Mental Scramble Power - is it autohit?


Elfis_Presley

 

Posted

For the first time in a long while my bane is back to fighting arachnos at L45 as he finishes up some of Westin Phipps arc's and every single tarantula mistress he fights is hitting with mental scramble despite having softcapped ranged def. Unfortunately since that attack doesn't show up on the combat monitor I can't tell if I have just been incredibly unlucky or if it is not being affected by my ranged def.

Unfortunately since that attack shreds my def AND blinds me (I haven't been able to fit TT: Leadership into the build yet - it comes at 47) its a real pain. According to the wiki page this attack is ranged, psionic, which would mean it should almost never hit but so far I have been hit by 3 in a row (well, 3 mistresses in a row, not 3 attacks in a row).


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Posted

i think its just getting unlucky because i know ive avoided the mental scramble attack before on various toons (none of which have soft capped defense)


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by EricHough View Post
For the first time in a long while my bane is back to fighting arachnos at L45 as he finishes up some of Westin Phipps arc's and every single tarantula mistress he fights is hitting with mental scramble despite having softcapped ranged def. Unfortunately since that attack doesn't show up on the combat monitor I can't tell if I have just been incredibly unlucky or if it is not being affected by my ranged def.

Unfortunately since that attack shreds my def AND blinds me (I haven't been able to fit TT: Leadership into the build yet - it comes at 47) its a real pain. According to the wiki page this attack is ranged, psionic, which would mean it should almost never hit but so far I have been hit by 3 in a row (well, 3 mistresses in a row, not 3 attacks in a row).
City of Data agrees: coh.redtomax.com/data/powers/power.php?id=V_Arachnos.Fortunata_Mistress_High.Sc ramble_Thoughts.

It's not auto-hit and it's defended v. ranged and psy.

Although, it wouldn't be the first time the Wiki and CoD had it wrong. It may in fact have no positional attribute.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Although, it wouldn't be the first time the Wiki and CoD had it wrong. It may in fact have no positional attribute.
CoD is only wrong when it's out of date on something. Tarantula Mistresses haven't been changed since... um... ever, I think?


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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
CoD is only wrong when it's out of date on something. Tarantula Mistresses haven't been changed since... um... ever, I think?
CoD is wrong on the range of Team Teleport. It was never 25 ft. But, the in-game 'real numbers' is wrong, too, since it says 25 ft.

So, if the in-game real description of Scrambled is wrong, then CoD will be wrong.

Of course, the easiest way to test this is with a toon that is much higher in level than the Tarantula. If Scrambled doesn't miss that toon, then the Ranged component is missing for that power.


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Posted

I've been missed by that power many a time. It's not auto-hit. Believe me, I watch carefully to see if it hits me when I see it ripping along in the air. It's fairly visually distinctive, and it bites when it lands on you.


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Posted

I died to psi clockwork king the other day on my softcapped scrapper. Checked combat log. 3 psi hits in a row - the nuke, 10% chance to hit, succeeded the hit roll, and 2 more attacks that hit for 500, with no hit roll at all.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
CoD is wrong on the range of Team Teleport. It was never 25 ft. But, the in-game 'real numbers' is wrong, too, since it says 25 ft.

So, if the in-game real description of Scrambled is wrong, then CoD will be wrong.

Of course, the easiest way to test this is with a toon that is much higher in level than the Tarantula. If Scrambled doesn't miss that toon, then the Ranged component is missing for that power.
I don't think it's that CoD is wrong on the range of Team Teleport, just that Range on Teleport powers is funny.

Yes, with the normal Teleport, 300 foot range seems pretty self explanatory: You can place the targetting ring up to 300 feet away while unslotted.

But think about the other powers: Recall Friend has a 10000 foot range, but... can you place the targetting ring 10000 feet away? No, which means there is probably a second variable for the range of that targetting graphic. Same with Teleport Foe.

I don't know what is using that 25 foot range of Team Teleport, but it being there doesn't mean CoD is wrong, just that it's probably missing some hidden bit of data that determines how far away that targetting ring can be placed.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elfis_Presley View Post
I died to psi clockwork king the other day on my softcapped scrapper. Checked combat log. 3 psi hits in a row - the nuke, 10% chance to hit, succeeded the hit roll, and 2 more attacks that hit for 500, with no hit roll at all.
Psychic Clockwork King has no autohit attacks, but even they would show a to hit roll. His Psychic Wail power has two chances to do extra damage, maybe that's what hit you?


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Trickshooter View Post
I don't think it's that CoD is wrong on the range of Team Teleport, just that Range on Teleport powers is funny.

Yes, with the normal Teleport, 300 foot range seems pretty self explanatory: You can place the targeting ring up to 300 feet away while unslotted.

But think about the other powers: Recall Friend has a 10000 foot range, but... can you place the targetting ring 10000 feet away? No, which means there is probably a second variable for the range of that targetting graphic. Same with Teleport Foe.

I don't know what is using that 25 foot range of Team Teleport, but it being there doesn't mean CoD is wrong, just that it's probably missing some hidden bit of data that determines how far away that targeting ring can be placed.
I suspect that 25 feet is the radius of the team TP. Meaning anyone within 25 feet of you will get brought along. I believe the actual distance you can teleport is 225 feet or something like that.


 

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Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn View Post
I suspect that 25 feet is the radius of the team TP. Meaning anyone within 25 feet of you will get brought along. I believe the actual distance you can teleport is 225 feet or something like that.
Nope, the radius of affect is 30 feet.

I've tested the distance in game and it is indeed 225 ft.


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Posted

Huh, so I guess the 25' is completely wrong then.


 

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Originally Posted by Nights_Dawn View Post
Huh, so I guess the 25' is completely wrong then.
Now that I think about it, I think the issue is that that 25 foot range shouldn't even be there.

Team Teleport is a PBAoE, so it shouldn't have a range, only a radius. Range determines how far away you can be from your target before a power activates, but a PBAoE targets the casting player, and a player can never be any number of feet away from themselves.

That tells me that the range displayed for this power (as well as the self Teleport power) probably do... nothing, and that the real range is somehow stored differently, or somewhere that CoD is not set up to display.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the ranges listed for those two powers is just there for display purposes, and that the 25 foot range displayed for Team Teleport is a typo (or is possibly left over from a point in beta where it WAS a 25 foot range), but because it doesn't negatively affect anything, there's no rush to fix it.

And I apologize for derailing the thread in to talk of Team Teleport. *blush* For what it's worth, I can say that Mental Scramble is definitely not autohit.


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Posted

Bumping this because I've been under the same misguided notion for years and just thought I was being unlucky / there was enough tarentulas spamming it fast enough that it just hit me: as of today, Mental Scramble ignores defenses, despite all the info about it listing it as ranged and psy. If it doesn't always hit (something I'm not convinced of), I'm willing to bet it does 95% of the time.


 

Posted

Does it ignore psi defense? I know there's several psi powers that are only classified as psi and not ranged and only psi defense will protect you from them.


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Posted

It is indeed typed ranged and psionic, but that doesn't make any difference because the relevant bit is the "Entities autohit: Foe" line near the bottom. (ZM's original link was pointing to the Fortuantas' Scramble Thoughts, which is a different kettle of fish entirely.)


 

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At first I read the title as "Mental Scrabble Power."

/end threadjack


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
Bumping this because I've been under the same misguided notion for years and just thought I was being unlucky / there was enough tarentulas spamming it fast enough that it just hit me: as of today, Mental Scramble ignores defenses, despite all the info about it listing it as ranged and psy. If it doesn't always hit (something I'm not convinced of), I'm willing to bet it does 95% of the time.
Yes. I explicitly tested this a week ago. I had just retooled my Tanker build to incorporate Psi DEF in large part because of the Tarantula Mistress debuff. I stood in front of a single Tarantula Mistress Lieutenant for minutes on end, watching the combat log and monitoring my defense/buff bar. Like clockwork, every 20 seconds or so the TM would stop flailing at me with her metal arms long enough to apply the debuff. My PSI DEF was maxed. She never missed.

Mental Scramble doesn't even appear in the combat log. There is no ToHit roll.

The good news is that each Tarantula Mistress can only apply one instance of the debuff; they apparently only have enough recharge to use it once it expires. Also, the boss version of the Tarantula Mistress apparently doesn't have the power, according to CoD as of the last time I checked.

The only solutions are to kill the Lieutenant Tarantula Mistresses as fast as you can and/or pop Lucks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

Yeah, I've known that it was (currently) auto-hit for a while now, having found it in CoD and seeing the "Entities AutoHit" section. I don't know if it changed. I was very confident in days long gone that I had seen it miss. However, in more recent times it never missed, even on characters like my Night Widow, who has strong Psi defense as well as positional. That got me to go re-investigate, probably around a year ago now, and I saw the auto-hit entry.


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Posted

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Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
Yeah, I've known that it was (currently) auto-hit for a while now, having found it in CoD and seeing the "Entities AutoHit" section. I don't know if it changed. I was very confident in days long gone that I had seen it miss. However, in more recent times it never missed, even on characters like my Night Widow, who has strong Psi defense as well as positional. That got me to go re-investigate, probably around a year ago now, and I saw the auto-hit entry.
Heh, didn't realize this thread was that old until just now. Yeah, always imagined I could get the power to miss, too. I don't know if it was changed at some point or whether it was just because I rarely face Arachnos in small numbers (and there's so much pink crap flying around in large encounters that it's hard to know exactly what's going on).

Anyway, was disappointing to find out the truth.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Obitus View Post

Mental Scramble doesn't even appear in the combat log. There is no ToHit roll.
That is an incorrect assumption. Or maybe "false correlation" would be better. Even auto-hit attacks are supposed to show a to-hit entry if it affects you. The fact that this is not (it would be along the lines of "Mental Scramble was autohit") is a bug. Please report it. Also throw in a line "this seems to be auto-hit, should it be?"


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Posted

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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa View Post
That is an incorrect assumption. Or maybe "false correlation" would be better.
I didn't assume that there's no ToHit roll because it doesn't appear in the combat log. That there is no ToHit roll is rather thoroughly demonstrated by the fact that I stood in front of a Tarantula Mistress for minutes at soft-capped DEF and she never missed.

The fact that the attack also doesn't appear in the combat log is suggestive (and possibly unintended), but it's not the entire basis for my conclusion.

Quote:
Even auto-hit attacks are supposed to show a to-hit entry if it affects you. The fact that this is not (it would be along the lines of "Mental Scramble was autohit") is a bug. Please report it. Also throw in a line "this seems to be auto-hit, should it be?"
Eh, the power probably should appear in the combat log, but after I thought about it, I saw no reason why the power shouldn't be auto-hit. There are more appropriate places to ask if you think the question's worth asking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze View Post
Nice build

 

Posted

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Also, the boss version of the Tarantula Mistress apparently doesn't have the power, according to CoD as of the last time I checked.
Neat, you're right (checked ingame standing still near a level 50 tarantula queen for a few minutes), and that solves the "not autohit" perception issue, at least for me. I probably noticed the times where only a tarantula queen was left alive and confused will dom for mental scramble.