There are two powers that make "things go flying all over". Three counting Nova, but nobody cares if they go flying if they're not getting up afterwards. Every other power makes ONE thing go flying, at most.
My basic rule was (I'm very rusty on Energy) "if I shoot it, it's mine." I pretty much took the job of single target assassin.
Energy Torrent can be used, with careful placement, as a singletarget attack.
It's also probably useful to leave sprint on, take swift instead of hurdle, and slot 'em both for runspeed.
Also it is worth figuring out which AOE immobilizes have roots and which don't. (The only "don't" I can think of is Tenebrous Tentacles, but like I said- I'm rusty.) If the enemy is rooted, go wild.
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Gravity Control has it's -KB in its Holds, not its Immobs, so be careful with that one. I thought, that the singing tentacles did have a -KB component... though, it could be of short(ish) duration.
When at all possible use hover and shoot down. That turns knockback into knockdiown which everyone likes. Also you dont have to spam your high knockback attacks every time they are up. Use them wisely and stragetically.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
I consider the KB just another challenge to the game, to keep things interesting. It gets boring to just go from mob to mob, destroying them with no challenge. :P
But in all seriousness, like others said, only 2 powers are AoE, so its just a matter of proper timing. Does this mean you have to spend most of the fight positioning yourself instead of blasting? No, because with a little forethought you can already be where you need to be for the AoEs.
It's no different than a fire blaster or ice blaster lining up for their breath cones. Even with the rains, they have to set up the drop zone. So really, energy blasters are not all that different when it comes down to it.
Don't I know you???
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Just make sure that there is a competent controller on the team.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Energy Blast is beautiful. I love the sound effects, the graphics, and the overall feel.
But I'm getting frustrated, because I can't figure out how to use this powerset on a team without making a huge mess. The issue, of course, is the knockback. I spend more time positioning myself than actually shooting at stuff, and no matter where I'm standing things still go flying everywhere. I feel like I'm a huge hinderance to the team, even when I try to knock things down or into walls. So what are the secrets of dealing with this set? Or are there any? I've teamed with Energy Blasters before and noted things didn't go flying all over, but was it just because they decided not to shoot as much? |
Illusion has no AoE Immob, Grav has no -KB in it's AoE immob, and Defender Dark Blast has no -KB in it's AoE Immob.
Other than that it shouldn't be moving after aggro has been established even if you slam it with maximum slotted +KB attacks.
As an amusing anecdote... Last weekend I was leading a pug with my Energy/Energy/Force. I had 3 controllers on the team a Fire/Kin, an Earth/Emp, and a Plant/Rad.
I was crusing along playing as always and about the third mission on all 3 of the trollers complained about me KBing stuff. I kicked 'em all and hired one real controller (a Plant/TA as I recall) and had no issues after that. (In other words not ONE of those players that were complaining were doing their jobs by using their AoE immobs when they clearly knew from the previous missions that there was an energy blaster on the team.)
(Well it's not an issue for me I use and love the KB while soloing.)
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Energy Blast is beautiful. I love the sound effects, the graphics, and the overall feel.
But I'm getting frustrated, because I can't figure out how to use this powerset on a team without making a huge mess. The issue, of course, is the knockback. I spend more time positioning myself than actually shooting at stuff, and no matter where I'm standing things still go flying everywhere. I feel like I'm a huge hinderance to the team, even when I try to knock things down or into walls. So what are the secrets of dealing with this set? Or are there any? I've teamed with Energy Blasters before and noted things didn't go flying all over, but was it just because they decided not to shoot as much? |
Fulmens and Miladys have expressed some pretty core ideas to energy that you can take to the bank. So I will re-iterate them based on 47 levels of Energy-device use.
1) On a team I switch to a single target blaster. (I love Fulmens term; Single Target Assassin) You can do massive damage to a single target in short order, so champion whoever needs your assistance. Blast that mob that decided to attack one of your squishies, especially if that squishy is you. Don't attack mobs that are being engaged by melees unless its one they are not directly attacking. I have never had a scrap/tank complain about knocking a mob that they were not actively targeting at the time.
2) I love grouping with controllers. AoE immob is a free ticket to AoE KB, sorta. Know when you can AoE and when not. If it doesnt seem like a good tactic, just switch to single targets. Also, depending on your secondary, you can use your own immobilize prior to opening up on a single target. My favorite group tactic is web grenade followed by every attack in my arsenal, switch targets, repeat.
3) My last note is that positioning is key to Energy blast, like it or not. You have to identify quickly where you should be pointing your enemies. Indoors is pretty easy to find corners, wall outcrops, etc to blast things into. Once you pin a villain in one of these spots, no one will complain about them flopping and twitching in a corner, if they even notice before your done with the bad-guy. When all else fails, hover directly above and shoot down on top to keep them approximately in the same spot. Fly-enhanced Hover has been my best friend with Energy on a team. No matter what you do, mobs are gonna fly away, so take a few seconds at the beginning of a fight to determine where you want the villains to pile up. Move during combat. A second or two here and there will not hurt your team, but sending a villain flying into a nearby spawn could.
Good Luck, and dont give up. Energy Blasts ARE VERY FUN and Beautiful.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
First off I have to commend your for actually caring because I personally couldn't care less where the enemies go since they will be dead before it really starts to matter.
I have found the best way to control your knockback is to focus on using powers like Energy Torrent and Ex Blast only when you are in tight spaces and things dont get spread out. Since you team a lot I will assume that there are Controllers on the team. If there are then they should be locking down enemies which negates your KB, but if there aren't just attack from above to knock things back, but down. I normally just hover and Blast from above which never causes issues with the teams I form.
"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
Just a quick note about the controllers and their-kb immobilize powers, in most cases the -kb is of shorter duration than the immobilize portion (much shorter potentially) .. so use the powers with the most kb (or most likely to cause issues) right after you see all the immobilize animations appear.
Thanks guys.
I mostly play Controllers, so I'm very familiar with the various -KB powers. Unfortunately, I'm also familiar with the havoc of poorly played knockback can cause.
After trying Energy/Energy to level 28, I gave up and swapped the character for Energy/Mind. I know some people really like Energy/Energy but I was struggling to enjoy it. I'm hoping the the AoE in Mind plus Repulsion Bomb from the Energy APP will leave me some AoE options for teaming.
BTW I do Hover and shoot from above, but I have found even doing that that enemies still get flung further than I want. It works out well enough solo. Luckily I'm familiar enough with Storm Summoning that holding back isn't a huge issue.
Quick question for you all though. Considering we're basically saying in most team situations Energy should not use its AoEs, does this mean the set is a considerably less desirable team member to have? I know the main issue with Mind Blast is the lack of AoEs thing.
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It actually feels significantly different. With the breath cones, I don't hestitate to fire them as often. If it hits one or two enemies its at least not wasted.| It's no different than a fire blaster or ice blaster lining up for their breath cones. Even with the rains, they have to set up the drop zone. So really, energy blasters are not all that different when it comes down to it. |
With Energy Blast I often feel like I'm angling for a shot that never appears. But again only on teams. I think this character solos really well.
For what it's worth, I feel that most Blasters shoot too early.
Right after they have burned off their best attacks, assuming they didn't take the alpha and die outright, all the debuffs and controls start to take effect. Now the enemies will take lots more damage and not fight back...if and when the Blaster's good attacks recharge.
The time you "waste" positioning yourself gives your team time to put their powers into effect and prepare the battlefield.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Then you are obsessing over a "perfect shot" and way over-thinking it.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
It actually feels significantly different. With the breath cones, I don't hestitate to fire them as often. If it hits one or two enemies its at least not wasted.
With Energy Blast I often feel like I'm angling for a shot that never appears. But again only on teams. I think this character solos really well. |
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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I'm not saying that at all. I use my area of effect powers as soon as they are recharged and could care less what team members think. Only a noob team would reject you because of your power selection. Playing with Energy/Energy is not hard at all and as along as you aren't blatantly using Energy Torrent, Power Push, or Explosive Blast when the Tanker or whomever has enemies tight, you shouldn't worry about it and just enjoy your character. However since you no longer have an Energy/Energy Blaster its kind of pointless to worry about at this point.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Quick question for you all though. Considering we're basically saying in most team situations Energy should not use its AoEs, does this mean the set is a considerably less desirable team member to have? I know the main issue with Mind Blast is the lack of AoEs thing.
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"People love to talk, but hate to listen." Alice Duer Miller, American Author (1874-1942)
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The people I team with know what they are doing. (I've teamed with Novella before in fact.) Melee toons that know there is an Energy blaster (or an illusion controller for that matter) on the team should be gathering aggro near a wall or a corner instead of out in the middle of a huge room. If they aren't they are depriving the team of AoE damage from your blaster that is every bit as good as Fistfull of Arrows + Explosive Arrow or any other cone + AoE combination (Buckshot and M30 Grenade are the same powers and effects they just have different graphics though they are seldom complained about)|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Thanks guys.
I mostly play Controllers, so I'm very familiar with the various -KB powers. Unfortunately, I'm also familiar with the havoc of poorly played knockback can cause. After trying Energy/Energy to level 28, I gave up and swapped the character for Energy/Mind. I know some people really like Energy/Energy but I was struggling to enjoy it. I'm hoping the the AoE in Mind plus Repulsion Bomb from the Energy APP will leave me some AoE options for teaming. BTW I do Hover and shoot from above, but I have found even doing that that enemies still get flung further than I want. It works out well enough solo. Luckily I'm familiar enough with Storm Summoning that holding back isn't a huge issue. Quick question for you all though. Considering we're basically saying in most team situations Energy should not use its AoEs, does this mean the set is a considerably less desirable team member to have? I know the main issue with Mind Blast is the lack of AoEs thing. |
In general the people that complain about knock back are usually their own worst enemy on the team. They want the energy blaster to play smart yet they don't.
To answer your other question...
If you want massive AoE try Fire/Fire or Rad/Fire. If that isn't survivable enough for you try an Ice/Fire and slot your primary with at least 1 slow enhancement in each AoE power (except blizzard).
Before I had any IO sets slotted my Ice/Fire was soloing +1/X4 in the late 20s with few survival issues.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Yes and no. You are correct that by letting fly with AoEs early the Blaster isn't benefiting from debuffs. However, the problem I find is that if I hold off on my AoEs the majority of the minions are dead (or almost dead) and so the AoEs are wasted. I play an AR Blaster and using my AoEs I can take out the majority of the minions pretty quickly even without debuffs (as well as severely wounding the LTs). So by firing off my AoEs immediately I deal with the chaff quickly and allow time for the tougher bosses to get debuffed before turning my attention to them.
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
For what it's worth, I feel that most Blasters shoot too early.
Right after they have burned off their best attacks, assuming they didn't take the alpha and die outright, all the debuffs and controls start to take effect. Now the enemies will take lots more damage and not fight back...if and when the Blaster's good attacks recharge. The time you "waste" positioning yourself gives your team time to put their powers into effect and prepare the battlefield. |
Since switching to Energy/Mind, things have gotten a lot better. The character is only lvl 19 but the addition of an extra AoE blast has made this character a lot more fun for me.
My aim is getting better too. I've played other KB sets before (Storm and FF mostly, but also some Archery and Assault Rifle) but the feel of Energy Blast is very different. I'm still calling off shots I wouldn't have hesitated to take with a different blast set (e.g. situations where the mobs are positioned such that any attempt to manuever will aggro other groups), but I'm writing that off as just one of the downsides of being able to solo so smoothly. We'll see how it goes.
Thanks again for the replies.
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Bingo! I sometimes use this strategy when the playing environment calls for it e.g. nice open areas where you can get up and out of foe ranged attacks. The nice thing about this attack style is the only direction things can go is down and thus you're just pounding the living crap out of the baddies into the ground which is always a good thing. Also, based on the description for Hover, I believe it will give you more defense and use up less endurance while being used. |
Originally Posted by Airhammer
When at all possible use hover and shoot down. That turns knockback into knockdiown which everyone likes. Also you dont have to spam your high knockback attacks every time they are up. Use them wisely and stragetically.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Since switching to Energy/Mind, things have gotten a lot better. The character is only lvl 19 but the addition of an extra AoE blast has made this character a lot more fun for me.
My aim is getting better too. I've played other KB sets before (Storm and FF mostly, but also some Archery and Assault Rifle) but the feel of Energy Blast is very different. I'm still calling off shots I wouldn't have hesitated to take with a different blast set (e.g. situations where the mobs are positioned such that any attempt to manuever will aggro other groups), but I'm writing that off as just one of the downsides of being able to solo so smoothly. We'll see how it goes. Thanks again for the replies. |
I'm glad you decided energy/mental, i was actually going to suggest something like this or energy/fire.
As others have suggested, hoverblasting will turn the kb to kd for the most part, so no issues there. I actually have an energy/fire though that i use hurdle/cj with, which is the best actual maneuvering in the game. He uses it, and as i was going to suggest energy/fire or energy/mental, the kb won't matter. Becasue with even the one extra aoe power, when you have them slotted some and aim/bu used with them, just well in your case, psy scream, then ET, then explosive blast, and the enemies are dead anyways so it doesn't really matter if they're knocked back too.
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| It's also probably useful to leave sprint on, take swift instead of hurdle, and slot 'em both for runspeed. |
Plasmic's Guide to Sonic/Mental
Plasmic's Guide to Regeneration
Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server
I understand your frustration, but don't let it get you down. Play to your strengths.
1. If you kb the target, he's yours. Finish him off.
2. Don't use your AoEs unless the knockback will be controlled in some way or your attack is going to defeat most of your targets, making the knockback irrelevant.
3. Use Aim and Build Up every single time they recharge. Again, nobody cares about knocked back targets that are defeated.
4. Hover-blast and shoot down.
5. Target strays and runaways (i.e., targets the tanker and scrapper are ignoring).
6. Like it or not, knockback is the mitigation of Energy Blast (like the -end of electric and -recharge/slow of ice). Knockback is like a mini-hold when you think about it, taking a foe out of action for precious seconds. It only becomes an issue when your teammates believe (rightly or wrongly) that KB's mitigation is more trouble than it's worth.
7. There are some teams out there that embrace chaos. These people likely have lots of controllers and storm defenders and really don't care where you knock stuff around. It's the tanker-centric teams that get bent out of shape with KB.
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If you had two blasters, one Energy and the other Fire, I'd ask you to play the Fire because I love the AoEs and not having to deal with KB is nice. But if I knew you were a competent player and the choice was between your Energy blaster and some random Fire blaster available, I'd pick your Energy blaster because ultimately it's more about the player than the powerset.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Quick question for you all though. Considering we're basically saying in most team situations Energy should not use its AoEs, does this mean the set is a considerably less desirable team member to have? I know the main issue with Mind Blast is the lack of AoEs thing.
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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
I would have to agree it's about the player, more than the power set. Been playing on Champion server as a energy /energy blaster. it's great for soloing i've found. I haven't ever considered putting kb's in any of the powers to decrease the whole kb issue. I don't use power push due to energy torrent(in groups I use it more for defensive purposes) along with the Secondary Power thrust(which is the only power I have put a KB enhancement in) been playing my main (Jugg Beamer) since 2002. Prefer to while in group do the assasin route and knock one off than kill and repeat when the mob mass is down I will use my nova to take out and finish the mob off in some missions I will use nova right after the tank pulls aggro to kill minnions and LT's depending on their level to me. Usually use nova in combination with buildup if not a red and yellow as well the yellow is actually more important to the red insiration to boost the number of hits per mob of nova.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Yes and no. You are correct that by letting fly with AoEs early the Blaster isn't benefiting from debuffs. However, the problem I find is that if I hold off on my AoEs the majority of the minions are dead (or almost dead) and so the AoEs are wasted. I play an AR Blaster and using my AoEs I can take out the majority of the minions pretty quickly even without debuffs (as well as severely wounding the LTs). So by firing off my AoEs immediately I deal with the chaff quickly and allow time for the tougher bosses to get debuffed before turning my attention to them.
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Which only means you are either waiting too long, or your AOE contribution wasn't really needed.
In a team setting, most of the group's powers are indeed "wasted". The problem isn't necessarily you, the problem is the game is designed for two people to be able to take 8 man spawns.
My motto is simple, and applies to everything in this game:
"Only use it when you need it."
That may be debuffs, AOEs, control, tactics........whatever. That simple motto, regardless of toon takes care of all the problems that I can conceivably have power over.
Well my Energy/Mental Blaster is lvl 32 now. I just got Nova, and it's sort of fun to send stuff flying.
This definitely isn't my favorite character. I knew about blowing things downward and into walls before I started, but opportunities for that seem limited inside actual missions, because of low ceilings and mob placement. The character does solo rather remarkably, though.
I don't know. I'm not the hugest fan of playing Blasters to begin with, tho I always like a good one on my team. The only characters I can compare this guy to are my Assault Rifle, Archery, Fire, and Radiation Blasters who all stalled around lvl 25. I think I am just more of a Controller player. But Energy Blast sure does have great graphics.
Blasters seem like a simple AT......they are afterall one of the most popular....
.......but you're either a blaster type or you're not. There are, admittedly, a lot of reasons to become frustrated with one, and not surprisingly a lot of players start blasters only to dump them later on.
As important as positioning and angles is timing, and that's the crux of what a lot of these posts are really saying. A Fire blaster doesn't have to worry much about this, but any blaster that has a knockback component in their AOE powers, whether that be shockwave, electron haze, energy torrent, M30, buckshot, explosive arrow.........any of them.......needs to understand that they are just one component of a team's AOE damage. Basically every AT is going to provide some form of AOE power, and outside of those that think their AT has to be "pure", most players will bring some of that potential to the party. Too many people think that the Blaster is the AOE, when he is just another component of the AOE.
It is highly important to always know your teammates powers. First thing I always want to know is what tanks I have, so I know how to best utilize knockback to help them. If I have willpower and invuln tanks, I want to not only take care in my positioning, but also make sure they are taking care of theirs. If they corner pull (which is common in those sets), I want to get them to pull into the corner instead where I can better saturate their powers with bodies on the floor. Secondly, I look at my other blasters/defenders and their AOEs to see how much AOE I need to bring to get the job done. Third, I want to know if I have a -kb utilizing controller on the team. Lastly, I see if I have any typically AOE heavy Scrapper sets that may collide in style. If I have any problems with any of these, a simple PM takes care of things. If I have something like a tank or Scrapper that is doing a remarkable job working with me, a PM goes a long way there, too. 
I never back off with my AOEs with an Energy Blaster, provided that was the course of action the team needed, and with picking up Static Discharge out of the epics (or in this case Psychic Scream), the Energy Blaster has a substantial amount of AOE to contribute in both team and solo situations.
Energy Blast is beautiful. I love the sound effects, the graphics, and the overall feel.
But I'm getting frustrated, because I can't figure out how to use this powerset on a team without making a huge mess. The issue, of course, is the knockback. I spend more time positioning myself than actually shooting at stuff, and no matter where I'm standing things still go flying everywhere. I feel like I'm a huge hinderance to the team, even when I try to knock things down or into walls.
So what are the secrets of dealing with this set? Or are there any? I've teamed with Energy Blasters before and noted things didn't go flying all over, but was it just because they decided not to shoot as much?