Ice Control is ok, but it's arguably the weakest set control-wise.
Plant/Fire is a early blooming (sorry 
) combo that is commonly recommended to new Doms. It's got some nice damage with some excellent early control with Seeds of Confusion.
Other sets you might consider that are good to start out with are Plant Control, Earth Control, Mind Control and (not for the faint-of-heart) Fire Control. Ice and Grav are low control sets without Fire's redeeming damage.
For secondary I recommend Fiery Assault, Psionic Assault and (if you don't mind ST) Earth or Elec Assault. Icy Assault is heavy on the endurance, Thorny Assault has a redraw effect many don't like and Energy Assault still sucks (just not as bad as before).
Is ice control different on doms or something? It's usually considered one of the better control sets for controllers with all the soft control it has.
That's another question I had too actually, what are the main differences between the dom and troller versions of the sets? Looks like mostly shorter durations for dominators?
I've been leveling up a Mind/Elec and I'm enjoying the great single target damage, I'll definitely need to pick up a patron aoe blast to give it some more aoe damage though.
I asked around a little about control sets before making it and while no one said Ice control was unplayable, they all said that other sets had better control or damage or utility. This was for both Trollers and Doms.
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I am curious why you think energy assault still sucks? I find it to be the best single target damage secondary for dominator's combined with a lot of extra control. I agree that the tier 1 is still questionable, mostly because it's damage is primarily smashing, but power push is an insanely good attack (full tier 2 damage, 100% KB, 1.4 accuracy and an insanely fast cast time) and the other attacks are all good damage with decent activation times. This is one of the few secondaries that allows you to put together a full ranged attack chain by L10 (power bolt + power push + power blast). |
Originally Posted by MinMin
For secondary I recommend Fiery Assault, Psionic Assault and (if you don't mind ST) Earth or Elec Assault. Icy Assault is heavy on the endurance, Thorny Assault has a redraw effect many don't like and Energy Assault still sucks (just not as bad as before).
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Electric Assault is the only real contender for single target king and while you can put together a tighter attack chain early on due to the faster recharging melee attacks this same factor hurts you later on when you are reasonably slotted for recharge. (plus mixing melee and ranged degrades the effectiveness somewhat as you have to dash in and out of combat). While electric does have build up I remember someone's analysis of the numbers showing that the two sets where approximately equal once you factored in build up. Neither is great on AE so the only real difference there is whether you prefer a cone or a PBAE as whirling hands and static discharge do the same damage. Thunderstike doesn't count as AE because the actual AE damage is TINY, unlike brute thunderstrike.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
You're forgetting Earth Assault. That's the new ST king right there. It sacrifices range to pull it off, but no set has better ST melee than Earth and it's the only assault set with a Hold for some nice stacking tricks with your primary.
I haven't seen any damage comparison that factors in Build Up where Energy Assault comes off looking good. Certainly my subjective experience with the two sets has Elec out in front by a considerable margin. Any comparison would probably be factoring in Total Focus as well and (again subjectively) the animation time on that makes it a real problem for a Dominator playstyle.
In short, 3 single-target damage contenders:
(3) Lowest damage, lots of extra control, Power Boost
(2) Build up, therefore better damage
(1) Highest damage, lots of extra control, Power Boost, mostly melee
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Originally Posted by MinMin
You're forgetting Earth Assault. That's the new ST king right there. It sacrifices range to pull it off, but no set has better ST melee than Earth and it's the only assault set with a Hold for some nice stacking tricks with your primary.
I haven't seen any damage comparison that factors in Build Up where Energy Assault comes off looking good. Certainly my subjective experience with the two sets has Elec out in front by a considerable margin. Any comparison would probably be factoring in Total Focus as well and (again subjectively) the animation time on that makes it a real problem for a Dominator playstyle. In short, 3 single-target damage contenders: (3) Lowest damage, lots of extra control, Power Boost (2) Build up, therefore better damage (1) Highest damage, lots of extra control, Power Boost, mostly melee |
All good points although my experience with both energy and electric has them fairly even and earth has the problem that it is all smashing damage. My memory of someone running numbers was back in the beta for the issue that updated dominators so I doubt I could find the post again but I recall it being someone whose numbers I usually respected.
I still think you are being a bit harsh by claiming it 'sucks'. I think at this point in time none of the secondaries actively sucks, some are just better than others and frequently only by small degrees. I like energy because it has a smoother levelling curve - I don't have to wait until 38 for a solid ranged attack chain, I can put a decent one together by level 10. Even with earth you are not going to have a full melee attack chain until L31 when seismic smash is fully slotted out.
Also, Seismic smash looks to be the only reason that that earth would beat out energy for single target DPA anyways - bone smasher has a better DPA than stone mallet (114 dam/1.5s activation vs 95 dam/1.6s activation) and is likely to be nearly as good as heavy mallet and power push has an insane DPA with its 1 second activation time.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
You're right that I'm being harsh about Energy Assault.
Objectively, it's an okay all-round set that offers extra control options, but it's not the strongest Assault set by any means. It's only major let-down is its lack of AoE options.
Subjectively, I'm bitter about the set. I was extremely disappointed the first time round (before I15) as it was meant to be the ST king and was actually nearly the worst in ST and definitely the worst in AoE. Then after I15, it's still not the best of ST and it's still the worst in AoE. (Static Discharge and Whirling Hands do the same damage, but Elec can boost its damage).
Snarkily, it's an okay all-round set that offers extra control options to an AT that has excellent control options already. The set really doesn't excel in any area. Every other Assault set does something better than Energy Assault.
So, in all fairness, I can't use the term "sucks". I should instead use the term "mediocre".
in pvp energy is great...my powerboosted flashfire is amazing and most avoid me due to my SHEER POWUH!!!!!
but is mehh in pve but it does have it's uses...mind/energy is great on the rsf for permasleepin those av's....
Energy is more than just Power Boost, particularly considering Power Boost is in two other sets.
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Recently I got my Mind/Fire to 50 and had a great time doing it. I recommend it. |
Originally Posted by firespray
I'm thinking of going ice/fire. is it a good combo? What are some other good dom combos out there I might want to try?
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While I haven't played an Ice Dom, I recently did an Ice/Kin controller. I enjoyed Ice overall but felt like it synergized better with Kin due to Arctic Air. That power rocks but requires you to jump in amidst the spawn. If I'm going to be there anyway I might as well benefit from Fulcrum Shift.
With my Mind/Fire Dom I wanted to play mostly at range so I skipped Combustion and it was all good.
If you go with Ice, you might want to consider going Ice/Earth, with the reasoning being that you're going to be in melee with AA anyway, so Earth Assault's lack of range isn't an issue.
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Ice/Earth is pretty decent. Open with Ice Slick to mitigate the Alpha, cast Shiver, move in to close range and let Arctic Air take hold, apply Frostbite to keep the mobs in AA and then smash in melee range.
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Originally Posted by Sardan
Recently I got my Mind/Fire to 50 and had a great time doing it. I recommend it.
While I haven't played an Ice Dom, I recently did an Ice/Kin controller. I enjoyed Ice overall but felt like it synergized better with Kin due to Arctic Air. That power rocks but requires you to jump in amidst the spawn. If I'm going to be there anyway I might as well benefit from Fulcrum Shift. With my Mind/Fire Dom I wanted to play mostly at range so I skipped Combustion and it was all good. If you go with Ice, you might want to consider going Ice/Earth, with the reasoning being that you're going to be in melee with AA anyway, so Earth Assault's lack of range isn't an issue. |
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Seconding this. Still have to get those last few levels on my Mind/Fire, but it took off early and just kept going - it's a great set. |
Originally Posted by Sardan
Recently I got my Mind/Fire to 50 and had a great time doing it. I recommend it.
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I like Ice, if I'm looking for control - but I will say this. If you've played an ice controller, you'll likely have to un-learn quite a bit. I think starting as an Ice troller (I've got a few, including a 50 ice/emp) made starting with Ice as a dom harder just because of that un-learning. (Of course, I could say the same about Earth, and many sets - others, like Fire, don't really have that issue IMHO.)
I'm having fun with Earth/Psy. Seems very safe and I have even taken the alpha for mid sized teams at mid level 20's.
I rolled a Fire/Earth.
I haven't gotten very far with it, but it looks like it has good synergy. Fire Control rewards you for being in melee range (Hot Feet and it's AoE hold is a PBAoE) and Earth Assault has Mud Pots (which also has a low mag immobilize component) to stack with Hot Feet. Since the majority of Earth Assault's attacks are melee range you will want to be in melee most of the time anyway.
I imagine Ice/Earth would be a decent combo as well.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Soft control isn't as spiffy for a Dominator, in my opinion. Its fine on a controller, where the survival-boosting secondaries combine well with soft control, magnifying it, sometimes even miraculously. On a Dominator, though, not so much. I've played a couple of Ice Dominators and they just don't feel as safe as others. It could be me though.|
Originally Posted by firespray
Is ice control different on doms or something? It's usually considered one of the better control sets for controllers with all the soft control it has.
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BTW, I don't consider Ice Control to be one of the best control primaries. I would rate Earth, Plant, Illusion and Mind as being better generally. I would rate Gravity as worse generally, but largely due to its late blooming nature. Otherwise, Fire and Gravity are better or worse depending on your goals and your secondaries.
On the Dominator side, I have definitely had a harder time being effective with Ice Control than with others. I am not saying its ineffective, its just that somehow it doesn't work as well for my playstyle. Things may be different for you. And certainly, I have more Ice Controller experience than Ice Dominator experience. So, maybe I've just not gotten enough playtime under my belt, but Ice Control on a Dominator has been more of a challenge for me than other Dominators.
Lewis
(Ice/FF 50, Ice/Storm 50, Ice/Kin 42, Ice/Empathy 36, Ice/Psychic 40, Ice/Fire 34)
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Your experience meshes with my own; I find Ice Control's soft control to only be satisfactory when I'm dealing with a group, or someone else's augmenting survival. Two ice doms together are probably great, but a single one is a weak soloist, in my experience. I would file Ice Control under 'Team Player.'
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Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Soft control isn't as spiffy for a Dominator, in my opinion. Its fine on a controller, where the survival-boosting secondaries combine well with soft control, magnifying it, sometimes even miraculously. On a Dominator, though, not so much. I've played a couple of Ice Dominators and they just don't feel as safe as others. It could be me though.
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This, Ice Control is the least likely to make me go "Nnnngh!" when I'm playing a Brute. When mass hard control is needed, a Domination-boosted Glacier is enough for the job, IME.|
Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
I would file Ice Control under 'Team Player.'
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Shiver + AA is enough most of the time.
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Im realtivly new to Doms my self, but im no stranger to the Mechanics they use.|
Originally Posted by firespray
Is ice control different on doms or something? It's usually considered one of the better control sets for controllers with all the soft control it has.
That's another question I had too actually, what are the main differences between the dom and troller versions of the sets? Looks like mostly shorter durations for dominators? |
Others have suggjessted some decent, to good builds, but they arnt for everyone.
Im currently playing a Earth/Earth built Dom, and I do very well with this build, and it does alot of damage for my play-style.Many down the Ice Primary for Doms because its veiwed the same way it is for Controllers.As a lacking in damage Primary vs others that carry more weight with damage.So naturally, more people will suggjest anything in place of Ice Control for a Dom, which theres nothing wrong with.
I personally like the Ice Control set, and when I figure out which Secondary Assault set will give me the most AoE damage and will agree with my theme, ill be making a Ice Control Dom.
Its got alot of damage midigators in it.Powers that will stop incomming damage, if not lessen it is the best way to veiw Ice Control when I picked it for a upcomming Dom.
It would allow you saftly to get into melee range to use just about any Assualt set.The only trick is, what set will you choose if you go Ice?Fire Assault seems like decent mix, but im going to pass on using that one personally.
To be honest, a Ice/Thorn or a Ice/Stone would be pretty good to catch up on damage agenst the lacking Ice Control has.Many make mention of the Thorn's redraw if you use anything outside the assault set, but thats not not really that big of a deal in the long run when everythings flopping onto its butt, or confused, and just down right slowed to a crawl from your Ice primary anyhow.
Thats just my take on it.
Now that iv been thinking about it while iv been writting this post, iv decided to go Ice Control/Ice Assault for my second Dom.Its the only Combat set that has one of the prettiest attacks for melee.Ice Sword Circle.
Now just to come up with a Theme.
A little shocked that Fire/Psi hasnt been mentioned yet...
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Fire/Psi is a good combo, but Fire Control is a fairly rough introduction to Doms. Quite doable, but you've got to learn to live life closer to the edge than most other Doms.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
A little shocked that Fire/Psi hasnt been mentioned yet...
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Yay, necro-post time!
Ice/Earth has been mentioned a few times in this particular thread. What about Earth/Ice? I would mostly solo, frequently duo, and only occasionally team. This won't be a Badge toon, or one to run Task Forces/etc. Don't need an AV killer. Just curious how well these two might mesh, if at all, for a concept I'm working on.
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I'm kinda meh on it. With the earth primary the extra slows and -rech from the secondary become largely redundant.
IME the best part of the pairing is power boost which becomes vastly less important if you build a perma dom.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Ice is a fun set, in my experience, and if you're interested in it then by all means have at it. The critiques being offered up have merit, as dominators don't have access to controller secondaries, and controller secondaries do in some ways pair up better with ice control than dominator secondaries; controller secondaries can really help the defensive possibilities of ice control by helping you further reduce incoming damage or by helping you heal damage that makes its way through the soft controls of ice. Still, the game is mature enough and well balanced enough that you need not be concerned about making an ineffective character by choosing one or another powerset. If you have enough of an understanding of the game to notice fine differences in the duration of control powers, then I can't see you having much trouble playing any of the dominator primaries.
If you'd like to heal up damage making its way through the soft controls of ice, you can opt for the psionic assault secondary; drain psyche will help greatly for healing damage that leaks through, as well as for managing the steady endurance drain of running arctic air. You'll have strong AOE damage and OK single target damage, but you'll definitely have an effective character with a well built, well played ice/psy dominator--as well as one that's unusually helpful against AVs / heroes / GMs, because of drain psyche.
To address your other question about mez durations, how control powers perform outside domination and how they perform while domination is active are quite different. Mez duration and magnitude increase significantly while domination is active. Thus, you can hold a boss with a single casting of a hold power, while domination is active, which is quite handy. And, if you take an assault set with power boost, you can make mez durations even longer.
Edit: I didn't notice the "necro-post", and I responded to the OP. Doh!
How is the combo of Earth / Fire if I may ask?
I've never played a dom before, so I'm finally trying one out. I'm thinking of going ice/fire. is it a good combo? What are some other good dom combos out there I might want to try?