A few of these are already in PvP as it is.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
I disagree heavily with getting rid of the PvP zones. I only just got my war started on Union! 
Aside from that, some good sounding ideas, Steel. I know I don't know what the Devs have planned for future PvP updates *shrug* but hey ho.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Getting rid of the PvP zones will do two things, piss off the PvP haters and spread out the few PvPers there are. The nonPvPers don't want anything to do with it and if you change it so PvP can happen anywhere, well, there will be so many angry emails to the Devs that it will be like the days when everyone had to go inside the PvP zones to clear the introduction missions. From a business standpoint, do you anger your player base to give something to a small percentage of them?
�Let there be truth, happiness, and waffles�
-Vagabond, Dark Lord & Avatar of Gnarr
The Justiciars
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This would require a major overhaul of the way combat works. Currently if there is more than a 6 or so level difference the lower level has basically no chance of even hurting the higher level (regardless of whether they are players or NPCs).
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Originally Posted by Steelclaw
4) The Incredible Hulk Versus Bob Anyone?: It makes no sense to me that a 50th level hero with years of experience can enter a zone with an 18th level Villain who still has that new-car smell and suddenly they're both the same combat level. Yes, I know this is to "even the playing field" but COME ON! Instead of this mandatory level adjustment I would prefer to see a few more options. Maybe Player A gloated that his build was so awesome he could take on Player B with a five level disadvantage? Maybe two teams want to fight but one has 4 players and one has 8? Allow the characters to CHOOSE their combat level prior to beginning combat. Because, to me, one 50th level character standing down eight 30th levels sounds pretty fun.
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I actually think this hurts your case more than it helps it. Many of the things you mention are already in the current PvP implementation. Some of your other suggestions take away things from the current implentation while adding almost nothing. I'm not sure how taking away options makes things better. |
Originally Posted by Steelclaw
Let me preface the serious part of this post by saying that I DON'T PvP. So I am coming at this issue from about as fresh a perspective as you can get. I have no real bones to gnaw on since I haven't been to the butcher's shop yet. This post is NOT a "What's wrong with PvP" post. It is a "What it would take to get me to PvP" post.
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I don't think it's bad that you'd like to see improvements in PvP, but I think if you aren't knowledgeable about the current implementation, it's hard to make meaningful suggestions that actually improves the current situation.
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You should have left the disclaimer out, to be perfectly blunt. |
Originally Posted by Steelclaw
First, I wish to start by saying that this IS a Steelclaw post but it IS NOT a parody, song, joke list, or any other assorted silliness some of you may have come to expect from me.
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| 1) (Yes, I know... a list... but NOT a joke list) Get Rid of The PVP Zones : All of them. Instead of entering a zone to PvP, those interested should get together and agree to meet in combat in an arena of their choice. They meet in Pocket D or the RWZ or wherever and decide to get it on. You ask where they'lll meet if they can't meet in the PvP Zones? Well, I can't tell you.... until you read #2. |
Not to mention the fact that powers work differently in PvP and PvE zones, making this mechanically impossible without yanking the PvP game out of the game altogether.
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| 2) It's a Big Playground Out There: Listen, we've got maps coming out of our collective I/O ports here. Why are we limited to PvP on just a few of them? If AE allows us to create missions on practically ANY of the maps why can't we PvP there as well? Think how fun it might be to duke it out in Meteor Damaged Atlas Park or go stealthy in the 5 layer cake blue cave of doom! You and your opponent can either agree to a battle zone or let the system choose one randomly. The system would also allow you to either start in random or pre-determined locations within that map. |
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| 3) Superman versus Batman Anyone? : From both a comic book and a role playing perspective it makes little to no sense that only heroes and villains can fight one another. Heroes should be able to fight heroes and it's only natural that evil villains would betray and attack one another. Drop the opposed alignment restriction. Oh, and make the PvP arenas co-op capable so villains can team with heroes if they want or vice-versa. For Role Players this would be an exceptional tool. |
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| 4) The Incredible Hulk Versus Bob Anyone?: It makes no sense to me that a 50th level hero with years of experience can enter a zone with an 18th level Villain who still has that new-car smell and suddenly they're both the same combat level. Yes, I know this is to "even the playing field" but COME ON! Instead of this mandatory level adjustment I would prefer to see a few more options. Maybe Player A gloated that his build was so awesome he could take on Player B with a five level disadvantage? Maybe two teams want to fight but one has 4 players and one has 8? Allow the characters to CHOOSE their combat level prior to beginning combat. Because, to me, one 50th level character standing down eight 30th levels sounds pretty fun. |
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| 5) I'd Like My Battle A La Mode: Once again I turn to AE for this idea. We can now set up destructible items, lead the captive out of the base and several other objectives in our AE missions. Why can't these be used in PvP? A few examples: Each team has a Mascot (hostage) that the other team must first locate, then lead back to their base (exit or starting point). The other team can defeat the hostage stealers to get them back or ignore them to go get THEIR hostage. Or one team has a destructible object they need to protect while the other team must destroy it before the time limit runs out. Many of the AE mission goals can be adapted to PvP situations. The Safeguard/Mayhem missions would be PERFECT for PvP. |
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| 6) If That's The Ace Of Spades On The Table, Then What's Up My Sleeve? : With all the customization I'm suggesting there needs to be a fail-safe so no one SAYS they're going to play their character at 20th level but logs in at 50th instead. When people enter their parameters they go to a screen that shows them what everyone one else involved has entered. If you don't agree to what's shown then discuss in chat what changes need to be made. If you don't click OK then you won't enter the map. Once you appear on the map you are Immobilized until everyone has appeared; so there is no advantage those people with faster loading computers. |
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| 7) I've Always Thought War Was Better As A Spectator Sport: Say you don't want to fight but want to watch your buddies battle? You can log into any fight as an observer. This basically turns you into a roving camera. You are unable to interact with other players or affect them in any way. They do not see you nor know when you are watching them. You will be alerted when someone engages in combat and can use a special Teleport power to go instantly to the action. For the time you are in the arena map you are on Ignore with every other player except those who are also on the map in Observation Mode. No recon and report on enemy positions! |
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| 8) The More the Merrier, Or At Least the More Confusing! : Let's put those lazy Gladiators to work! Any Gladiator badge you possess you may take that NPC and put them somewhere on the map like a landmine. They don't move and they ignore all friendlies (ie- your team mates). They will however attack any enemy player who comes by. Only one placement per badge and this option CAN be disabled in the set up screen in case some of the players aren't badgers and would be too disadvantaged. All Gladiators fight at the combat level of their creator. |
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| 9) Dang It! I'm All Outta Quarters! : Life limits. What the heck is the sense of PvP if you can zip to the hospital and be back to the battle in a minute? One of the options on the Set Up screen will be a limit to the number of rezzes a player can have. OR a restriction that you can have unlimited Rezzes but only if provided via another player or a Wakie. That last one would make for great strategy as teams attempted to take out the enemy Rezz-Master first while desperately protecting their own. |
Now, I don't PvP, and I never will, but even so, this list is just confusing. A lot of the things are already in place, some things contradict each other and I'm still not sure whether you want to outright remove zone PvP or if you're just not taking it into account or what. Sure, some of the ideas are pretty good for the Arena, but then some of them just make me cringe, like opening up PvP-on-demand everywhere. And in the end, you miss what I feel is the biggest problem with PvP - the density of participants. No good PvP can ever be had with players as scattered as they are these days. The solution is not to spread them out even more or reduce it to just PvP-on-demand. The solution is to figure out some way to lump them all together in tighter quarters where it's not just an occasional gank. For all its faults, WoW does this pretty well.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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"Really, just see the /duel argument on this one."
I don't know Sam, we already have this feature and I am not seeing the influx of /duel spams that everyone was predicting.
If (Huge IF) we were ever to do open PvP, I would want it to be a form of flaaged PvP where a villain has to actually commit a crime to trigger PvP. In this case, a villain robs a bank and the first hero to come within a certain range can be notified that he can stop him or not. If the hero declines, it notifies the next nearest hero and if the villain is part of a team, the system notifies the nearest team. No gang-squads, no /duel spams, and the villain is innocent until proven guilty.
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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The ones (that I read) that aren't certainly show that the OP has no clue about the current PvP situation. |
Originally Posted by Reiraku
A few of these are already in PvP as it is.
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(... and, no, I didn't read the whole post .. by the time I reached the point of how it makes sense to allow level 50's to crush level 18's ... I pretty much gave up reading any more ...)
Anyone that says that the lack of balance between characters should be increased really doesn't get it. PvP is not far across the archetypes even before you add allowing level 50's all their powers (and bonuses for their level) to fight a level 18. The lack of balance that already exists in PvP is one of the major problems.
Adding PvP only IO's was one of the worst ideas ever. I can only see it as a way to placate the few players that actually do want to farm in PvP zones ....err... I mean PvP. It certainly does nothing to help the balance issues.
I mean seriously, as a player that has not played PvP you want to enter a PvP situation with your level 18 and get two-shotted by every level 50 that rolls by between your rez's?
I didn't think so, you just wanted to be the level 50 stomping on the level 18's.
Put the shoe on the other foot while thinking about all things PvP, and you'll come closer to what will make players want to PvP.
I seriously do not think that anyone wants to have no chance of defeating their opponent. Running into someone that I can not defeat in PvP does not make me want to PvP; it makes me want to avoid them. If the idea is to make PvP enjoyable for all archetypes and levels, all characters must have the ability to defeat their opponents; otherwise, for one player there is no risk and for the other player there is only a matter of running or holding off falling/dying as long as possible (which may also include running).
The archetypes and power sets are disbalanced at a core-level. This is obvious in PvE, and, in PvP, any difference becomes amplified.
Many people have played one incarnation or another of Streetfighter. The characters have different powers, but, in the end, they are fairly balanced.
You are never in a situation where you are picking a character that will never have any possible hope of defeating the opponent.
You must rely upon your skills in manipulating the character. You can not rely upon your character having a certain power-gamer build, archetype, power sets, and enhancements that you have spent time to amass.
To me one of the other main PvP issues is that the confrontations do not have a "comic book" feel to them. That is to say, they aren't happening in the kind of situations that one would expect to encounter superhero/supervillain combat. To me, the current non-arena PvP situations are very military game in nature and do not match up to the kinds of confrontations that happen in comic books.
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See: The Arena. |
Originally Posted by Steelclaw
1) (Yes, I know... a list... but NOT a joke list) Get Rid of The PVP Zones : All of them. Instead of entering a zone to PvP, those interested should get together and agree to meet in combat in an arena of their choice. They meet in Pocket D or the RWZ or wherever and decide to get it on. You ask where they'lll meet if they can't meet in the PvP Zones? Well, I can't tell you.... until you read #2.
2) It's a Big Playground Out There: Listen, we've got maps coming out of our collective I/O ports here. Why are we limited to PvP on just a few of them? If AE allows us to create missions on practically ANY of the maps why can't we PvP there as well? Think how fun it might be to duke it out in Meteor Damaged Atlas Park or go stealthy in the 5 layer cake blue cave of doom! You and your opponent can either agree to a battle zone or let the system choose one randomly. The system would also allow you to either start in random or pre-determined locations within that map. |
Arena and Zone are two totally different things. Zone PVP is - when it exists - much more of a free for all. You *don't* know if anyone's going to be in there, who they are, what they're doing, etc. That's part of the fun of it. Arena tends to be more organized. You set things up and go in - and, since you've already said you don't PVP, I've got to tell you, some maps are just plain horrible for PVP (some by travel power, some just overall - cave maps tend to be a reset, the monkey cage, instant reset.)
I *like* knowing that I can wander into a PVP zone and either be left alone or find myself in the middle of a free for all. "Get together and meet" means ... arena. No, thanks.
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| 3) Superman versus Batman Anyone? : From both a comic book and a role playing perspective it makes little to no sense that only heroes and villains can fight one another. Heroes should be able to fight heroes and it's only natural that evil villains would betray and attack one another. Drop the opposed alignment restriction. Oh, and make the PvP arenas co-op capable so villains can team with heroes if they want or vice-versa. For Role Players this would be an exceptional tool. |
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| 4) The Incredible Hulk Versus Bob Anyone?: It makes no sense to me that a 50th level hero with years of experience can enter a zone with an 18th level Villain who still has that new-car smell and suddenly they're both the same combat level. Yes, I know this is to "even the playing field" but COME ON! Instead of this mandatory level adjustment I would prefer to see a few more options. Maybe Player A gloated that his build was so awesome he could take on Player B with a five level disadvantage? Maybe two teams want to fight but one has 4 players and one has 8? Allow the characters to CHOOSE their combat level prior to beginning combat. Because, to me, one 50th level character standing down eight 30th levels sounds pretty fun. |
SK/Ex level on entering: 25
A level 15 is *already* at a disadvantage if they stick their noses in. Fewer powers, fewer slots, weaker enhancements (even with a boost.) A level 50? They aren't stuck with level 25 powers - thanks to SSKing? They've got level 30. I've said this before, but the most visibly obvious example of this is *masterminds.*
What do you get at level 26 that you don't have at 25 on a Mastermind? Your top-tier minion. Before SSKing, you didn't have it in Bloody Bay. Now? You do.
Siren's Call? Only thing you're missing now is your secondary's Tier9. Full pets for MMs (fully upgraded - not possible before,) controllers and doms with their pets, the works.
Warburg? Well, before, only RV let you play with your epic or PPP. Now? You've got at least the first one. Not as huge a power difference... except, of course, you can go *in* at 30. So, no-tier-9s vs full-set-and-epic.
This is one change I'd certainly like to see rolled back, purely in PVP zones, if the dev team is at all serious about their "leveling the playing field," even though it benefits several of my characters when I wander in (more armor and stealth for my En/En brute, for instance.) But I don't expect to see that happen. A wider gap is *not* going to help.
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| 5) I'd Like My Battle A La Mode: Once again I turn to AE for this idea. We can now set up destructible items, lead the captive out of the base and several other objectives in our AE missions. Why can't these be used in PvP? A few examples: Each team has a Mascot (hostage) that the other team must first locate, then lead back to their base (exit or starting point). The other team can defeat the hostage stealers to get them back or ignore them to go get THEIR hostage. Or one team has a destructible object they need to protect while the other team must destroy it before the time limit runs out. Many of the AE mission goals can be adapted to PvP situations. The Safeguard/Mayhem missions would be PERFECT for PvP. |
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| 6) If That's The Ace Of Spades On The Table, Then What's Up My Sleeve? : With all the customization I'm suggesting there needs to be a fail-safe so no one SAYS they're going to play their character at 20th level but logs in at 50th instead. When people enter their parameters they go to a screen that shows them what everyone one else involved has entered. If you don't agree to what's shown then discuss in chat what changes need to be made. If you don't click OK then you won't enter the map. Once you appear on the map you are Immobilized until everyone has appeared; so there is no advantage those people with faster loading computers. |
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| 7) I've Always Thought War Was Better As A Spectator Sport: Say you don't want to fight but want to watch your buddies battle? You can log into any fight as an observer. This basically turns you into a roving camera. You are unable to interact with other players or affect them in any way. They do not see you nor know when you are watching them. You will be alerted when someone engages in combat and can use a special Teleport power to go instantly to the action. For the time you are in the arena map you are on Ignore with every other player except those who are also on the map in Observation Mode. No recon and report on enemy positions! |
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| 8) The More the Merrier, Or At Least the More Confusing! : Let's put those lazy Gladiators to work! Any Gladiator badge you possess you may take that NPC and put them somewhere on the map like a landmine. They don't move and they ignore all friendlies (ie- your team mates). They will however attack any enemy player who comes by. Only one placement per badge and this option CAN be disabled in the set up screen in case some of the players aren't badgers and would be too disadvantaged. All Gladiators fight at the combat level of their creator. |
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| 9) Dang It! I'm All Outta Quarters! : Life limits. What the heck is the sense of PvP if you can zip to the hospital and be back to the battle in a minute? One of the options on the Set Up screen will be a limit to the number of rezzes a player can have. OR a restriction that you can have unlimited Rezzes but only if provided via another player or a Wakie. That last one would make for great strategy as teams attempted to take out the enemy Rezz-Master first while desperately protecting their own. |
I want to say some of these in #9 are already arena options. Have to look.
In any case... the biggest comment I can make is "Go look at what's there *now,* then come back to this." I'm sure you can find some PVPers willing to show you the options and whatnot in arena, explain them and the like. Then - stick your nose into the zones, and find out how things are different. They do cater to two different tastes when ti comes to PVP. And I'd personally hate to lose either one (see first suggestions.)
Edit: Re: Sam -
He's not talking about bringing PVP into the regular zones, just using those maps.
I actually like these suggestions, except for getting rid of PvP zones. I think that one's a bit annoying, especially with all those lovely badges and artwork. Revamp them into PvE or PvPvE zones? Then yes!
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To make them PvPvE zones they'd have to return PvP to its original state. Dealing with things like travel suppression, heal decay, and diminishing returns against NPC's that aren't subjected to the same rules is incredibly frustrating if you are used to how NPC's behave in PvE content.|
Originally Posted by ReclusesPhantom
I actually like these suggestions, except for getting rid of PvP zones. I think that one's a bit annoying, especially with all those lovely badges and artwork. Revamp them into PvE or PvPvE zones? Then yes!
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I'm all for a PvPvE revamp of zones, but I don't see it happening, and I really don't see people liking the current learning curve in PvP. I loved PvPvE in Aion, and I'm sure with some dev focus, I could like it here. But, the NPCs would have to be drastically reworked to even be viable in the current PvP setting.
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/this. |
Originally Posted by Tonality
I loved PvPvE in Aion, and I'm sure with some dev focus, I could like it here. But, the NPCs would have to be drastically reworked to even be viable in the current PvP setting.
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Actually, I'd have to say Aion is (likely) worlds easier to balance. Both sides have the exact same classes, after all. Each class has the same powers, with Stigmas being the only variation really available (gear excluded - yes, you can skip some skills, but generally at X level a given class will have Y skills available.) You can balance a Ranger vs a Spiritmaster (for instance) in a pretty straightforward way. (Of course, with semi-open-world in the Abyss and Rifts, they really need to stay on top of it.)
Here... you can't balance a Controller versus a Corruptor. Which Controller, what secondary, what slots, what travel power/pool powers, what enhancements? Then do the same vs the Corruptor. The powersets individually work much differently, and then you work on the combinations... oy.
I don't envy the devs job in trying to 'balance' all this in PVE, much *less* PVP. And that's not going into NPCs not following the same rules.
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Look, I don't want to get into this. Not yet again. Suffice it to say that there are more reasons than just "duel me" spam to levy against the idea, chief among which is I DO NOT WANT TO BE EXPOSED TO IT. I don't want potential adversaries running around, I don't want the potential to be exposed to a match, or even witness it. I know Arena invitations are currently possible in exactly this way, but I'd rather not bring any more attention to this. And even then, when matches do occur, they still take place where I can't see them.
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
"Really, just see the /duel argument on this one."
I don't know Sam, we already have this feature and I am not seeing the influx of /duel spams that everyone was predicting. If (Huge IF) we were ever to do open PvP, I would want it to be a form of flaaged PvP where a villain has to actually commit a crime to trigger PvP. In this case, a villain robs a bank and the first hero to come within a certain range can be notified that he can stop him or not. If the hero declines, it notifies the next nearest hero and if the villain is part of a team, the system notifies the nearest team. No gang-squads, no /duel spams, and the villain is innocent until proven guilty. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Uhhh... bill, SSK exemplaring doesn't apply to PVP zones, it is a hard exemplar, meaning that a level 25 MM will still ONLY have up to level 25 power.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Maybe. But you're not seeing it from both sides. Let's take Bloody Bay:
SK/Ex level on entering: 25 A level 15 is *already* at a disadvantage if they stick their noses in. Fewer powers, fewer slots, weaker enhancements (even with a boost.) A level 50? They aren't stuck with level 25 powers - thanks to SSKing? They've got level 30. I've said this before, but the most visibly obvious example of this is *masterminds.* What do you get at level 26 that you don't have at 25 on a Mastermind? Your top-tier minion. Before SSKing, you didn't have it in Bloody Bay. Now? You do. Siren's Call? Only thing you're missing now is your secondary's Tier9. Full pets for MMs (fully upgraded - not possible before,) controllers and doms with their pets, the works. Warburg? Well, before, only RV let you play with your epic or PPP. Now? You've got at least the first one. Not as huge a power difference... except, of course, you can go *in* at 30. So, no-tier-9s vs full-set-and-epic. This is one change I'd certainly like to see rolled back, purely in PVP zones, if the dev team is at all serious about their "leveling the playing field," even though it benefits several of my characters when I wander in (more armor and stealth for my En/En brute, for instance.) But I don't expect to see that happen. A wider gap is *not* going to help. |
I am certain of this since my nukes runs remind me I cannot use my bread and butter butt kickery on my SR scrapper that uses conserve power.
As a note to Steel Claw, like one person said, the fact that you have never bothered with PVP really hurts your case, even in arena fights apparently.
The major problem with PVP with the power gap between toons with ranged attacks and those that don't, travel suppression does not help at all, especially if the one with ranged attacks invested in hover.
I know this because I've PVPed, none of it was really a good experience, but I still have that to make an argument off of.
And if you get rid of PVP zones you lose a lot of temp powers other players love and sometimes need for TFs and so forth if they're toons and team are not optimized in anyway.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Wrong
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Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Uhhh... bill, SSK exemplaring doesn't apply to PVP zones, it is a hard exemplar, meaning that a level 25 MM will still ONLY have up to level 25 power.
I am certain of this since my nukes runs remind me I cannot use my bread and butter butt kickery on my SR scrapper that uses conserve power. |
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You're right, I just remembered this when I realized I got focused accuracy first (a power I use so little I forget it's there) and conserve power putting it at level 44
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
Wrong
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Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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There is a lot of things the devs could take notes of from Aion. For example, when mezzed, players in Aion get resistance bonuses (you can take them out of the fight, but they're harder to kill). Technically, their 'holds' are similar to our sleeps. Mez durations are limited (like they are now here), but also have a longer recharge timer (which we don't have). A similar approach would bring a level of balance to PvP. Mezzing can be balanced without suppression, but the end result is a build so foreign to the normal gameplay of CoH, it will be hard for new players to learn.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
/this.
Actually, I'd have to say Aion is (likely) worlds easier to balance. Both sides have the exact same classes, after all. Each class has the same powers, with Stigmas being the only variation really available (gear excluded - yes, you can skip some skills, but generally at X level a given class will have Y skills available.) You can balance a Ranger vs a Spiritmaster (for instance) in a pretty straightforward way. (Of course, with semi-open-world in the Abyss and Rifts, they really need to stay on top of it.) Here... you can't balance a Controller versus a Corruptor. Which Controller, what secondary, what slots, what travel power/pool powers, what enhancements? Then do the same vs the Corruptor. The powersets individually work much differently, and then you work on the combinations... oy. I don't envy the devs job in trying to 'balance' all this in PVE, much *less* PVP. And that's not going into NPCs not following the same rules. |
I definitely agree. It's a lot harder to balance in CoH than Aion. But there are a ton of issues, and it's even further complicated by the enhancement system. Aion doesn't have complex builds. I can't effectively slot for 'recharge' on my attacks. It is a lot more rigid.
I'm hoping that with some of these devs playing Aion right now they're also taking notes about what does and doesn't work in PvP - and especially what makes PvP fun. It's not dangling some nice armor or weapon in front of me that makes me want to PvP - it's the rush of seeing just how many people I can take down before I'm taken out, only to return with a vengeance.
But, I haven't spent a lot of time in CoH PvP, so I'm not an expert. I'll entertain the thought of PvP and think about fun builds in PvP. But in reality, I'm more or less waiting for something to happen.
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Incorrect. If you need a larger version of this shot, it's here, but you should be able to pick out both the evil scientist, BB Arachnos liason, level 25 exemp (with the lack of a team) and bloody bay map... and my 50 MM's bruiser in this.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Uhhh... bill, SSK exemplaring doesn't apply to PVP zones, it is a hard exemplar, meaning that a level 25 MM will still ONLY have up to level 25 power.
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Wouldn't keep saying it if I hadn't verified it.
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Noone is trying to convince you to come aroun to PvP, but many would like to fight more "Specialized" characters in a more dynamic way. In my suggestion, heroes and villains won't cross each others path unless there is a specific reason for them to.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Look, I don't want to get into this. Not yet again. Suffice it to say that there are more reasons than just "duel me" spam to levy against the idea, chief among which is I DO NOT WANT TO BE EXPOSED TO IT. I don't want potential adversaries running around, I don't want the potential to be exposed to a match, or even witness it. I know Arena invitations are currently possible in exactly this way, but I'd rather not bring any more attention to this. And even then, when matches do occur, they still take place where I can't see them.
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"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
First, I wish to start by saying that this IS a Steelclaw post but it IS NOT a parody, song, joke list, or any other assorted silliness some of you may have come to expect from me.
Now that around 50% of you have rolled your eyes in disgust and backed out of the thread, I shall continue.
Let me preface the serious part of this post by saying that I DON'T PvP. So I am coming at this issue from about as fresh a perspective as you can get. I have no real bones to gnaw on since I haven't been to the butcher's shop yet. This post is NOT a "What's wrong with PvP" post. It is a "What it would take to get me to PvP" post.
That being said:
1) (Yes, I know... a list... but NOT a joke list) Get Rid of The PVP Zones : All of them. Instead of entering a zone to PvP, those interested should get together and agree to meet in combat in an arena of their choice. They meet in Pocket D or the RWZ or wherever and decide to get it on. You ask where they'lll meet if they can't meet in the PvP Zones? Well, I can't tell you.... until you read #2.
2) It's a Big Playground Out There: Listen, we've got maps coming out of our collective I/O ports here. Why are we limited to PvP on just a few of them? If AE allows us to create missions on practically ANY of the maps why can't we PvP there as well? Think how fun it might be to duke it out in Meteor Damaged Atlas Park or go stealthy in the 5 layer cake blue cave of doom! You and your opponent can either agree to a battle zone or let the system choose one randomly. The system would also allow you to either start in random or pre-determined locations within that map.
3) Superman versus Batman Anyone? : From both a comic book and a role playing perspective it makes little to no sense that only heroes and villains can fight one another. Heroes should be able to fight heroes and it's only natural that evil villains would betray and attack one another. Drop the opposed alignment restriction. Oh, and make the PvP arenas co-op capable so villains can team with heroes if they want or vice-versa. For Role Players this would be an exceptional tool.
4) The Incredible Hulk Versus Bob Anyone?: It makes no sense to me that a 50th level hero with years of experience can enter a zone with an 18th level Villain who still has that new-car smell and suddenly they're both the same combat level. Yes, I know this is to "even the playing field" but COME ON! Instead of this mandatory level adjustment I would prefer to see a few more options. Maybe Player A gloated that his build was so awesome he could take on Player B with a five level disadvantage? Maybe two teams want to fight but one has 4 players and one has 8? Allow the characters to CHOOSE their combat level prior to beginning combat. Because, to me, one 50th level character standing down eight 30th levels sounds pretty fun.
5) I'd Like My Battle A La Mode: Once again I turn to AE for this idea. We can now set up destructible items, lead the captive out of the base and several other objectives in our AE missions. Why can't these be used in PvP? A few examples: Each team has a Mascot (hostage) that the other team must first locate, then lead back to their base (exit or starting point). The other team can defeat the hostage stealers to get them back or ignore them to go get THEIR hostage. Or one team has a destructible object they need to protect while the other team must destroy it before the time limit runs out. Many of the AE mission goals can be adapted to PvP situations. The Safeguard/Mayhem missions would be PERFECT for PvP.
6) If That's The Ace Of Spades On The Table, Then What's Up My Sleeve? : With all the customization I'm suggesting there needs to be a fail-safe so no one SAYS they're going to play their character at 20th level but logs in at 50th instead. When people enter their parameters they go to a screen that shows them what everyone one else involved has entered. If you don't agree to what's shown then discuss in chat what changes need to be made. If you don't click OK then you won't enter the map. Once you appear on the map you are Immobilized until everyone has appeared; so there is no advantage those people with faster loading computers.
7) I've Always Thought War Was Better As A Spectator Sport: Say you don't want to fight but want to watch your buddies battle? You can log into any fight as an observer. This basically turns you into a roving camera. You are unable to interact with other players or affect them in any way. They do not see you nor know when you are watching them. You will be alerted when someone engages in combat and can use a special Teleport power to go instantly to the action. For the time you are in the arena map you are on Ignore with every other player except those who are also on the map in Observation Mode. No recon and report on enemy positions!
8) The More the Merrier, Or At Least the More Confusing! : Let's put those lazy Gladiators to work! Any Gladiator badge you possess you may take that NPC and put them somewhere on the map like a landmine. They don't move and they ignore all friendlies (ie- your team mates). They will however attack any enemy player who comes by. Only one placement per badge and this option CAN be disabled in the set up screen in case some of the players aren't badgers and would be too disadvantaged. All Gladiators fight at the combat level of their creator.
9) Dang It! I'm All Outta Quarters! : Life limits. What the heck is the sense of PvP if you can zip to the hospital and be back to the battle in a minute? One of the options on the Set Up screen will be a limit to the number of rezzes a player can have. OR a restriction that you can have unlimited Rezzes but only if provided via another player or a Wakie. That last one would make for great strategy as teams attempted to take out the enemy Rezz-Master first while desperately protecting their own.
Anyway, just a few thoughts that were bumping around in my head. Figured I would get them out of there before the dust bunnies started grazing on them. Any feedback is appreciated.
My mind wanders so often you've probably seen its picture on milk cartons. - Me... the first person version of the third person Steelclaw