Need a good end for this horror!


ClawsandEffect

 

Posted

Hello all!

So, I decided to go have a look at my WM/WP brute yesterday, and suddenly it hit me: He is *squishy*! He is at lvl 27 atm, having both fitness and QR (somewhy not FH but nvm). The problem is, he kept faceplanting! I have no idea why this would happen on a brute, so I'd like some tips as to why he is so poor for a brute. I have made a build for him, but that is only for when he is at a higher lvl than 27, so please, give me some help to make him more 'Brutish'!


@Global: Difficult One
Playing on European Servers (Union, Defiant)

If a person turns down an idea, he turns down an opportunity to evolve himself

 

Posted

I think we need more information. What are you fighting? What difficulty? and how are you slotted? Are you making use of RTTC, or are you fighting with things at range. At level 27 are your SOs expired? I have a WM/WP brute at level 39 and never noticed that particular canyon but need more information to comment.


 

Posted

It's because you don't have Fast Healing. Get it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
It's because you don't have Fast Healing. Get it.
While FH helps and is very good, that shouldn't make such a huge difference, specialy if he's using RTTC.

Janus, you'll have to post your build. I have a WM/WP brute and i've always found her very resistant.


"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireWyvern View Post
While FH helps and is very good, that shouldn't make such a huge difference, specialy if he's using RTTC.
Approximately 25% of my Tanker's regen comes from Fast Healing. It is a substantial amount of regen lost - especially at lower levels when there's less mitigation running around.

Of course, another issue is at level 27 he's probably running into a lot of exotic damage - villains have a fair amount of CoT at that level, along with Scrapyarders and the starts of Mu Arachnos - and he won't have Heightened Senses yet, so his defence against exotic damage types is practically non-existent at this point, which makes the lost regen from FH all the more important.


 

Posted

He is only level 27, and Heightened Senses isn't available until level 28.

He is getting hit by damn near every exotic damage attack, and taking most of the damage from it. Fire, Cold, Energy, and Negative Energy are getting through unopposed, and are barely being resisted at all. And since the late 20's is when those damage types start to get more common, that would explain why he is getting killed so often.

Fast Healing won't help much if you are taking 90% of the damage from exotic damage atacks, and are not avoiding any of them.

OP: Do NOT skip Heightened Senses in favor of taking Fast Healing at level 28, it will not help that much in your current situation. If you can't respec to take it earlier, it can wait until level 30.

At this point, taking Fast Healing instead of Heightened Senses will not help the situation enough. Regenerating HP does no good at all if you're being hit by 8 electric blasts at once, your HP just drops too fast for Fast Healing to keep you alive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

I was arguing that he respec to take Fast Healing, not that he make it his next power choice.


 

Posted

Thanks for all the comments! I must apologize that I haven't been around here for some time, have been busy. So let me fill ya in:

When I decided to re-try the character, I assumed he would be able to deal with enemies +1 lvl; I don't remember if I have x2 players, though. The current enemy was Councils, and at that lvl the only "exotic damage" is fire/ice from their part. From my own PoV, I have 4 WP powers: HPT, MoB, QR and IW=very indecent damage resistance, at least to F, C, E, NE (and toxic, but meh XP).

A build was requested. I have not made a build for this character, I can list his attacks, but not the amount of slots and enhanceds:

Pulverize
High Pain Tolerance
Mind over Body
Bash
Jawbreaker
Swift
Indominable Will
Hasten
Super Speed
Health
Whirling Mace
Quick Recovery
Stamina
Clobber (Don't remember when exactly I got this power, but still)
Shatter

I remember that not every single slot in my powers were filled, but I remember the character does not have the infamy to SO out.

There, now I have filled out your needs, or some of them...

I have made a build for the character, but I'm not that good at making leveling builds, I think, so I'd like it for you to analize a little.


@Global: Difficult One
Playing on European Servers (Union, Defiant)

If a person turns down an idea, he turns down an opportunity to evolve himself

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanusFrs View Post
Thanks for all the comments! I must apologize that I haven't been around here for some time, have been busy. So let me fill ya in:

When I decided to re-try the character, I assumed he would be able to deal with enemies +1 lvl; I don't remember if I have x2 players, though. The current enemy was Councils, and at that lvl the only "exotic damage" is fire/ice from their part. From my own PoV, I have 4 WP powers: HPT, MoB, QR and IW=very indecent damage resistance, at least to F, C, E, NE (and toxic, but meh XP).

A build was requested. I have not made a build for this character, I can list his attacks, but not the amount of slots and enhanceds:

Pulverize
High Pain Tolerance
Mind over Body
Bash
Jawbreaker
Swift
Indominable Will
Hasten
Super Speed
Health
Whirling Mace
Quick Recovery
Stamina
Clobber (Don't remember when exactly I got this power, but still)
Shatter

I remember that not every single slot in my powers were filled, but I remember the character does not have the infamy to SO out.

There, now I have filled out your needs, or some of them...

I have made a build for the character, but I'm not that good at making leveling builds, I think, so I'd like it for you to analize a little.
Drop Bash, Get Rise to the Challenge. If you have a smooth attack chain after that, drop jawbreaker maybe for fast healing. Fast Healing, along with Rise to The Challenge, will make a huge difference.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanusFrs View Post
I remember that not every single slot in my powers were filled, but I remember the character does not have the infamy to SO out.
No RttC is going to be a huge problem, like snake mention, but this is also an issue; by level 27, the game is balanced assuming you have SO-level enhancements. You're going to want to find a way to make the influence for such an investment (personally, I'd go for level 30 IOs, which deliver superior enhancement to SOs and never need to be replaced).

Now, if you're running around with level 20 and 25 IOs, you're probably okay. But if you're still sporting TOs or DOs, that too will be a source of trouble.

If you're on Virtue, look me up (global is @Eiko-chan) and I'll give you some infamy to help with this.


 

Posted

Uh, yep. There's your problem. With no Fast Healing or Rise to the Challenge you are relying on pure resistance to get you through.

Rise to the Challenge is the power that Willpower is pretty much built around, it is very much the most important power in the set. It increases your regeneration rate for eash enemy in melee range of you, and additionally, imposes a to-hit debuff on every enemy in melee range as well. It is a HUGE part of WP's survivability. Not having a self heal, Willpower relies on a high rate of passive regeneraton to keep it's HP up.

Basically, you want everythng in Willpower up to the last 2 powers, which are optional.

What I do is:

Take the passive that you are forced to take and slot it for heal, not resistance. High Pain Tolerance increases your max HP, which makes the regeneration powers you get later more effective.

Next power in WP for me is Fast Healing, I push the toggles off until I can slot DOs in them at the least. (I take Mind Over Body at level 12 usually)

At levels 6 and 8, focus on your primary, or start any pools you want to have, whichever is more important to you (I recommend one primary power, and one pool power, or 2 primary powers. 2 pool powers isn't a great idea)

I don't take travel powers very often on my melee toons, so if you do, it would be wise to take the opener for your travel power at level 6 or 8.

At 10 and 12 I take Indomitable Will and Mind Over Body. At 14 is my next pool power choice.

At level 16: take Rise to the Challenge! I cannot emphasize this enough. Literally, I tried and I can't emphasize it more than I did

At level 18 is usually a primary power, which is very often an AoE attack. At level 20 I take Quick Recovery.

At levels 22 and 24 you can take whatever, I usually take a couple pool powers or a primary power I couldn't fit in earlier. 26 is almost always the tier8 primary power, unless it's a power I don't want (such as Lightning Clap)

28 should be Heightened Senses. And after 28 you are done with WP unless you want to take the rez or Strength of Will, both are optional and not strictly necessary for a solid WP character.

Willpower benefits a LOT from the Fighting pool, and getting at least Health from the Fitness pool is usally a good idea too. If you take the Fighting pool, I would try and fit Stamina in too, to help offset the extra toggles you're running.

That should help with your Willpower choices, I didn't go into primaries because you can follow this same template with any primary, so it doesn't matter which one you have.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

EDIT: Double post...


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

As a WP you could also push Stamina a bit further, say, into late 20s. Most characters can get by with just Stamina, and you have Quick Recovery which not only does not need any prerequisitive powers, but is also more powerful than Stamina.


- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom

My Katana/Inv Guide

Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan View Post
Now, if you're running around with level 20 and 25 IOs, you're probably okay. But if you're still sporting TOs or DOs, that too will be a source of trouble.

If you're on Virtue, look me up (global is @Eiko-chan) and I'll give you some infamy to help with this.
The interesting thing is, a lot of my powers have slots that AREN'T FILLED. I think it's because back in the days, I didn't really think about getting SOs, as I was only waiting for IO sets, a mistake I have changed a long time ago.

And Claws, thanks a lot for your ideas, I will try and respec my brute, so that he can become more doable. And to all generaly, I am not a noob, not even in WP (although I really needed help ;P) The reason I didn't have RttC is because I couldn't find a spot to put it in, because I often need the Fitness pool, but I will take DSorrow's suggestion and lay off Stamina till later.


@Global: Difficult One
Playing on European Servers (Union, Defiant)

If a person turns down an idea, he turns down an opportunity to evolve himself

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JanusFrs View Post

And Claws, thanks a lot for your ideas, I will try and respec my brute, so that he can become more doable. And to all generaly, I am not a noob, not even in WP (although I really needed help ;P) The reason I didn't have RttC is because I couldn't find a spot to put it in, because I often need the Fitness pool, but I will take DSorrow's suggestion and lay off Stamina till later.
No problem at all. It didn't sound like you were being dumb about it, just that you were worried about the wrong things too early. I usually take Stamina around level 30 or 35 (Scrappers or tanks may not get it at all because they have access to Physical Perfection.)

I usually try to get everything I need/want from my primary and secondary by level 38 so I can focus on an epic pool if I so choose. I can slap together a build when I get home so you have a visual idea what I'm talking about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

I've never understood the desire for WP players to take the Fitness Pool as soon as possible after getting the superior-to-Stamina QR, after all most players have nothing but Stamina and get along fine to level 50! I'm not saying you should skip Fitness necessarily; take it by all means take it if you want it, but there's no reason to delay your attacks or WP's key powers to do so. And by delaying the Fitness pool a bit you should have no trouble getting in the others things you need.

I actually have more experience with War Mace than with WP, and my recommendation is to skip Taunt and one attack, preferable Bash. WM has a limited number of true ST attacks, so I think taking three of the four is the way to go.

Here's what a good power selection would be to level 38, based on Claws recommendations for WP and mine for WM. As you can see, you still have room to get some additional pool powers or patron powers in the last few levels.

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 37 Technology Brute
Primary Power Set: War Mace
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Pulverize -- Empty(A)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Jawbreaker -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Clobber -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Mind Over Body -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Whirling Mace -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Build Up -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Shatter -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Crowd Control -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Strength of Will -- Empty(A)
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fury


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012

 

Posted

With primaries on brutes I like to take the tier 1 and tier 2 attacks early, and then respec out of the tier 1 later on after I have some global recharge. I've found that if you just take the tier 2 and skip the tier 1 entirely you stand around doing nothing a lot in the early levels waiting for that attack to recharge.

My DM/SR still has Shadow Punch, which I use as a filler and to help me build fury faster at the beginning of a fight. After I start acquiring some recharge bonuses I may drop it and use Mu Lightning in it's place.

Just some food for thought. That WM/WP build looks pretty solid though, shouldn't have much trouble leveling it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
With primaries on brutes I like to take the tier 1 and tier 2 attacks early, and then respec out of the tier 1 later on after I have some global recharge. I've found that if you just take the tier 2 and skip the tier 1 entirely you stand around doing nothing a lot in the early levels waiting for that attack to recharge.
Heh, could be my tanker instincts coming into play there--I know if I could drop Bash on either of my WM tanks, I'd do it in a second.

But you're right, for leveling a Brute getting both Bash and Pulverize at first might be preferable. Jawbreaker's KU provides some nice damage mitigation, but it's not a good Fury-building attack.

However, since the OP is at level 27 or so, he should have a number of attacks plus Hasten, and at that point I'd think I'd be okay to skip either Bash or Pulverize.


My Characters

Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012