Takin' A Break

Indeed that is what I was thinking.

I dont really think it should be in open zones, but what it should be in is every single mission in the entire game.

Then None of the content is level restricted, and you can pick and chose the story each of your characters experiences. It would make the game more of a "Chose your own Adventure" mmo, than any other game out there.

All games want you to play them the way "Almighty Dev Guy" has chosen for you to play it.

If you did what I just said, Almighty Dev Guy just has to make it, and then WE are in control over our characters, and the game.

That would be epically super extremely exciting.

Because no-one ever asked for that? And no-one ever cheered when it happened? Or is that another one of those "Yeah, but that's just YOU!" arguments that I seem to pick up like a velcro kitty rolling around in cotton sweaters?

I thought I already agreed that low-level zones need to have their level ranges readjusted. You have a good point and I plead no contest, but this is not something that is incompatible with a faster experience gain.

That's assuming temporary travel powers at level 5 were introduced to help with the Hollows, and I will throw you a party if you can find official confirmation that that and only that was the case. Specifically since they popped up in City of Villains before they showed up in City of Heroes. As far as I've seen and as far as I can tell, they were added because people were ******** that it took too long to get anywhere, so the developers decided to throw them a bone. This is a move to which the reshuffling of the Hollows has precisely no relevance. JUST better travel did not make up for it being a terrible zone, and it being a better zone didn't help people travel in other zones.

These are two solutions, but they are not aimed at solving the same root problem, in the same that putting oil and gas in your car both help it go, but in pretty much vastly different ways, and one doesn't really cover for the other.

Erm... Are you asking for things to SEE or things to DO? Because what you're describing here is NOT things to see in any definition of the word I'm aware of. Things to see would imply scenery that's there for you to see it if you can find it, and not specifically designed to actually DO anything. And of that, there is plenty, even in Perez Park. There's the famous little bridge, the little pier and a lot of frankly spooky locations hidden in there. You don't do anything there, but they're just scenery. They're there to be seen.

I can't disagree with more things to do in the overworld, as I've suggested ideas about them, myself, but that's not a failing of zone design, it's a failing of mission design, which isn't really relevant in the slightest to altering or not altering a zone's geometry design. Places to put such encounters in existing zone are plenty. We don't need new places added for this. Stuff them in a tunnel, in a back alley, underground or on a rooftop. There is enough to choose from.

"Outdoing the developers" doesn't assume that what I've seen in the Architect is great, it just means it's better. In the same way that I don't need to run faster than the bear, I just need to run faster than YOU. I hold a few specific story arcs in very high regard, but I can count the number of them on the fingers one one hand, and even them I value more for their overall implications than for their direct writing. Everything else in the game is pretty much, to quote Yahtzee: "Enemies over there. Kill they ***." And it's not even very well masked the majority of the time, especially in older content. The very point of my argument is that the developers could do a LOT better, and that they should actually put some more effort into those missions and clues, and possibly hire a professional writer to write these things. I keep hearing there is one, but I see no evidence for such a person in it in any of the recent content that we've seen.

The fact that players can outdo the developers in terms of content while facing all the serious limitations of the Architect isn't so much a praise for the players that do that. It's a criticism of the developers. One only hopes Going Rogues will change my opinion, but it would have to take a big step forward before that happens.

And even then, the architect has appropriately a zillion crappy arcs in the architect to every half-decent one, so even if there are diamond in the rough out there, I don't feel like diving face-first into the toilet to fish them out.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I keep seeing this, and I have to ask: why not just up your difficulty? I understand some people enjoy playing in +over nine thousand, but even if we assume +1xSomething is normal for the lower levels, you can still go up four levels from that, and I have a really hard time believing an arc in the 10-20 range can take you up 4 levels and still keep going. Even if you kill everything along the way. Yeah, if you get trapped not playing it for a while and shooting up a bunch of levels off other people's missions, then I can see that, but it's a problem with all arcs in general, not just lower-level ones, and has been a problem for as long as the game has existed.

I outlevel my arcs a lot of the time. Hell, some of the longer ones I may end up outlevelling twice. It's always as simple as just upping enemy levels, and for the most part, it's like nothing's wrong at all. I mean, the option is there. Why not use it?

I've gone at great length about why I hate this, so let me just reply with the following: There is no chance in hell that I'm going to accept being defeated by a bunch of Hellions when I'm level 30+ without me cancelling my account within five minutes of this happening. Old enemies becoming pushovers is the cornerstone of the feeling of progress the game has.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

There is never a move that is made by the dev team that is universally cheered or universally hated. So to act like there was no one who thought that the 2 or 3 consecutive xp increases plus smoothing and Patrol XP was a bit much is as misguided a notion as stating that no one liked it. I know among my friends and SG mates who are mostly silent on these boards, there was a lot of queries as to why Patrol XP got added. It wasn't like debt was even common anymore and we needed something to stamp it out completely.

I will still stand by the fact that leveling faster so you see less content, is not an appropriate substitute for adding more content. If leveling was indeed too slow then I'm fine with correcting it.

If leveling is too slow in some places and some level ranges, then correct that and that alone where appropriate.

I'm fully aware of the options to increase levels for missions and to turn off XP. How aware is the average new player? And why should anyone need to keep fiddling with level settings to maintain their desired level range on arcs and missions? Now if setting the mission difficulty at '+ whatever level' meant that your missions always stayed at '+ whatever level' no matter what level you were, relative to the contact, that would be something else.

Ok...noted. And I agree that it's not incompatible with faster XP gain. It is, however, currently not setup to work with our faster XP gain.


I never made that claim. If you read my post and infer that, then you might want to reread it.

I wonder if people would ***** as much if mission doors didn't take you needlessly to the opposite end of the zone that you were in, but instead gradually got farther away as you got into a new zone and started working for a contact. I think a lot of that is also messy design. Sending me as a level 2 hero to the opposite end of Galaxy or Atlas where I have to dodge level 5 and 6 goons is really dumb! It doesn't make me feel heroic to have to sneak past purple spawns. And I can only imagine how much fun it is for newbs who don't really have a handle on the con system yet.


Keep that in mind, because when you say the following...

One solution solves a problem in a specific place and situation. While the other has an impact globally. That's been my point from the beginning. I'm wary of applying global solutions(like travel powers for all at level 5) before looking at why people are finding travel to be a problem. Maybe the issue is that zone design and story arc doors are messed up and need fixing.

I'm not saying that temp travel powers are the devil and should be cast down, but maybe having them is also causing some negative side effects. Like people not wanting to spend time in zones and simply fly/hop to doors, maybe missing things that the devs would like you to experience while traveling about your business in the city.

I like scenery as much as the next guy, but I don't only like scenery. I'd also like to have stuff to do along with a nice picture to look at.

I can agree with that. It also depends on what the devs want to accomplish with a zone 'revamp'. Maybe they want to give the 'new zone experience' wherever possible. Although I can see that taking more time and resources, it usually turns out to be for the better.

This is kind of my point though. If MA was never released to the players, I wouldn't get all broken up about it if I knew the developers were using it, along with their ability to really add new assets to arcs and missions, to give us all better quality content overall.

Maybe I'm spoiled, but when SDKs and dev tools get released to the public, I'm not looking to see more of the same stuff that I've been seeing before.

I'm looking for wow factor stuff. Like Adam Miller's work on NWN and NWN2. Or like the guys who made Mechwarrior out of the Crysis engine. So yeah, there are some nice stories in MA. Like the Do it yourself Moonbase project. I love that. But in the end...it doesn't offer me anything much that I can't get from playing regular dev content.

I can't think of anyone that didn't cheer for power customization... anyone out there NOT like power customization?

I'm not aware of it being a solution to lack of content. I always perceived it as a solution to a barbaric levelling curve that left many blue-balled with long stretches of diddly squat but rerunning old missions. I know I'm in this camp, myself. I remember grinding missions for a full 8-hour day just to get from 44 to 45. And what did I get for my efforts? Three more slots which, by that point, I may or may not have even needed. This is not a good levelling speed, not in any way like what I would describe as good. When the game runs me through what no-one can deny is pretty repetitive content and keeps me from seeing anything new and interesting for days, and indeed weeks on end in the old days, I call for a fix based on that alone. It could have had a zillion hours of content and I'd still have called for an increase in levelling speed, because it was too damn slow.

Isn't that what happened, though? They fixed, I believe, around 10-20, where the biggest schizophrenia was taking place and certain levels felt like brick walls, and they fixed 35-50 where the levelling speed fell on it *** and ground to a halt. That's where the big problems were, that's where the fixes went.

We have precedent to judge from. If City of Heroes suffered from arbitrary runaround, City of Villains most decidedly did not. All missions were in the same zone, most were nearby, and few had much travel to do to them. People still complained to no end, and the complaints were as various as the fish in the sea. People wanted travel powers. There was no one specific problem they wanted to fix with travel powers, and I'm convinced that there was not and IS not a problem that out and out REQUIRES travel powers to fix. People just want travel powers because people just want travel powers. That's why the temporary travel powers were given - because people asked for them. Not because there was any specific problem that they were intended to fix, even if they ended up fixing a few anyway. It was a player request that got fulfilled when a free reward slot opened up with the introduction of Mayhem missions.

And again, that's assuming that travel powers were solely intended as a solution to the problem of people finding travel to be a problem. As far as I've seen, people only see travel as a problem in comparison to travel powers as the better alternative. Why walk when you can ride? And why not ride when you COULD ride? That's a lot like the complaints we're hearing now about why, to drag out an old meme, a casual player can't completely purple out his Warshade. Why does he even want to? Well, it's there. Why would he NOT?

If we assumed that temporary travel powers were intended to solve some kind of problem with travelling pre-level 14, then I could conceivably concede to your point, but it'd take quite a bit to convince me that that assumption has merit. I just don't see it.

A specifically mention butcher notwithstanding, yes, it very much does usually turn out for the better. Except for when it turn out to not happen at all, because revamping a new zone is as much trouble as making a new one, so why bother? That's the point - if we can't see zone retouches because it takes too much effort, then can we at least see SOMETHING happen to them that doesn't take as much effort? My weariness of them ruining their own designs aside, I can't really refuse a full-scale redesign, but the chances of this happening to a good half a dozen zones can best be described as "When pigs fly through a frozen hell during a blue moon." And I'd sooner have old Hazard zones redone half-way than not redone at all, as that would at least give us another zone to play with.

Here's the problem with that - from about the time of the Rikti Invasion, we have gotten almost no new content in the game, save for a few missions here and there. And even a lot of that is terrible. I don't know who wrote Montague's dialogue, but he or she should have been given more time to do it than over a lunch break. I understand that we got several major systems in the meantime, and that we're basically stockpiling our new content in Going Rogue right now, but I can't escape the feeling that asking for pure masterpieces every time harms the overall game as just not a lot happens in it. Not every mission needs unique maps and enemies, and a few less MINDBOGGLING arcs might do the game some good.

I'm certainly going to hold the developers to a pretty high standard overall, but for the sake of just having more content, I can live with one masterpiece and a good bit of decent work, specifically over two very short masterpieces. Not everything has to be the arc of the covenant with thunder and lighting on the side. In fact, looking at old content, Operation World Wide Red uses absolutely nothing other than generic off-the-shelf instances and stock enemies, with the possible exclusion of the Kronos Titan, and it still manages to be a damn good arc just on the strength of its writing.

I'd like to see more arcs, and while I DO want them to be great, I don't want them to be so great they never get made to begin with. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, as it were.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

For years, I have been a staunch supporter of City of Heroes. I joined up with friends back in June of 2004 and have been all over Paragon City, the Rogue Isles, and all the other weird places in-between. I’ve pretty much seen it all.

And that was my problem – I’ve pretty much done everything in the game, with only a few exceptions. From story arcs to Hami raids to almost every TF and SF in the game, and even some PvP, I’ve done almost all of it. And since 2008, there’s not been a lot for me to explore, story-wise.

For my game play experience, content has always packed the most bang for the buck. And since Issue 12, I have been lacking much of anything to do. Sure, many great systems were put in place since then, such as leveling pacts and power customization, but I’m still going through the same content that I was since May 2008.

Recently, I found myself biting at the bit for more information on GR. I found myself getting curmudgeonly… well, more so than usual. And getting that way about a game (regardless of how much time I’ve invested in it) just seemed silly. So I decided to take a hiatus.

I’ve thought about leaving this game. In the past, many have said (to paraphrase) that if one is thinking about leaving the game because there’s no new content, new content will probably not keep them from leaving anyhow. In the past, I’ve agreed with them. Recently, I’ve re-thought this idiom... and I still agree, although now I’m seeing it from both perspectives.

In other words, I’m not sure the GR will be the magic bullet to my personal MMO quagmire. It could be the best thing since sliced bread… or I could be psyching myself up so much for it that anything released would be a letdown for my expectations. Even so, at the end of the day, GR is just another part of CoH. That can be both good and bad.

Ultimately, I decided that I need to diversify my interests instead of fixating on a single game as my sole source of MMO entertainment. I am therefore taking an indeterminable leave of absence.

In the past week or two, I’ve found myself drawn to another game, and purchased a lifetime subscription, meaning I can play it as long as I want, as often as I want, without having to worry about a subscription. That's not an intended slam on CoX, but considering I’ve spent almost $900 alone on subscriptions in CoX (double that for my wife, and not even including our box or booster purchases), I felt a lifetime sub was a good option. Plus, it leaves options open for the future, but I’ll discuss those in a moment.

I have a lot of good memories of this game, from CuppaJo, Cricket, Lighthouse, Ex Libris, the closed betas to the avalanche of Kronos Titans in the Ski Chalet, gold titles during Valentine’s Day and the holidays, the Lighthouse Lounge, etc. That’s not to forget the real life events, like the first Meet & Greet Howie’s Game Shack in SoCal, to Milpitas, and the Inaugural Hero Con & the Lucky 13. Therefore, I have no regrets about giving this game my time and my money, as not only has it been a great source of entertainment, but also because I’ve me many wonderful people both in and out of game, and had some really great times at the many events and cons I’ve been to.


This is also not a permanent “goodbye” (and no, you can’t have my stuff). A lifetime sub on another game means that I don’t have to worry about two different subscriptions. I’m still paid up until May for CoX, so I will almost certainly be seeing the GR beta test before my current subscription expires. I might also be online to play with my wife, if she needs the company. We’ll see where things go from there, and drop more money into subscriptions as necessary.

When and if I do return, it will probably be in a more casual state. Most of my SG mates left CoH over a year ago, right after the inaugural Hero Con, sadly. The SG will remain mostly private for my wife and I, although I think dugfromthearth might still be wandering around our halls on occasion, which is fine. Still, there’s no longer a need to host a SG web page or anything fancy at this rate.

I know this post may sadden some, but I could not in good conscious leave the game for an indeterminable amount of time without letting my friends know where I had gone.

So after five and a half long years, I bid you adieu, at least for the moment. I wish War Witch, Positron, and the rest of the crew all the best of luck in GR and their future endeavors. To all my friends on the forums, although you may not see me, I’ll still be checking in and watching, probably from the rooftops or deep space. Make sure to look up once in a while and wave.

With most sincere regards and deepest appreciation,

Obsidius

I remember a few people who posted along the lines of "Power customization is dumb! The devs should be working on X, Y, and Z instead!" Does that count?

I remember several people complaining that the devs should have been spending their time on more meaningful projects, like new/revamped content and bug fixes.

My attitude was ambivalence. I was happy for the people who wanted it but haven't really used it myself. This is largely due to the fact that my characters are almost all using powersets that are either completely uncustomizable or have very limited customization options. In fact of my six characters only one powerset is fully customizable and I've left it with the default settings.