isn't it annoying how no one reply's to ice builds? I've tried both in controllers and blasters asking people to post builds but no one ever replies!
My ice/cold controller hit 21 tonight, so I probably can't give you the whole run of advice. I have played the ice control set most of the way up on my ice/rad controller...
I don't see the point of glacier. I'm not saying it would never come in handy. You may never be in a situation where it's the one power you need, though.
While there really isn't anything wrong with Shiver (it does what it says it does, and it does it well), it's totally superfluous here.
Your ability to completely manage a large group of enemies and turn them all into blind turtles, while simultaneously providing real mitigation directly to your teammates, is going to be very strong. But you can do most of that without coming within 20 feet of the enemy. This is important, because you're going to be pretty much a turtle yourself when it comes to killing speed. You're going to make teams really awesome, and that's probably going to be where you shine until you get Jackie. After that, who knows.
With that in mind, I'd rethink the no-damage cold cone, and the PBAoE hold. You can do better for mitigation than that dinky hold glacier gives, and you've already got enough slows outside of some enemies with serious slow resistance.
As for set bonuses? I imagine someone out there can get you a softcapped god-mode controller who farms AVs, but that's not me. I'd probably tell you to focus on procs and recharge reduction though. That seems sensible.
It looks solid to me, don't got much exercise with cold dom, so can't help much.
Just some general advice from me.
Throw out your Slow enhancements. Why? They only affect run speed, fly speed, etc. The portion of the power that really matters, -recharge, is unenhanceable. Between Snow Storm and Shiver you'll have most enemies bottomed out so they're not going anywhere. Snow Storm will suffice with two end. while I would maximize the recharge, acc, and end. reduction of Shiver. I find frankenslotting with 3 acc/end and 2 recharge IO's to be pretty good. You can also drop the two slow enhancements from Snow Storm.
You may want to skip Primal Forces as your Epic. It does little for Ice Control due to the fact that -recharge can't be boosted and it's lackluster on /cold. Both of your ally shields and Artic Fog will ignore Powerboost due to their resistance component. It also boost the endurance drain of heat loss, but not the recovery that it grants. You may want to lean towards an epic that offers some more damage such as fire, though ice can fit the bill if you want to stick to your concept. (If you consider this route, pick up Frostbite so you have a reliable source of containment.) Stone also has the appeal of a self-heal since you don't have one in your secondary.
Finally, it seems as if you are shooting for some defense via sets. That in itself isn't a bad idea, but there are some questionable power selections made in reaching that. For example, you have both Superspeed and Fly for what appears to be an extra set of BotZ. However, you could have just as easily slotted a second set in Recall Friend. Even with that you've only reached a mid-to-low level of defense. Overall, you lose out on more efficient power slotting for subpar bonuses. I recommend either focusing on individual power efficiancy or rebuilding with a stronger focus on your bonuses.
I kinda gave up on this since there were no replies. I'm glad I checked back. He was sitting in his 40's in Freedom, and I decided to team and level him and move him to the server I play on most while it is free. I also discovered my other heroes had 2 Coersive Persuasions on Freedom, and I had 3 amongst my characters on Victory, so Artic Air came under consideration.
A Blaster asked me to help her take out Ghost Widow on some mission (she was only an EB here) And with Artic Fog, Super Speed and a stealth proc in sprint I was sitting at 100' Stealth. I summoned Jack near her as a destraction/Sacrifice and did Sleet, Snow Storm, Ice Slick, Infridgidate, Benumb & Shiver before Jack died while the blaster was blasting. I power boosted and got her held with Block of Ice & Glacier stacked for a few seconds, but it helped. A second sleet and she was attacking in slow motion, and she was defeated with only Jack dying.
I noticed that Ice Slick was no longer useful like it was at low levels, not affecting most bosses and tanks, so I repecced that to Artic Air. And here is the current build:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Ice Controller: Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice
- (A) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold: Level 50
- (3) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50
- (3) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (25) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold: Level 50
- (25) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50
- (34) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50
- (A) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Defense Debuff: Level 50
- (5) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (5) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (42) Analyze Weakness - Defense Debuff: Level 50
- (42) Analyze Weakness - Defense Debuff/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (42) Analyze Weakness - Chance for +ToHit: Level 50
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (13) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
- (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (11) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (11) Slow IO: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (7) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (7) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Slow: Level 50
- (9) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50
- (9) Tempered Readiness - Range/Slow: Level 50
- (43) Tempered Readiness - Damage/Slow: Level 50
- (43) Tempered Readiness - Endurance/Recharge/Slow: Level 50
- (45) Tempered Readiness - Accuracy/Damage/Slow: Level 50
- (A) Jumping IO: Level 50
- (A) Coercive Persuasion - Contagious Confusion: Level 50
- (13) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Recharge: Level 50
- (37) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Confused/Recharge: Level 50
- (46) Coercive Persuasion - Confused/Endurance: Level 50
- (46) Coercive Persuasion - Confused: Level 50
- (50) Coercive Persuasion - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range: Level 50
- (15) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance: Level 50
- (15) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
- (19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
- (A) Healing IO: Level 50
- (19) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40
- (50) Miracle - Heal: Level 40
- (A) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
- (21) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
- (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 30
- (23) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (23) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold: Level 50
- (27) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (27) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold: Level 50
- (31) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold: Level 50
- (31) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50
- (31) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (29) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (29) Accuracy IO: Level 50
- (40) Accuracy IO: Level 50
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
- (A) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
- (33) Blood Mandate - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (33) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50
- (33) Blood Mandate - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (34) Blood Mandate - Accuracy: Level 50
- (34) Blood Mandate - Damage: Level 50
- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (36) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff/Recharge: Level 50
- (36) Undermined Defenses - Defense Debuff/Recharge: Level 50
- (36) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20
- (37) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (37) Slow IO: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (39) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
- (40) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
- (40) Accuracy IO: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (43) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (46) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance: Level 40
- (45) Reactive Armor - Resistance: Level 40
- (45) Reactive Armor - Endurance: Level 40
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (48) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (48) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range: Level 50
- (50) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance: Level 50
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 13% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 13% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 13% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 13% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 13% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 13% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 13% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 13% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 7.81% Defense(Fire)
- 7.81% Defense(Cold)
- 13.4% Defense(Energy)
- 13.4% Defense(Negative)
- 25% Defense(Ranged)
- 12.8% Defense(AoE)
- 0.9% Max End
- 1.5% Enhancement(RunSpeed)
- 1.5% Enhancement(JumpSpeed)
- 1.5% Enhancement(JumpHeight)
- 1.5% Enhancement(FlySpeed)
- 43.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 4% Enhancement(Confused)
- 5% Enhancement(Held)
- 11% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 22.9 HP (2.25%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Held) 4.4%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
- MezResist(Stun) 3.85%
- 9.5% (0.16 End/sec) Recovery
- 40% (1.7 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1.58% Resistance(Smashing)
- 1.58% Resistance(Lethal)
- 5% RunSpeed
I find Powerboost/Glacier/Block of Ice useful when soloing if they hit before the PToD appear on the AV. And it gives me a chance to breathe and let Jack kill off a few. If they hit, I have a chance to kill the AV, if they both miss, the AV kills me. (I'm doing Maria Jenkins Arc trying to get Portal Jocky)
Shiver is -81% to recharge. Nothing increases -recharge in the powers, but they stack, and shiver is a big one. I am not sure if it's the right power to remove.
It seems I have to run into the fray a lot to get Heat Loss to recharge my End, since he is a big end hog.
The slow set in Shiver was really to get me both recharge bonus and ranged defense. But you are right, my ranged defense is pitiful. I can get good ranged defense on Defenders, but not on my Controllers for some reason. It seems the basic Slow IOs are useless except to slow the minions at the edge of my Snow Storm. I'm not sure what to replace them with. Maybe I could move one to Recall Friend to get another BotZ.
Superspeed was to make me invisible and Flying is just QoL. It's the first to go when I exemp. The BotZ were an after thought when I thought I would try for Ranged Defense. Maybe I can only get Either Recharge or Ranged Defense, but recharge sure seems easier to achieve.
Primal forces was just to help my holds. Maybe it's a waste to get it for just 2 powers, But it is what's saving my butt if I can hold the boss long enough to slow him to a stand still. Actually, I use Conserve power a lot, triggering once my end gets to 1/2 until I can run in and get chummy with some baddie and fire off Heat Loss.
Would one of the other Epics help me get my Ranged Defense to an acceptable level? If I forget about that, what would have to change other than Shiver? And what do you use for the third Acc/End for shiver? Since I already have BotZ in place, does it really make sense to move them out even if I no longer are trying for their bonuses?
Boy, I don't know what I did. I tried changing the look to Fruit Salad and the build went all over the place. Sorry about that.
On Shiver I take the Acc/End from Pacing of the Turtle, Impede Swiftness, and Tempered Readiness. That puts you at about 74% accuracy and end. reduction. Heck, you could even throw Curtailed Speed in and take it up to 92%.
IMO, 25% defense falls into the just noticeable range. If you have another /cold or a bubbler on the team it will put you in a comfortable place. Note that you cold drop the slot from fly and place it in you epic armor where you can use Steadfast Protection: resistance/+3%def. It's slightly less defense, but to all positions and types as opposed to gaining only a ranged defense bonus.
Shiver is up faster now with frankenslotting, and I totally forgot about Steadfast Defense! Thank you so much for your help! Here is my final build (I hope). Glacier seems to last a lot less without Power boost. The strange thing is, when hovering it lists my defense at 35.55, which isn't reflected in Mid's.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Bi Polar Bear: Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- Lock-%Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/Hold:50(3), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(3), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(25), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(25), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(34)
Level 1: Infrigidate -- AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb:50(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg:50(5), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx:50(5), AnWeak-DefDeb:50(42), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:50(42), AnWeak-%ToHit:50(42)
Level 2: Ice Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(13), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(17)
Level 4: Snow Storm -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(11)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(7), RechRdx-I:50(7)
Level 8: Shiver -- P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx:50(A), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx:50(9), ImpSwft-Acc/EndRdx:30(9), RechRdx-I:50(11), RechRdx-I:50(43), ImpSwft-Dam%:30(43)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 12: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf%:50(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg:50(13), CoPers-Acc/Rchg:50(15), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(37), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx:50(46), CoPers-Conf:50(46)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(15)
Level 16: Glacial Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(17), LkGmblr-Def:50(19)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(19), Mrcl-Heal:40(37)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(21), P'Shift-End%:50(21)
Level 22: Arctic Fog -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:30(A), EndRdx-I:50(23), EndRdx-I:50(23)
Level 24: Recall Friend -- Zephyr-ResKB:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(45)
Level 26: Glacier -- Lock-Acc/Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(27), Lock-%Hold:50(27), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(31), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(31), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(31)
Level 28: Benumb -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(29), Acc-I:50(29), Acc-I:50(40)
Level 30: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(46)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:50(33), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), BldM'dt-Acc:50(34), BldM'dt-Dmg:50(34)
Level 35: Sleet -- HO:Membr(A), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg:50(36), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg:50(36), Achilles-ResDeb%:20(36), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg:50(37)
Level 38: Heat Loss -- Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(39), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(39), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(39), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(40), RechRdx-I:50(40)
Level 41: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(45), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(45)
Level 47: Ice Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(50), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 49: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 15.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 15.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 15.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 15.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 15.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 15.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 15.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 15.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Smashing)
- 3% Defense(Lethal)
- 9.25% Defense(Fire)
- 9.25% Defense(Cold)
- 19.6% Defense(Energy)
- 19.6% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Melee)
- 32.4% Defense(Ranged)
- 12.7% Defense(AoE)
- 47.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 4% Enhancement(Confused)
- 5% Enhancement(Held)
- 18% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 9% FlySpeed
- 34.3 HP (3.38%) HitPoints
- 9% JumpHeight
- 9% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -4)
- Knockup (Mag -4)
- MezResist(Held) 4.4%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
- MezResist(Stun) 3.85%
- 11.5% (0.19 End/sec) Recovery
- 50% (2.12 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1.58% Resistance(Smashing)
- 1.58% Resistance(Lethal)
- 9% RunSpeed
So it seems like I do more damage, I get hit less, my recharge is better, my end consumption is worse, I have a harder time soloing AVs and I do great on teams.
I just couldn't get myself to take Frostbite. I hate Immobs and the damage is pitiful. And since I only hit one at a time (I could add to ranged defense) I can ice block them for containment.
Is this the best I can do or are there other mistakes I made? I was doing Maria Jenkin's arc on a team, and while Glacier and confuse are a little worse, the slows seem to be up or working more, where we get a lot of mobs just standing there.
I still think this build could use some work. Here are some specific comments:
- Consider nixing some of the travel powers, unless you are taking them for concept reasons. Personally I would drop both Hover and Fly. Super Speed is useful for combining with Arctic Fog for PvE invisibility. Recall Friend is helpful for stealthing the team. Fly is useful for... looking like you are flying without a jet pack.
- Do NOT drop Ice Slick. Take it at as soon it is available. This is one of your bread and butter controls and you will be seriously gimped without it. I see someone recommended dropping it but IMO that would be a major mistake, on the order of a Force Field Defender skipping one of the ally shields.
- Shiver or Snow Storm, but not both. I personally prefer Shiver even though it requires more slotting and a to-hit check, because Snow Storm saps too much endurance and the fact that if you get mezzed, it detogs.
- Swap Arctic Air and Hasten. At the level you are taking Hasten right now you don't actually have any powers that need Hastening.
- Read the boards for how to slot Arctic Air. It needs to be frankenslotted for Confuse duration, endurance, the Contagious Confusion proc.
Hope that helps.
Quote:
???| I noticed that Ice Slick was no longer useful like it was at low levels, not affecting most bosses and tanks, so I repecced that to Artic Air. |
Ice Slick is useful 12-50 and does work on most bosses. There's a couple of enemy groups where it's not so great but thats why you've got other powers. The majority of the time, it's functional.
Ice Slick + Arctic Air = awesomeness. Don't drop one for the other. Take em both!
It may be that he is letting foes aggro on him, or that foes are within line of sight, or something like that.
OP: It is irritating, but foes will get pot shots on you before they start being subjected to the Ice Slick. And yeah, sometimes foes will just run right off of it on occasion. It isn't a total lockdown like a Stun, but it lasts a long time and has other advantages. For example, it works on things that Stuns wont affect.
I'd recommend the OP try casting Ice Slick while out of sight or while something else takes the alpha, so that you get less/none of the pot shots the bad guys take before they fall. Also, you'll just have to accept that a bunch of the foes will still get ranged shots off on you as they pop around, but its a lot less than they would if they weren't flopping. The overall damage mitigation is outstanding.
Lewis
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"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
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I just assumed Ice Slick wasn't working because someone on the team was using cages. Enemy groups that resist Ice Slick completely are pretty rare. Sometimes there are 1 or 2 enemy types within a group that resist it though.
I will admit Ice Slick mostly sucks when you're teamed with a Fire or Plant Controller. Or even Earth Controllers, who seem willfully ignorant that spamming Stone Cages on top of a knockdown zone means enemies will stand up and shoot at you. It's one thing when enemies aren't able to hurt you, and something else entirely when the group is about to wipe and someone doesn't just throw out an AoE cage power, but constantly refreshes it in a bid to ensure nothing ever falls down.
The OP did mention he was doing the Maria Jenkin's arc, which IIRC has Anti-matter's kb resistant robots. That could explain the decrease in performance he's seeing.
Anyway, as others said Ice Slick is one of the lynchpins of Ice Control. Also, just to clarify a little something for the OP. Well slotted, your single target hold and AoE hold will stack through the majority of the PToD down time. After the PToD goes back up any holds be ineffective unless you're over the 50 points of protection offered by the PToD. Powerboost can help hold an AV through PToD if you have a build that can stack holds quickly, but under normal circumstances a single hold and an AoE hold will suffice to hold an AV during their suseptible period without Powerboost.
I mostly solo. And Ice Slick often got me killed even while stealthed before things started flopping like fish. I have been on teams where they immob the people on the ice slick and they target me instead of the idiot who stablized them! Which added to my hatred of Immob. The robots ignored my ice slick, as did all the AVs I encountered before I respecced to this build, so I assumed it was not as usefull as it was in low levels. I believe I put Hasten where it is when respeccing to prevent me from being forced to take a power I didn't want. I could swap it with Fitness, but I try to avoid exemping down to level 6, so I am not sure if it is a difference I will notice. I still want Superspeed at 14, so it has to be before then.
My character is level 50 (I start worrying about IO sets around level 45). And the last build has the actual IOs I have in him. He wasn't cheap and I bankrupted many of my characters on 2 accounts and 2 servers. So Respeccing yet again (I have one left in Vets) I need to place all of my IO's but the 10 I can hold.
The Problem as I see it is if I drop fly (which is my favorite travel power, point, (R)un and get a drink from the fridge and return before I get there safely) and Hover, my ranged defense drops 6.31 points making it 29.24instead of 35.55, which is a noticable difference. And my global recharge drops 7.5. Ice slick can't hold any sets, so that won't help me bring it back up. But I have one power to pick now. I could put Hover back in and then I am only down 3.13 ranged defense if I only put 2 recharge slots in Ice Slick. If I don't retake hover (and I do fire from above now with Ice blast and the ranged attacks that don't require me to be on the ground) what do you suggest I do take? The stats are exactly the same as combat jumping. So How should I slot Ice slick & what do I pick for the other (wasted?) power to replace the fly set?
Shiver & Snowstorm got Neuron down to normal speed. He was quite easy to defeat at this speed. Bobcat was harder until I filled up with yellows. Shiver and Snowstorm do stack.
Artic Air with a full set of purples has 102% confuse, 90% recharge and 33% end. Well, yeah, that's high, but I get 5% ranged defense, 10% global recharge, 4% recovery, 4% damage buff and another 4% confuse time at any level. I don't think I want to give that up for frankenslotting. And Contageous Confusion proc IS part of this purple set. True, I only had to buy one recipe for the full set, but even inventing purples is not cheap. Besides, it's my only purple set.
Ketch: Now I'm confused. Are you saying that Power boost is good, and I should switch back to that from the Epic Ice I switched to, or are you saying it's unnecessary? How would you fit in Ice Slick?
And thank all of you for your suggestions! 
Thanks for the new info and the thank you. Assorted replies:
- IMO I think you are still putting too much emphasis on set bonuses and neglecting your actual powers. Ice Slick, IMO, is better than any set bonus you are going to get. It protects the entire team, where a defense bonus only protects you. This tradeoff might be somewhat acceptable on another archetype, but on one specifically tasked with adding safety to the team it's a major detriment.
- It's true that Shiver and Snowstorm stack on AVs. I didn't think of this because I don't solo AVs, and looking at your build I assume you don't either. If you are doing it on teams, cases where you need to slow the AV are fewer, because the tank keeps them more or less in position. The ones that run around can sometimes be immobed. Are there a whole lot of AVs that can't be immobilized? FYI Ice Slick, the power you skipped, has a bigger -Speed component than either of these two powers (but no -Recharge). I would still heavily consider skipping one or power or the other.
- Arctic Air loaded with the full purple set is pretty extreme. The extra defense and recharge you gain has to be balanced against the amount of endurance recovery and damage output you lose, and the Confusion duration is the same for either. You might be able to sneak by the endurance recovery issue because of Heat Loss, but it will hurt when that's down.
- Power Boost has no effect on Ice Slick. The power it rocks is Benumb. Personally I think the Ice APP is better for Ice/Cold than Primal because knockback can throw things away from your slicks and auras. The Mind APP is also a favorite for any Ice/ character, for the anti-mezz power that lets you abuse Arctic Air more freely.
- You can still fly around using a jet pack. Since you've said you'll be going afk anyway, how fast you get there won't matter.
OK if you tend to solo, you would do much better going with fire or cold for your app. Even with veteran attacks, your damage output with your build is REALLY REALLY low.
Ice Slick, used well is your best control. Period. The thing is you want to cast it from cover so that no one gets a chance to shoot at you before they start flopping around. You can cast it around corners, from behind pillars, etc, so it should be pretty rare that the bad guys get an alpha off on you. If you had more damage, then a lot of the mobs wouldn't get many other attacks either. Odds are if you are on a team where someone is laying down cages over your slick, there is enough control going on that no one is getting hit anyway. It's still one of the best alpha negators in the game when cast from cover. After that, caging over it has its own appeal if you take one of the APP aoe attacks.
I would get rid of superspeed or fly, and put Ice Slick back in. Then I would look at the Fire APP and get Fireball, Firebolt, and Fireshield. Or you can go cold and get Icebolt, Frost Breath, Hibernate and Ice Storm. I would also ditch either Arctic Air, or Shiver, and pick up Chillblaine.
Your control wouldn't suffer at all, and your ability to mitigate damage by defeating bad guys before they can defeat you goes way up. Also, snowstorm is going to be pretty optional with all the other cold powers you'll be hitting stuff with, and it's a huge agro magnet, so I would keep it in, but wouldn't use it on anything but nemesis, or other mobs that ignore knockdown.
Just from thoughts from someone who plays Ice a lot and loves it.
Quote:
| I would also ditch either Arctic Air... |
Quote:
| ...Your control wouldn't suffer at all, and your ability to mitigate damage by defeating bad guys before they can defeat you goes way up. |
I know this is a longstanding debate with many different sides, but it's my position that Arctic Air is as or more crucial than Ice Slick. Both of them together is even better. There is that whole "but I'm a ranged character!" debate that can go here, but my reply to that is "...and also bad at protecting your team," for reasons I would rehash if my lunchbreak weren't over.
But everyone has their own opinion on the Arctic Air issue, so whatever goes.
My first thought is: If you mostly solo, then why have Recall Friend? You could add in several powers, but Combat Jumping will give you a little more defense with a lot of good slotting options.
Next: If you mostly solo, where do you get your damage? Your build has a severe lack of damage -- only Jack Frost and Ice Blast are slotted for damage. My Ice/Storm is built to be able to solo, so he has Air Sup, Chilblain slotted for damage, Block of Ice slotted for damage, Jack, Tornado (with Frostbite to keep the foes from being thrown all over the place), Lightning Storm, Ice Blast, Frost Breath and Ice Storm. And I consider him to be slow for solo. Your build needs more damage if you expect to solo at a decent rate.
Personally, I think three Slow powers is excessive. The Run Speed cap is 90%, and the -Recharge cap is 75% -- two of the powers easily go way over the cap. I have Arctic Air and Snow Storm on my Ice/Storm, but I skipped Shiver. You could skip one of your slows to make room for Ice Slick. If you skip Shiver, you can make up the small amount of defense from the set with slotting in Combat Jumping. Or skip Snow Storm with no slotting issues.
I consider Ice Slick to be a key power. Yes, the baddies will sometimes take a pot shot at you, but it mitigates a lot of damage. Besides, if you have good defense, most of those shots won't hit. Even better, you can cast the Slick from around a corner to prevent any return fire. Once they are caught in the slip-n-fall, then it is easy to run in and give AA time to hit. True, it is not effective against a few foes, but you can deal with them other ways like your slows. But the Slick is very effective against many of the upper level foes you run into, such as Malta, Carnies, Rikti and many of the Preatorians.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
@ Oedipus Tex
I'm pretty firmly on the other side of the debate, so I think Arctic Air is a style thing. People with different play styles make different uses of their powers. In your hands Arctic Air is a must have power, in mine it's an agro-drawing endurance sink that forces me into a play style I don't enjoy if I am to make use of it. Thus the recommendation to drop one or the other.
When I was running Arctic Air on my Ice/Storm, I died MUCH more often, and didn't defeat the mobs any faster. Thus I don't like it much. I have zero problem keeping my teams alive without it either, so different strokes for different folks.
Quote:
I admit that I'm a fan of Arctic Air -- and you really can't understand how awesome it is until you have it well slotted for EndRdx and Confuse. But it becomes far, far more awesome when you get that Contagious Confusion proc in it. Add a damage proc, and it all adds up.|
Originally Posted by Sweetmeat
@ Oedipus Tex
I'm pretty firmly on the other side of the debate, so I think Arctic Air is a style thing. People with different play styles make different uses of their powers. In your hands Arctic Air is a must have power, in mine it's an agro-drawing endurance sink that forces me into a play style I don't enjoy if I am to make use of it. Thus the recommendation to drop one or the other. When I was running Arctic Air on my Ice/Storm, I died MUCH more often, and didn't defeat the mobs any faster. Thus I don't like it much. I have zero problem keeping my teams alive without it either, so different strokes for different folks. |
Part of the problem used to be that we couldn't tell when AA was doing its thing, since the confusion did not show up as the little purple bubbles until very recently. Now we can see some of what it is doing, but it still doesn't show the effect of the Slow+Afraid from this power; these mitigate a lot of damage.
Some people, however, just don't want to be in melee. I play most of my controllers always at range, but my Ice/Storm was built to be in melee.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
My apologies for that. I'm not always very clear with what I want to say. I desperately need an editor.|
Originally Posted by BurningBear
Ketch: Now I'm confused. Are you saying that Power boost is good, and I should switch back to that from the Epic Ice I switched to, or are you saying it's unnecessary? |
What I intended to say was that Block of Ice and Glacier are enough to hold an AV through PToD's down period and that is generally the best most controllers can manage. While powerboost is a nice power it does little for your AV holding ability. Other builds can benefit from it quite a bit though.
As others have said, two slow powers will put you at the cap most of the time. I like using Shiver and AA over Snow Storm because of how quickly toggles can drop due to mezzes or someone simply killing your anchor. Skipping it would only open up room for one of the immobilizes, however. If you skip Shiver you can free up space to take Ice Slick.
Artic Air gives me a lot of damage when I solo, because I make new friends. And with Superspeed & Artic Fog, I can wander in and position myself before I turn it on and summon Jack.
I also have to get into the center of things for Glacier and Heat loss. And Artic Air saves my butt most often. Seriously, the only thing that kills me are EBs and higher or if I get held without a BF. Artic Air does not seem to affect AVs so I try to keep at ranged for them except to dart in with Heat Loss or Glacier and dart out.
True, I don't have a lot of Damage other than Vet attacks, Jack and Ice blast, But I've survived 12 lt (orange) & minions(yellow) ganging up on me and Jack when soloing. The people around me run off attacking each other and the unconfused stand around firing a shot now and then without enthusiasm due to the -recharge. And with large groups I have had to shoot shiver in one direction and anchor Snow Storm in the opposite side of me and it has helped. So far soloing, I have 9 of the 13 Preaortian Villains for Portal Jocky I have soloed. Orange or red, nothing crazy like purple. I think I like Shiver better than Snow Storm if I have to be rid of one. The proc ocasionally does more than 70 damage, which is more than twice my block of ice.
So what is good slotting for Ice Slick? It doesn't take sets and only takes End, Recharge and Range. The End is 10, 2 IO Recharges take it to 40 seconds, so that's about all it needs, right? Crap, I see what you are saying, I took Snow Storm at 4, so my only choice to replace it is an immob. Chilblane does the exact same damage as Block of Ice, not one iota more, except it is DoT instead of all at once like BoI. Even slotted with 3 damage IOs it is still only 60 damage. Frostbite is worse at 9 DoT and would need even more slotting. And my Shiver proc still does more when it triggers, which is more often than I thought it would. Does it get a 20% chance for each target it hits? Plus I still hate Imob. So if I remove Fly, move Hibernate or recall friend to the end (and the rare cases where I do team, recall friend is incredibly useful) and move things around to get Ice Slick, what do I need to slot it? Just 2 recharges, correct?
Thanks again for your help.
Local Man, are you saying I should get combat jumping instead of hover? I don't see any number difference between Hover & Combat jumping in Mids. Sure CJ may help against immob, but that doesn't affect my attacks, and hover has a cute effect where I flip instead of fall on my butt, which seems to let me attack a little faster from Knock Back. I think I read about you in our paper...
2 Recharge ISOs in Ice Slick is standard. Slotting Range can help too if you can fit it but it's not necessary.
I saw no Ice/Ice builds, but that's the next character I wanted to build. SO this is what I came up with.
I would appreciate any comments or suggestions, especially things I did wrong or could do better.
Thanks!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Ice Controller: Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Flight
Ancillary Pool: Primal Forces Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- Lock-Acc/Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(3), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(3), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(25), Lock-%Hold:50(25), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(34)
Level 1: Infrigidate -- AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb:50(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg:50(5), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx:50(5), AnWeak-DefDeb:50(42), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:50(42), AnWeak-%ToHit:50(42)
Level 2: Ice Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(13), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(17)
Level 4: Snow Storm -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(11), Slow-I:50(11), Slow-I:50(46)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(7), RechRdx-I:50(7)
Level 8: Shiver -- TmpRdns-Acc/Slow:50(A), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx:50(9), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow:50(9), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow:50(43), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow:50(43), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow:50(45)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(13), RechRdx-I:50(46)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(15), Zephyr-ResKB:50(15)
Level 16: Glacial Shield -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(17), LkGmblr-Def:50(19)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(19), Empty(50)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), EndMod-I:50(21)
Level 22: Arctic Fog -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:30(A), EndRdx-I:50(23), EndRdx-I:50(23)
Level 24: Recall Friend -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 26: Glacier -- Lock-Acc/Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(27), Lock-%Hold:50(27), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(31), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(31), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(31)
Level 28: Benumb -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(29), Acc-I:50(29), RechRdx-I:50(37), Acc-I:50(40)
Level 30: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(48)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx:50(33), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), BldM'dt-Acc:50(34), BldM'dt-Dmg:50(34)
Level 35: Sleet -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(36), HO:Membr(36), Achilles-ResDeb%:20(36), Slow-I:50(37), Slow-I:50(37)
Level 38: Heat Loss -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(39), RechRdx-I:50(39), EndMod-I:50(39), EndMod-I:50(40), Acc-I:50(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(43), RechRdx-I:50(46)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam:40(45), RctvArm-EndRdx:40(45)
Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(48), RechRdx-I:50(48)
Level 49: Fly -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(50), Zephyr-ResKB:50(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
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Set Bonus Totals: