dark Consumption, Siphon Life, Soul Drain be slotted? They do great damage plus some very useful effects. Should I go with IO's or Sets?
Basic logic, for me anyway, is that if I can stand toe to toe with an AV with no temps and no inspirations, there is NOTHING in the game that I need to waste time fearing when I could instead be beating their face in.
Siphon Life is a key power with a LOT of slotting possibilities. I recommend frankenslotting since there are so many aspects that need significant enhancement. Here's pretty much the classic thread on the subject.
Soul Drain and Dark Consumption are much more basic, as they're pretty much there for one thing. Dark Consumption is there to recover endurance. Any damage done is incidental, and not worth the enhancement. Soul Drain slotting is all about the recharge. You want it up as much of the time as possible. Again, any damage done is incidental.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Pre-IOs, ToF will have a very significant impact on your survivability. Once you start stacking defense bonuses, ToF becomes less and less significant. You eventually get to the point where ToF contributes so little, it's not worth a power pick.
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Originally Posted by Fallen Prodigy
I noticed most DM builds don't take Touch of Fear. Is it not very useful or do they just find something more practical toward the build to replace it? |
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I have a build that is pretty much unstoppable. Spine/Dark. With combat jumping. All the defenses and debuffs really help out. And, with spine/dark AoEs, it's great for groups too! But the defenses are enough to make any tank Jealous. Though you will need endurance recovery. The endurance drain for all the buffs is horrible. Makes me squishy if I run out of endurance when I'm exemplared. But, other than that, It's an amazing combo.
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What in the world does Spines/Dark have to do with a discussion about DM/WP and DM/SD and how they each apply to AV soloing and PvP? Please post stuff that's actually on topic rather than just blathering about your favorite farm toon in a conversation about single target DPS specialists.
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Originally Posted by Tordek Miengenw
I have a build that is pretty much unstoppable. Spine/Dark. With combat jumping. All the defenses and debuffs really help out. And, with spine/dark AoEs, it's great for groups too! But the defenses are enough to make any tank Jealous. Though you will need endurance recovery. The endurance drain for all the buffs is horrible. Makes me squishy if I run out of endurance when I'm exemplared. But, other than that, It's an amazing combo.
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These goals are almost completely contradictory. |
Originally Posted by Fallen Prodigy
I need help deciding between a DM/WP and a DM/SD. I'm mainly going for a build that can solo AV's fairly well. Might go for another try at PvP also.
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The same powers work differently in PvE and PvP...sometimes radically so. It's why fire/regen for scrappers come off on the top of the heap for PvP but is rather mediocre for AV soloing. While you can PvP with anything, the build goals are quite different.
I'd concentrate on one goal first and then build an entirely different character for the second. The only combination I can think of that could possibly do both (again, you'd need different builds, but at least you woudn't change primary/secondary) is BS/Regen.
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Allow me to translate, since you probably don't speak "Umbral" yet.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
What in the world does Spines/Dark have to do with a discussion about DM/WP and DM/SD and how they each apply to AV soloing and PvP? Please post stuff that's actually on topic rather than just blathering about your favorite farm toon in a conversation about single target DPS specialists.
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Umbral, our forum ambassador, welcomes you!
Spines/Dark is very good farmer. Don't pick it for soloing AVs. There are much better combinations for the job. Mind you, Shred Monkey is putting together a Spines/Electric for AV soloing, pylon soloing, the RWZ challenge and that sort of thing. But he's doing it SPECIFICALLY because he felt it would be the WORST combination for the job, and therefore the biggest challenge. He's also backing up what some of us tend to say on the forum, which is that any/any can solo AVs no temps no insps with the right build. But just because a build CAN do so doesn't mean it's the weapon of choice.
Dark Melee/Shield Defense is probably your weapon of choice if you have a big budget, though you do have a lot of other choices at the top end.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Checks for Broken Bones vicious papercuts or bruised egos,
Hmmm Ive been on the forums for a long time and Umbral has never welcomed me!
But since his "welcomes" are generally responses to stupidit....umm ill informed posts,
I've probably just been lucky so far!
Feel The Burn
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Any particular reason you're picking secondaries that work better against large groups for an AV soloing toon? Both WP and SD get a a huge boost to what are arguably their most desirable powers from being surrounded by large groups.
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Originally Posted by Fallen Prodigy
I need help deciding between a DM/WP and a DM/SD. I'm mainly going for a build that can solo AV's fairly well.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
I, like you, actually prefer WP. It is a great secondary for groups and massive survivability. There are occasional problems with Alphas, but I usually pop a luck or two and I am able to survive until the massive regeneration abilities kick in. I have at least five or more /WP lvl 50 scrappers and three /SD 50s. As for your endurance questions, WP also helps with two forms of stamina powers. however, there is a lot to be said about shield charging a mob of enemies and watching your foes fly!!!! In the end, I think you will enjoy either choice and I sincerely wish you well on your journey!
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Then surround yourself with a large group when AV soloing. It's not like they can actually hurt you.... |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Any particular reason you're picking secondaries that work better against large groups for an AV soloing toon? Both WP and SD get a a huge boost to what are arguably their most desirable powers from being surrounded by large groups.
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/SD in particular is the secondary of choice for AV soloing for three reasons; the ability to softcap Defense, the ability to get to 95% DDR, and AAO for increased DPS. True Grit's HP increase is icing on the cake imho. All the top Scrapper/Brute/Tank DPS numbers have /Shield as their secondary.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Any particular reason you're picking secondaries that work better against large groups for an AV soloing toon? Both WP and SD get a a huge boost to what are arguably their most desirable powers from being surrounded by large groups.
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Around here, we call this tough love.
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Originally Posted by TerraScorcher
Checks for Broken Bones vicious papercuts or bruised egos,
Hmmm Ive been on the forums for a long time and Umbral has never welcomed me! But since his "welcomes" are generally responses to stupidit....umm ill informed posts, I've probably just been lucky so far! |
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Both WP and SD are fairly subpar when it comes to PvPing. If I had to choose one I'd go with WP over SD for PvPing due to the + Perception and the +HP and the decent resistances. |
Originally Posted by Fallen Prodigy
I need help deciding between a DM/WP and a DM/SD. I'm mainly going for a build that can solo AV's fairly well. Might go for another try at PvP also.
WP is easily my favorite scrapper set to go with but I notice it has some trouble taking Alphas. Could be I'm just slotting my builds wrong *shrug* Shield I've never tried, but from what I've seen they're pretty amazing. Only thing I'm worried about is the End. Is Dark Consumption and Stamina enough? And I know I know, the best powerset is the one you have the most fun playing. Trouble is I like to play just about any Scrapper. x_x So, any and all pointers, advice, builds etc. etc. is appreciated |
Shield is great for PvE. There are plenty of Dark/Shield thread floating around the scrapper section.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Okay then, seperate the goals. When I posted this I was just adding PvP as an afterthought. This game doesn't have a strong enough base to make a pure PvP character anyways. What I want is a toon who can solo AV's and, at the very least, hold it's own in PvP. If that's not possible between the two sets, or if it would cost two builds to do (I can barely afford one build!!) then forget it. I'll have to be content with soloing an AV |
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
These goals are almost completely contradictory.
The same powers work differently in PvE and PvP...sometimes radically so. It's why fire/regen for scrappers come off on the top of the heap for PvP but is rather mediocre for AV soloing. While you can PvP with anything, the build goals are quite different. |
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Originally Posted by Gaidin
/SD in particular is the secondary of choice for AV soloing for three reasons; the ability to softcap Defense, the ability to get to 95% DDR, and AAO for increased DPS. True Grit's HP increase is icing on the cake imho. All the top Scrapper/Brute/Tank DPS numbers have /Shield as their secondary.
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DM/Shields on a Scrapper, without question. WP is a great set (although I prefer it on higher HP ATs) but Shields & Dark Melee just go together so well, especially on a Scrapper with Against All Odds and Soul Drain sending your damage right up and Siphon Life meshing with Shields defense. Dark Consumption works well with Shields too (it's almost unneeded for a WP, you can just take Stamina and Quick Recovery instead).
Shields probably have more IO potential than Willpower too, and to be honest DM/WP gets dull after a while. Shield Charge never gets dull.
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I read it that way EVERY time, but no.|
Originally Posted by Fallen Prodigy
Okay, I'm guessing that DDR does NOT = Dance Dance Revolution? x_x
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DDR = Defense Debuff Resistance
On an IO'd out shields, defense debuffs are not a problem. Some AVs debuff defense. You'll do better against those AVs than someone without as much DDR. And against Arachnos, and against Cimerorans, and against any cheap minion with a gun, and...
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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To attempt clerify further:|
Originally Posted by Werner
I read it that way EVERY time, but no.
DDR = Defense Debuff Resistance On an IO'd out shields, defense debuffs are not a problem. Some AVs debuff defense. You'll do better against those AVs than someone without as much DDR. And against Arachnos, and against Cimerorans, and against any cheap minion with a gun, and... |
Defense Debuff Resistance = Your ability to resist (decrease the magnatude) of the debuffs badguys use against you to lower your defense level.
(or You're defense will not decrease as when you get shot by something that does -defense)
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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heh heh. Werner and Shred pretty much covered the bases on it, but I had to acknowledge the humor. |
Originally Posted by Fallen Prodigy
Okay, I'm guessing that DDR does NOT = Dance Dance Revolution? x_x
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I have to be missing something here. I thought /sr was the one to get the high DDR and while /sd had it, it was lower.
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Originally Posted by Gaidin
/SD in particular is the secondary of choice for AV soloing for three reasons; the ability to softcap Defense, the ability to get to 95% DDR
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SD needs Hamidon Origin Enhancements in order to achieve 95% DDR. Active Defense doesn't accept any defense sets or defense buffing enhancements unless it enhances some other enhanceable aspect.
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Originally Posted by Amy_Amp
I have to be missing something here. I thought /sr was the one to get the high DDR and while /sd had it, it was lower.
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
The trick is getting super high recharge to perma double stack Active Defense, and then putting Membranes in it, which and up buffing the defense debuff resistance. All said and done, I believe you can hit 95%.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Precisely. Double-stacked AD, Grant Cover and the DDR from Battle Agility get you above 95% DDR with three Membranes in AD.|
Originally Posted by Werner
The trick is getting super high recharge to perma double stack Active Defense, and then putting Membranes in it, which and up buffing the defense debuff resistance. All said and done, I believe you can hit 95%.
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I am, however, still wondering if slotting 3 Membranes and 2 Enzymes in AD will actually in-game provide 39.2% DDR with a single application of AD, or if this is simply a miscalculation in Mids, which I am leaning towards. My DM/Shield is at 37, so it'll be a while before I can test this out. If it works, it would make getting to 95% DDR possible without the need for Grant Cover.
I need help deciding between a DM/WP and a DM/SD. I'm mainly going for a build that can solo AV's fairly well. Might go for another try at PvP also.
WP is easily my favorite scrapper set to go with but I notice it has some trouble taking Alphas. Could be I'm just slotting my builds wrong *shrug* Shield I've never tried, but from what I've seen they're pretty amazing. Only thing I'm worried about is the End. Is Dark Consumption and Stamina enough? And I know I know, the best powerset is the one you have the most fun playing. Trouble is I like to play just about any Scrapper. x_x
So, any and all pointers, advice, builds etc. etc. is appreciated