Most of the TFs required for TF commander are fairly easy TFs done everyday by players using SOs. You will have more slots than a player "in the level range" of the TF while exemplared. They were designed back before IOs so you won't really be at a disadvantage. Also the team make up can make up for losing set bonuses. And there are always inspirations to lean on.
If you don't plan on running some of the lower level task forces repeatedly for merits, I don't think a second build would do you much good. Then again I did plan out a build that would have been used for running Posi and Synapse on a small 3 person team but never took the plunge.
Poisonous Ice 50 Ice/Rad
Icy Jax 50 Ice/SS
Jaxon Penn 50 Shield/Mace
Cpt Clax 50 Thugs/Dark
Lady BlackIce 50 Dark/Cold
Lady Black Ice 50 Dark/Ice
Bella Jax 50 Storm/Sonic
Operative Jax 50 SoA
Level 50 Trick Arrow Alts
TA/A-Plant/TA-Bots/TA
Level 50 Claws Scrappers
SR-Regen-DA-Invul-WP-FA
good deal, I guess I'll just stick with my build unless I see a real need to make another one - thx.
I built my SRs around level 35 IOs so that I still get the full benefit when you consider ED, but I can run TFs below that and get a nice set of bonuses. I've seen some builds using level 30s, but I'm not sure I want to go that low.
Example Focused Fighting 6 slotted
Level 50 Red Fortune= 57.52%
Level 45 Red Fortune= 57.02
Level 40 Red Fortune= 56.57
Level 35 Red Fortune= 56.08
Level 30 Red Fortune= 54.23
I would suggest using all level 35s for an all around durable toon, but I would suggest it for future toons.
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
Quote:
I have one planned for my Fire/SR, and some of the IOs in it, though it's not complete yet. I created it so I could exemplar down to level 28 and still have soft-capped Melee and Ranged Def. It's specifically for doing TFs and being able to tackle AVs. It's expensive - it uses the PVP +3% Def IO. It will run the Incinerate>Scorch>Cremate>Scorch chain prior to getting all the global recharge.|
Originally Posted by vinque
I'm curious if my other /SR brothers created an alternate exemplar build. I didn't plan on using my Kat/SR to exemplar below 40 at all (so he is designed to completely fall apart below lvl 40). However, I noticed one of the accolades I'd like to get, TF Commander, is going to require a significant amount of time spent below lvl 40.
I tried making a cheap build (in mids) that got me high def, but unless I sacrifice primary powers it tends to fall apart in the mid 30s (basically when I would lose weave). Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions? And, yes, I did have way too much free time at work today. |
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Well very few of my builds involve level 50 IO's in the sets. I almost always build using set IO's in the 30 to 35 range and rarely above so what I loose by exemping (which I do frequently) is generally powers and not set bonuses. So, in fact, my main, a Claws/SR, got a much less exemp friendly build rather than the reverse (her sets being all lvl 50's except when the set capped lower).
On my main, ma/sr, im more worried about what attacks I will have more so that what my def will be. Posi sucks, cause your usually 3-4 ppl, but then again there isn't that big of mobs. Synapse and above is were i worry with travel powers and stamina soaking up a lot of power picks. But on most of those you have full teams, so a def/troller or two and a tank and you should be fine either way.
You could get an alternate build, get a lot of IOs and sets for them, but you probably wont need them and can just combine stuff into purples along the way and be fine in my experience.
I find the hardest thing to do on lowbie tfs on my main is running full steam like im still softcapped, and even then the passive resist pops in a lil and I usually dont die too much after the first couple.
Like said above, if you plan on only doing them once for the accolades, you'll be fine with some purples for posi, and a good team for the rest. Especially with the new powers above the max of the tf thing, you should be fine, after all, your still a scrapper.
Quote:
This is exactly what I did on my DB/SR.|
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
I would suggest using all level 35s for an all around durable toon
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My defense powers all use lvl 35 IOs. Even my LoTG sets are lvl 35 or lower. I actually exemplar down very very well with my lvl 50 build. I ran every one of the TF Commander Task Forces over Christmas. I was very pleased with how well I could exemplar, and actually join lower level teams and TFs now regularly.... even down to level 15 for Positron.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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- Adjusted set IO levels of Dragon's Tail to 27 to enable set bonus at level 24 (Ouroboros flashback arcs).
- Adjusted set IO levels of Eagle's Claw, Evasion, Aid Self and Petrifying Gaze to follow Power Level-2 rather than Power Level+3 rule so as to make set bonuses take effect whenever the respective powers are available. This change dramatically enhances Defense power (and thus, survival rates) at lower levels, particularly for flashback arcs and Task Forces.
- NO GET HITSU @ Exemplar Levels 24-26 (includes Sister Psyche TF and 20-24 Ouroboros flashbacks)
Melee Defense: 44.4%
Ranged Defense: 43.1%
AoE Defense: 25.6% - NO GET HITSU @ Exemplar Levels 27-29 (includes Moonfire TF and 25-29 Ouroboros flashbacks)
Melee Defense: 48.1%
Ranged Defense: 43.1%
AoE Defense: 25.6% - NO GET HITSU @ Exemplar Levels 30+ (includes Citadel TF and 30-34 Ouroboros flashbacks)
Melee Defense: 48.1%
Ranged Defense: 45.6%
AoE Defense: 47.2% (increases to 49.1% at Exemplar Levels 33+)
It *IS* possible to build */SR to handle exemplar levels.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Quote:
With the major issue that you've completely gimped your damage output.
|
Originally Posted by Redlynne
It *IS* possible to build */SR to handle exemplar levels.
|
This thread got me thinking about what a dedicated exemplar build on my main might look. How low could I get if I didn't care about using the build in the higher levels (over 30) while remaining effective. After some playing around in Mids this is what came out. It should (if I understand everything Paragon Wiki is telling me about enhancements and exemplar) do very well down to level 22 keeping all set bonuses functional except the Numina's pair in Health.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
GRETA-001 low exemplar (v1.00.i16): Level 50 Science Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strike -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), T'Death-Dam%(33)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(7), GftotA-Def/Rchg(17), GftotA-Run+(36), Ksmt-ToHit+(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(7), GftotA-Def/Rchg(17), GftotA-Run+(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 4: Slash -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Hectmb-Dam%(27), Achilles-ResDeb%(33)
Level 6: Spin -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(9), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(15), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Armgdn-Dam%(39)
Level 8: Follow Up -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(9), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(23), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), T'Death-Dam%(34)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- EndRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15), Zephyr-ResKB(36), LkGmblr-Def(37), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(37), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 14: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Health -- Mrcl-Heal(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(21), Mrcl-Rcvry+(39), Numna-Heal(40), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(40), RgnTis-Regen+(40)
Level 18: Focus -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(19), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Apoc-Dam%(29), ExStrk-Dam%(42)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(39), P'Shift-End%(43)
Level 22: Agile -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 24: Dodge -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(25), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 26: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(45)
Level 32: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Evasion -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(46), GftotA-Def/Rchg(48), GftotA-Run+(48)
Level 38: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 41: Elude -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(46), Zephyr-ResKB(48), Winter-ResSlow(50)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel(50)
Level 49: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-Pcptn(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:
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Quote:
Not exactly. The most important thing to keep in mind is that any powers you do not have access to, you lose the set bonuses from those powers as well as the individual IO bonuses. So, you're defense numbers will be greatly lowered if you go down to level 22 as you'll lose Dodge, Lucky, Maneuvers, Evasion, The Steadfast + 3% Def, as well as the BotZ set bonuses in Elude and Super Jump.|
Originally Posted by Doomguide
This thread got me thinking about what a dedicated exemplar build on my main might look. How low could I get if I didn't care about using the build in the higher levels (over 30) while remaining effective. After some playing around in Mids this is what came out. It should (if I understand everything Paragon Wiki is telling me about enhancements and exemplar) do very well down to level 22 keeping all set bonuses functional except the Numina's pair in Health.
|
Another thing to keep in mind is that any proc will function no matter what level IO it is, as long as you have access to the power. This also works with the Kismet: +Acc, Numinas, Miracle, and Regen Tissue uniques, so the Numina's +Regen/Recovery you have in Health will still function at any level you exemp to, even if it's a level 50 IO.
Global bonuses ARE affected by what level you exemp to. So, the LotG:Recharge Speed will function down to -3 of their level, provided you still have access to the power they are slotted in.
It also makes sense that you can slot IOs +3 levels higher than the power is gained at for maximum gain, as you won't lose anything from those powers. For example, you might as well slot level 31 IOs in your level 28 power because you won't have access to the set bonuses/global bonuses slotted in the power until you have access to it.
Also, if you can afford them, PVP IOs are unaffected by exemplaring, just like purple sets. You do, however, still need access to the powers they are slotted in to gain their set and individual bonuses.
I'll throw my Fire/SR exemp build here - I've slightly altered it since last I posted it, but it's designed to exemp down to level 28 and have Melee Def 46.2%, Ranged Def 45.6%, though only 14.8% AoE Def. Once you gain level 30, it goes to 23.5% AoE, and at 35 45.2% AoE. I made the IOs level 30 so I can exemp down to level 27, but I do lose 6% Def to all positions because I lose access to Tough and it's global bonuses. It's designed to run the Incin>Scorch>cremate>Scorch attack chain until you gain all the +recharge bonuses, at which point it goes up to the Incin>GFS>Cremate chain for better DPS.
Code:
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Gaidin,
Much of what you say is how I did understand it ...
For set bonuses though I read this in Paragon Wiki a while back:
"Set Bonuses are always on, even if the power in which the Set is slotted isn't activated, and even if that power is greyed out due to exemplaring! However, you do start to lose the bonuses if you exemplar more than three levels under the level of the IOs in the Set."
Which, as I said, is not how I understood it or, if I'm following you above, not how you currently understand they work. Did some rather limited testing a few months back using Enfeebled Operations in my Tenebrous Tentacles (Dark Mastery). Initially I slotted the set (for its +melee set bonus) as level 47's. Then having read the PW article I decided Enfeebled Ops was a very cheap set and I could afford to experiment a bit. I overwrote the set with a level 25 set and used Ouro to exemp well below any other +def (melee or otherwise) I had slotted. Both the combat attributes and my powers tab on personal info were showing exactly one bonus for melee defense ... +3.13%
[QUOTE]Global bonuses ARE affected by what level you exemp to. So, the LotG:Recharge Speed will function down to -3 of their level, provided you still have access to the power they are slotted in.[QUOTE]
Again a while back (far enough so my memories are a bit fuzzy) I tested this on my Emp/Rad/Dark who had several LotG +7.5% in her live build. Most of them were level 50 but she did have 2 slotted (and I think still does) in powers one available in and one not in Siren's Call. I zoned in and out of Siren's Call a number of times. For the life of me I could (edit:NOT) figure out how I ended up with the info I generated. Neither my understanding at the time (which was as you are stating) or PW seem to be correct. Now looking back on it one thing that didn't occur to me at the time was to wait 120 seconds and see if the bonuses I was getting changed.
What I really want to do is copy to test but at the moment unless I want to delete a large number of characters (25 or so) to drop under 12 character slots it seems to glitch and render the slot inaccessible if I just make room for one to be added. Purchasing a character slot on test atm also seems to want to add it to a non-existent Training Room 2.
In short, the situation lacks clarity, at least in my mind.
I'm looking at Reyna right now on live (my lvl 50 Emp/Rad/Dark). Her LotG +7.5% recharge are all lvl 50 IO's. Started "Save Waylon McCrane" in Ouroboros. This exemps me to 34th and should leave all my powers available thru level 39. The bonuses displayed by the Combat Attributes window are unexplainable, if accurate. Safely more than 120 seconds after entering exemplar she is showing only one +7.5% in Combat Attributes and only one Luck of the Gambler: Recharge Speed in personal info/powers tab. The powers with the LotG in them are Fortitude, Vengeance, Hover and Maneuvers. Both Hover and Maneuvers are greyed out, she took them at 47th and 49th. Both Fortitude and Vengeance are available in the power trays. Obviously both available powers are click powers to activate. Most likely explaination is the Combat Attributes is wrong, but are there any other explainations I might be missing?
That didn't ring true for me either, so I jumped in game and did a bit of testing with my level 50 FF/nrg defender. He has total focus taken at 47 with 4 level 50 crushing impact in it, temp invul at level 44 with an entire level 30 steadfast protection set in it, and nova at 38 with (among other things) level 39 and level 41 pieces of cleaving blow in it.
Exemplaring to level 34 with ouro and losing access to total focus and temp invul (but not nova), I saw the following set bonuses change. The set bonuses from the crushing impact and cleaving blow sets vanished, but the set bonuses from steadfast (the hp and recov, not the 3%) did not (the 3% defense was also still present). So, we can conclude that only the level of the IOs matter - the power can be greyed out and the bonuses will still be there. If LOTG 7.5%s are globals like the 3%, they should also work in greyed out powers if the levels are still good.
edit: regarding the strange lotg behaviour, it's a really silly question, but are you sure you don't have another lower level lotg somewhere on your character you forgot about? Otherwise, exactly what levels did you take fort and venge? Was one of them at or below 34 and the other at 35 or 39? If so, maybe there's something screwy going on with the new exemplaring power availability.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Muon,
Nope, checked and rechecked, paranoid I was in fact missing something that basic, but no other LotG +7.5% on Reyna and yes they are all lvl 50 IO's. She has no other powers she can even slot with Defense sets much less slotted with LotG specifically. Fortitude was taken at 12th, Vengeance at 24th, and the other two at 47th and 49th. In fact I checked pretty much every 5 level group of Ouro TF's (exemped to 14th, 19th, 24th, 29th etc..) and the weird +7.5% recharge bonus first appears while exemped to level 29. Which makes no sense near as I can tell as both Fort and Veng are available at 24 (and 19 for that matter) as well as 29, and the other two powers remain many levels away yet.
And just now I logged in the current live build of my Claws/SR scrapper. Nearly all her sets are at the maximum level available now on one build (as implied in my first post here). Among the exceptions is one set of BotZ in CJ (the -kb is 10th and the other two are 25th) and all 5 of her LotG +7.5% which are 25's (the rest of the set is all lvl 50 LotG). One of those LotG is in Evasion. All 5 LotG +7.5% show as working in Combat Attributes while exemped to level 24 in Ouro. Her total global +recharge is 57.5% at level 24 from Quickness (taken at 28th) plus those 5 LotG.
Lastly I've found one of my older copies of her on test. The alternate build was at level 1 yet and I'm working on creating the build posted above and plan to initially only put the enhancements as used above in the powers from level 32 and up and see what the Attributes says at least on test.
Something you can try is to manually time a power recharge as precisely as possible (something long, like AB) and see what recharge level it implies. Since you know what the power has in it, you should be able to check what level of global recharge you *actually* have, to see if it's a real numbers display bug.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Quote:
Agreed. I have not finished my build - it's my toon's second, and incomplete, so I have not even tried exemplaring with it yet. I got my info here:|
Originally Posted by Doomguide
In short, the situation lacks clarity, at least in my mind.
|
http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/E...n_Enhancements
This may be incorrect and out of date... But here's the info I was going off of quoted:
Quote:
|
Set bonuses shut down if: 1. Your exemplared level is less than the minimum level the enhancement can exist at. 2. The power the set was slotted in is unavailable: You've exemplared below when the power was taken." |
Quote:
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"Chance for" enhancements are not affected by exemplaring, so long as the power is available. (Naturally, damage scales with combat level.) These are also unaffected by exemplar level (again, so long as the power they're in is active): - The big three uniques: Miracle: Recovery, Numina's Convalescence: Regeneration/Recovery, Regenerative Tissue: Regeneration - Kismet: Accuracy - Stealth IOs: Unbounded Leap: Stealth, Freebird: Stealth, Time and Space Manipulation: Stealth, Celerity: Stealth - Rectified Reticle: Increased Perception |
Ah, that's the reason. You're still looking at the wikia version of paragonwiki. That version was abandoned when wikia insisted on putting ads for things like RMT on the pages, and afaik is currently maintained (and none too well) by those same RMTers. It's got a *lot* of outdated and incorrect information on it. The current, properly maintained and legit version is hosted at http://wiki.cohtitan.com . If you look at the same page over there, it says:
Quote:
which matches my experience perfectly.
| Set Bonuses are always on, even if the power in which the Set is slotted isn't activated, and even if that power is greyed out due to exemplaring! However, you do start to lose the bonuses if you exemplar more than three levels under the level of the IOs in the Set. |
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
The cohtitan Paragon Wiki article is where I read what made me rethink and come up with the build posted above. It does appear to be accurate except for the one abnormality noted with my Emp/Rads LotG +7.5% bonuses, which at this point I'm attributing to a bug or glitch in the reporting. While limited, I do have evidence set bonuses work as the cohtitan wiki site reports them to work and no evidence in contradiction to it. Both the Enfeebled Operations set I had in my scrapper (before overwriting it for a Gravitational Anchor set) and 2 of the Impervium Armor set (for 2.5% +recovery) currently in my Emp/Rad work(ed) when the power they were in was greyed out but I was exemped to within 3 of the IO's slotted.
I am going to continue to put the Low Exemplar build together on the test server and see if anything odd does crop up, but at this point I'm expecting confirmation and not contradiction to the PW Article.
I'm curious if my other /SR brothers created an alternate exemplar build. I didn't plan on using my Kat/SR to exemplar below 40 at all (so he is designed to completely fall apart below lvl 40). However, I noticed one of the accolades I'd like to get, TF Commander, is going to require a significant amount of time spent below lvl 40.
I tried making a cheap build (in mids) that got me high def, but unless I sacrifice primary powers it tends to fall apart in the mid 30s (basically when I would lose weave). Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions?
And, yes, I did have way too much free time at work today.