What would you take if stamina didn't exist?
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-02-06 01:22 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
I'd be taking a shot of Bourbon after every forth enemy
There is no such thing as an "innocent bystander"
I'd probably take leadership on more toons, or take more power choices from my Epic pool (usually I only have room for 1 or 2). It really depends on the toon though.
As far as what my favorite toon that didn't take stamina is, the only answer I can give is my dark/regen scrapper, since that is quite literally the only toon I've ever made that didn't take stamina.
I'd probably have to slot Rest with several recharge reductions. 
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I would probably take more powers from ancillary/epic pools than I now typically do. Since Ninja Run, my more durable characters are skipping travel powers from time to time; that is likely to be another choice.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Fenix
Let's have a little thought experiment. Imagine every character got a bonus to endurance recovery that scaled by level such that by level 25 or so it was equivalent to 3-slotted stamina. Now also imagine the stamina power no longer existed. What powers would you add to your builds that you normally wouldn't, now that you don't have to take stamina?
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<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
I would take the same powers I already take, since I don't use Stamina on the vast majority of my characters. Most of which are powers that go with the concept of the character.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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Welcome fellow conceptor!!
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
I would take the same powers I already take, since I don't use Stamina on the vast majority of my characters. Most of which are powers that go with the concept of the character.
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*waves* |
Originally Posted by Scythus
Welcome fellow conceptor!!
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Hello.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
One of the interesting paradoxes of power selection in CoX is that you often have a limited number of power selections, so you're often faced with a choice of getting Stamina or X. Unfortunately, 'X' often means toggles, which, as others have pointed out on this thread, it's hard to efficiently run without Stamina. So you can get Leadership or Fighting and not be able to afford the Stamina cost, or get Stamina and not really need it, since you don't have the power slots for those toggles.
Since I currently play a Stamina Corruptor without healing, I'd probably take Medicine if Stamina wasn't available.
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This is surprisingly close to what I experience whenever I try to come up with a Staminaless build...
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Originally Posted by MaxLongstreet
One of the interesting paradoxes of power selection in CoX is that you often have a limited number of power selections, so you're often faced with a choice of getting Stamina or X. Unfortunately, 'X' often means toggles, which, as others have pointed out on this thread, it's hard to efficiently run without Stamina. So you can get Leadership or Fighting and not be able to afford the Stamina cost, or get Stamina and not really need it, since you don't have the power slots for those toggles.
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- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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I would love to do that but so far none of my character concepts involves taking a nap every few fights. I guess I should roll up the Narcoleptic Avenger like I've been meaning to.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
I would take the same powers I already take, since I don't use Stamina on the vast majority of my characters. Most of which are powers that go with the concept of the character.
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They're not taking a nap, they're just stopping to catch their breath before continuing. Y'know, like how a real person would.
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Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
I would love to do that but so far none of my character concepts involves taking a nap every few fights. I guess I should roll up the Narcoleptic Avenger like I've been meaning to.
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i would still take stamina even if we had a boost that was equal to stamina. I would take stamina twice now if i could. that said, i'd probably end up with two travel powers on all my characters my cold/rad would get the nuke.
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I exaggerated with narcolepsy, but when Green Arrow crashes into a warehouse full of thugs, he doesn't stop to catch his breath after each group - he moves on towards his objective, takes down the thugs as soon as he gets to them, and doesn't stop for a breather until he's outside the warehouse unless something extraordinary happens to exhaust him.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
They're not taking a nap, they're just stopping to catch their breath before continuing. Y'know, like how a real person would.
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I'm not saying there should be an endless endurance fountain for constant nukes or for chewing down x8 spawns without pausing for breath, because those aren't part of a superhero's normal "flow"; they're the aforementioned "something extraordinary". However, without Stamina or significant end-slotting you can floor out using your normal toggles and tier 1-2 attacks, not even being mobbed by thugs but just going from one group to the next at the same sort of pace that a superhero typically does.
When was the last time you saw a superhero in a comic book "stop for breath" in the middle of a standard sort of warehouse raid or secret-lab takeout? There are three circumstances in which it happens: the character has been swarmed by an extraordinary number of goons (unusually large spawns, which require an extended constant stream of attacks), the character has been attacked by unusually strong enemies (bosses/EBs/AVs, which require more use of expensive powers and so run you down faster in addition to taking longer) or the writer is emphasizing the character's frailty, illness, or other internal problems.
What this boils down to is that if my character requires oxygen devices or a cybernetic heart to keep him from gasping for breath at an "ordinary" superheroic pace, the concept has been impinged upon because he doesn't play like that kind of concept character "should" - he plays like the way the genre treats a superhero who's caught a severe flu. Unless my character concept is "Captain Has-A-Severe-Flu", that hurts the character's concept-feel much more than having the "wrong" entry on his written-out power list does.
I'd take the AOE Presence fear. 
I had it.. but then dropped it for something. I still have the ST fear, taunt, groupfly, and 3 concealment powers :P
It currently varies as of now with whether or not I take Stamina and I often lean towards trying not to get it. I already tend to be rather experimental with my choices.
I honestly don't think it would need to be the equivalent of 3 slotted Stamina to see a difference. Giving players the equivalent of single slotted Stamina along with speeding up the recharge on Rest would work wonders.
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I hate to say it, but you might try playing smarter and not just harder. I don't have to rest between every fight. I also don't have to start every fight with a full Endurance bar either.
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Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
I would love to do that but so far none of my character concepts involves taking a nap every few fights. I guess I should roll up the Narcoleptic Avenger like I've been meaning to.
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There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
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This doesn't happen on every toon, but those with toggles do have issues.|
Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
I hate to say it, but you might try playing smarter and not just harder. I don't have to rest between every fight. I also don't have to start every fight with a full Endurance bar either.
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What, pray tell, constitutes "playing smarter" in this context? Your post comes off to me as rather smug and uninformative.
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Occasionally creating a blue when you think you need one or using your low endurance attacks when you reach 1/4th of your bar. Turning off sprint. Those're just a couple of the tricks I use and so far they've done me well.
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Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
This doesn't happen on every toon, but those with toggles do have issues.
What, pray tell, constitutes "playing smarter" in this context? Your post comes off to me as rather smug and uninformative. |
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Please do not assume that I am leaving Sprint on. Chugging blues is an option, but I do not like it as a long-term solution.|
Originally Posted by Scythus
Occasionally creating a blue when you think you need one or using your low endurance attacks when you reach 1/4th of your bar. Turning off sprint. Those're just a couple of the tricks I use and so far they've done me well.
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I am not talking about spamming every attack to kingdom come here, I am talking about going at a steady pace from spawn to spawn and using mainly basic attacks with defensive toggles on. I feel that it is a problem that doing this requires either end redux slotting, Stamina, frequent breaks or chugging blues, because this is a typical pacing for superheroes. I am particularly displeased at the notion that people who take Stamina because they want to be able to maintain such a pace are somehow "undermining their character concept".
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Being able to fight every foe on a map without having to stop is a character concept. However, you have to make sacrifices in order to gain that ability. In some cases, it is still impossible. Depending on what foes are being fought. |
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
I am particularly displeased at the notion that people who take Stamina because they want to be able to maintain such a pace are somehow "undermining their character concept".
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However, the choice of Stamina is also based on your play-style. Most other character concepts are not. But, the choice of Which AT to make your fire based character is. So, Stamina is a choice that is part concept and part play-style. also, one that I don't really need. So, I don't use it often.
As for how to play smarter, don't use all of your defensive toggles in fights where only one or two are needed. My /Dark scrapper doesn't use the energy toggles when she's fighting Tsoo very often because its not needed.
There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"
I still think it's good to understand that some people find Endurance management tedious. You know, even if they were able to work around it with smart playing they won't, because the game is much more fun when they don't have to worry about it. That's how I like to play, I rather worry about my HP than endurance, because not being able to hit the enemy with everything I've got makes me feel weaker than I could be.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
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This. I now play every character like I play my Brutes: If there's still something alive, I attack it with extreme prejudice, with the best attacks available to me to do so. Said attacks all contain the equivalent of 1-2 endreduxes. If I'm low on end and I have a blue (and I usually buy a handful prior to missions), I pop that. If I'm low on end and I have three insps to combine, I make a blue and pop that. If not... well, rest time. Only if the character can do entire missions like this without pausing for breath do I consider skipping Stamina. Even on those, I'll usually pick it up, since those three inspirations I'd turn into blues would be much more interesting as reds or purples, and there are only rarely three really good alternatives anyway.|
Originally Posted by DSorrow
I still think it's good to understand that some people find Endurance management tedious. You know, even if they were able to work around it with smart playing they won't, because the game is much more fun when they don't have to worry about it. That's how I like to play, I rather worry about my HP than endurance, because not being able to hit the enemy with everything I've got makes me feel weaker than I could be.
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I get Stamina for the same reason I upgraded my dial-up to broadband: waiting sucks.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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At least I'm not sacrificing powers I really really want just so I can have a little extra endurance (which on observation I find Stamina doesn't always work as well as you say it does).
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Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
I am particularly displeased at the notion that people who take Stamina because they want to be able to maintain such a pace are somehow "undermining their character concept".
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which is why i said i would take it twice if i could. end management is boring plain and simple. what is fun about waiting for your blue bar to fill up enough to attack the guy in front of you?
What you're essentially proposing here is removing the need for EndMod (which is, essentially, endurance recovery) by massively buffing EndRed (endurance consumption reduction).
My thought experiment was to give an inherent bonus to all characters equivalent to Stamina, that is, increased endurance recovery. I did NOT propose reducing the endurance cost of attacks.
In any case, the focus of the question was intended to be power selection given that a commonly taken power was no longer available or needed. I wanted to suggest the thought experiment in such a way as to have minimal other effects on the game.