DROP THE MIDS AND PLAY THE FRICKIN BUILD!
EXPERIANCE IT WITHOUT BEING A SCIENTIFIC GEEK THAT ONLY SEE's NUMBERS!
Thats my comment!
Ignore that guy, some people just don't get the whole 'politeness' thing.
Anyway, looking at the build, my first thought is that that's still gonna be expensive, even if it doesn't have purples. My second thought is 'what are you going to do before 50?' Those are secondary, though.
Mostly, I'd question your slotting priorities. You have a ton of recharge, end recovery, and regen, but no defense. On a shield tank, 31% defense with nobody in range of phalanx is going to get you killed if you try to actually tank on a large team. Unless you're specifically trying to build a scranker, I'd rethink some of your slotting and get the 14% more you need to softcap. Touch of death, mako's, blessing of the zephyr, steadfast 3%, etc. With your apparent budget, you should be able to get there without even taking any extra defense powers like weave/maneuvers/etc, and it will give you a truly ridiculous boost to survivability. Aid self by itself probably won't be enough, given how many attacks will be coming your way to potentially interrupt it.
The other thing is, why on earth did you skip shatter? It's one of the better attacks in the set. Even with a heck of a lot of recharge, bash and clobber is a bit light for the ST work, and shatter can help there. With some skill, shatter also makes a very good AoE attack. If you don't care about the 47 power, put shatter there instead (although I would prefer it earlier).
Finally, many choose to put membrane HOs into active defense at the top levels. Due to some quirks in the way the enhancement system works, those enhancements actually boost the defense debuff resistance the power offers, greatly improving the set's overall abilities in that area. Softcapped defense isn't nearly as good, after all, if its stripped away by the first roman to come along.
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
Quote:
Is this meant for PvP? I ask that because you have Taunt slotted for accuracy and took Focused Accuracy, when the accuracy in your actual attacks seems more than adequate for PvE. If it's a PvP build, I don't know what I am talking about, and you can ignore me.|
Originally Posted by KingsGambit
Hi all, I've not played a tanker before so I can't really compare numbers but I've been playing with a build I think could be pretty nice. It's a bit pricey but has no purples so is realistically achieveable. What do you think?
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I made some minor changes to your build that will make you a whole lot tougher while keeping most of its features intact. I reslotted Taunt, moved some slots around, and added some sets. Some will not be cheap - but you could pay for every change made by losing one of the LotG recharges, and this gets rid of one of them.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: War Mace
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(3), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(7), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(13), Aegis-ResDam:50(36), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40)
Level 1: Bash -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- EndRdx-I:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(3), LkGmblr-Def:50(7), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(13)
Level 4: True Grit -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(9), RctvArm-ResDam:40(15), Heal-I:50(36), Heal-I:50(45)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel:30(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(11)
Level 8: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:50(11), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(45), Mocking-Rchg:50(45)
Level 12: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(15)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(17)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(19), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(19), Numna-Heal:50(40), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), P'Shift-EndMod:50(21), P'Shift-End%:50(42)
Level 22: Build Up -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(23), RechRdx-I:50(23)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(25), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(25)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Acc-I:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), Oblit-Dmg:50(37)
Level 28: Clobber -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 30: Whirling Mace -- Acc-I:50(A), Oblit-Dmg:50(31), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(31), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(34), RctvArm-ResDam:40(34), Heal-I:50(34), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(46)
Level 35: Stimulant -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Acc-I:50(A), Oblit-Dmg:50(39), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 41: Aid Self -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(42), Heal-I:50(42)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 47: Laser Beam Eyes -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:40(48), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:40(48), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:40(48), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(50)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I:50(A), RgnTis-Regen+:30(50), P'Shift-End%:50(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
First of all, you have Phalanx Fighting set to 1 rather than 0, which makes it look like you have more defense than you do. You really have only 31% melee and ranged defense, not good for a tank that is almost entirely dependent on defense for survivability. As Muon said, you should really consider trying to soft-cap to as many positions as possible. For that, you'll at least need to pick up the Steadfast +def; the Fighting Pool is also a good idea. You can soft-cap a Shield tank without Weave, but it's more difficult and expensive.
You are also very light on your Mace attacks. IME, most most players take everything but either Pulverize or Jawbreaker, you've skipped both of them and Shatter. Shatter really is a must-have, IMO, it's a cone, and Mace's second most damaging attack after Clobber. I'd try to make room for at least one, if not two more Mace attacks.
Grant Cover provides some of SD's defense debuff resistance, so it probably should be included in your build. The power that most commonly gets skipped in SD is OWtS, though I'm planning on taking it on my Shield tank. Phalanx Fighting, Taunt, and One with the Shield are all currently overslotted. (As Heraclea mentioned, accuracy in Taunt is only useful for PvP.)
If you do decide to soft-cap defense, take a stab at another build and we can help you tweak it. It's difficult to propose a soft-capped build unless you know whether Weave is included or not.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Thank you all for the very helpful replies. I've taken on board a lot of what was said and reworked the above build quite a bit. It's not perfect but provides much more defence and includes two more attacks. It's still a little pricey but also cheaper than the above I'd estimate. I think it needs some tweaking, mostly on the power order but possibly slotting too. It's fun to play in the meantime and this gives me something to aim for!
Code:
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Quote:
That build looks a lot better. I'm still curious --- is this a PvP build? You still have Taunt slotted for accuracy rather than taunt duration, range, or recharge. You have Focused Accuracy. And you have Medicine pool, not slotted for interrupt. |
Originally Posted by KingsGambit
Thank you all for the very helpful replies. I've taken on board a lot of what was said and reworked the above build quite a bit. It's not perfect but provides much more defence and includes two more attacks. It's still a little pricey but also cheaper than the above I'd estimate. I think it needs some tweaking, mostly on the power order but possibly slotting too. It's fun to play in the meantime and this gives me something to aim for!
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I think you'd get more mileage out of Conserve Power and Physical Perfection, myself, and I'd drop the Medicine pool completely. Once you get soft capped, you won't need it; you will have very little need for One with the Shield, for that matter.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
I think my main problem is not really fully understanding the 45% defense thing. I understand that under normal circumstances, there's no tangible benefit to going higher, as enemies always have a 5% hit-chance. If that is the case, then does that mean that with a 45% defense already obtained, One With The Shield will have no tangible effect? Is that true across all archetypes?
Also specifically about Phalanx Fighting, having set it to 0 allies, it still seems to offer a 5% defense increase. Is that the case then, that it always offers 5% and additional defense when teamed allies are nearby?
Quote:
One with the Shield adds substantial resistance (base 30%) on top of an extra 20% defense. Now, under most circumstances 45% defense is enough because 45% is all you can ever have. When you are being hit by debuffs that reduce your defense (Romans and Praetorian robots do this a lot) you have a bit of a buffer to those effects. Defense above the 45% limit gives you a bit of a cushion against this. One with the Shield is useful chiefly in these situations as well.|
Originally Posted by KingsGambit
I think my main problem is not really fully understanding the 45% defense thing. I understand that under normal circumstances, there's no tangible benefit to going higher, as enemies always have a 5% hit-chance. If that is the case, then does that mean that with a 45% defense already obtained, One With The Shield will have no tangible effect? Is that true across all archetypes?
Also specifically about Phalanx Fighting, having set it to 0 allies, it still seems to offer a 5% defense increase. Is that the case then, that it always offers 5% and additional defense when teamed allies are nearby? |
You are right about Phalanx Fighting.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Quote:
Resistance is always useful for those times when you *do* get hit. BTW, the 5% HitChance is just for even-level minions, foes get rank and level bonuses that are unaffected by defense levels above 45%. And as Heraclea said, resistance is especially useful for those times when your defense is debuffed. |
Originally Posted by KingsGambit
I think my main problem is not really fully understanding the 45% defense thing. I understand that under normal circumstances, there's no tangible benefit to going higher, as enemies always have a 5% hit-chance. If that is the case, then does that mean that with a 45% defense already obtained, One With The Shield will have no tangible effect? Is that true across all archetypes?
Also specifically about Phalanx Fighting, having set it to 0 allies, it still seems to offer a 5% defense increase. Is that the case then, that it always offers 5% and additional defense when teamed allies are nearby? |
Since Phalanx Fighting and OwtS are highly situational, most Shield players don't slot them heavily. And as I mentioned in my earlier post, Grant Cover doesn't need much slotting either, but it is extremely useful because it gives defense debuff resistance.
I notice that you included a Karma -KB IO in the first build and the BotZ -KB in this one, which leads me to believe that you think Shields needs it. It doesn't; Active Defense will provide sufficient KB protection. If you want the third BotZ for the AoE defense, that's another story, though there are less expensive ways to get it than that particular IO.
I agree that CP and Physical Perfection would probably be the most useful epics, and that Aid Self will most likely be unneeded once you've soft-capped. However, if you decide to keep Aid Self, it needs to be slotted better. I'd recommend 2xInterrupt Red, 2xHeal, then Recharge and/or End Reduction to your preference.
I'd also strongly recommend that you 6-slot Build Up with Gaussian's. It'll give you a 2.5% def bonus to all positions which will make it considerably easier to soft-cap.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Yeah, if you're in a situation where you need Aid Self, you'll probably have mobs getting through your defenses somehow (unless you really want to bravely, bravely run a long ways away), so you'll not want it interrupted.
In all honesty for my Shield Tank, it was a toss up between Tough and Aid Self. I went with Tough, as it gives you a bit more reaction time if your defenses have been compromised (you can jump out of that mob of Romans, have longer to pop OWTS or an orange inspiration, etc.), but I did wish I could have both.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Slot 2 interrupt reductions in aid self and you won't get it interrupted often.
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Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Yeah, if you're in a situation where you need Aid Self, you'll probably have mobs getting through your defenses somehow (unless you really want to bravely, bravely run a long ways away), so you'll not want it interrupted.
In all honesty for my Shield Tank, it was a toss up between Tough and Aid Self. I went with Tough, as it gives you a bit more reaction time if your defenses have been compromised (you can jump out of that mob of Romans, have longer to pop OWTS or an orange inspiration, etc.), but I did wish I could have both. |
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Hi all, I've not played a tanker before so I can't really compare numbers but I've been playing with a build I think could be pretty nice. It's a bit pricey but has no purples so is realistically achieveable. What do you think?
The lvl 47 power isn't strictly necessary, it's just for pulling but absolutely non-essential. Potentially stealth or resuscitate for general utility? I found i had an abundance of slots which is quite rare normally! Would welcome any comments!