A few suggestions for you, then:
1) A Shield/Ice Tank. Good Controls, good AoE damage. Not exactly great ST damage, but that's what your team is for. Good at holding aggro, and you've got Shield Rush to start the fights! Side bonus: Since you don't have a damaging aggro-aura, you get to be able to use the sleep effect from Frozen Aura. At least, until your team joins in.
2) An Shield/Elec Tanker, for the reasons you mentioned.
3) An Elec/Stone Tanker, just because it's fun. Full of Smashy goodness and decent control, although you may want to pick up Tough to help deal with S/L damage.
4) An Invuln/SS Tanker, just because it's iconic and fun. Very sturdy, especially when surrounded. The Knockdown from the secondary is just great fun to watch, too. Rage will help with damage, and in turn, aggro-holding.
Just some ideas I'm throwing out there. You really can't go wrong when it comes to Tankers.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Main tanker for a static team... well, a Shield/* does come to mind... once you get your defenses soft capped, which is pretty easy to do with minimal IO slotting you should be highly durable. I will say that baby Shield (well, any defense set really) characters do struggle until they can get their defense into the 30's or higher so the low levels will be tough.
For a bit smoother ride from the start you may want to consider an Invuln tanker... it matures stronger defensively than the shield and is considerably stronger early. It does lack the offensive output of the Shield though. Invuln may not be what it was in issue 3, but out of the box it's probably one of the 3 toughest tankers... add some IO bonuses and it's second only to Granite Armor in toughness. Issue 13 saw some major buffs to the Invuln set... I've run nearly everything in the game with mine and never had any issues with survivability. Even exemped down to Positron levels it's still highly capable... probably about the best tanker available at that level.
What are your teammates going to be playing? That has some impact on what you choose; if your buddies are rolling Shield scrappers for example then a Shield tank is a no-brainer for stacking Grant Covers. If they're rolling buffers/debuffers that opens up the choices also. If they're all going to be playing blasters then you'll need to count on yourself for all your survivability.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I would say INV or Shield. INV is really a strong all around set and you should have the cash to IO him out (wink). Following CMA's guide on the S/L soft cap makes INV a true beast. I have my brand new Shield/Elec going for a couple days now and I am looking forward to seeing it mature.
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
It's funny how people are so much louder when they complain about nerfs then when they are happy about buffs. I remember hearing all the complaints when invuln was nerfed, but I don't remember hearing anything about the buffs. Or maybe that says more about my memory.
Anyhow, I have a level 1 invuln/mace tank languishing somewhere. I seem to recall that mace was buffed as well. Do those two sets play nicely together? Invuln is weak to psychic attacks, as I recall. And if invuln benefits from being in a crowd, then how well can it handle AV's?
I have no idea what my teammates will be playing.
Electric/stone sounds interesting. /stone has problems with recharge and endurance, and electric helps with both of those, right?
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
In my experience, Stone Melee has more problems with recharge than endurance. The attacks animate quickly but recharge slowly, but they hit hard as well. So yes, Electric Armor should help with recharging your Stone attacks and keeping your endurance up to use them.
One pointer for Shield Defense ATs is to allow Against All Odds saturate before using Shield Charge. You'll get a much bigger damage boost than if you used SC to ram into a mob from a distance.
Good luck!
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Originally Posted by peterpeter
It's funny how people are so much louder when they complain about nerfs then when they are happy about buffs. I remember hearing all the complaints when invuln was nerfed, but I don't remember hearing anything about the buffs. Or maybe that says more about my memory.
Anyhow, I have a level 1 invuln/mace tank languishing somewhere. I seem to recall that mace was buffed as well. Do those two sets play nicely together? Invuln is weak to psychic attacks, as I recall. And if invuln benefits from being in a crowd, then how well can it handle AV's? |
I loved my INV/Mace from level 1 all the way to 50. Mace got a very nice buff, and really hits pretty well and has nice AoE. You can handle a LOT.
Mother Mayhem I think gave me some trouble but that is about it as I recall. I have not had him on the STF but he did well on the ITF and Kahn.
Just follow CMA's guide, and prepare to feel what INV is supposed to feel like. You won't regret it.
Cheers
[B] GUARDIAN 50s:[/B] [B]Tank[/B]: Ice/Fire, Fire/Fire, DA/SS, Inv/WM, SD/Elec...[B]Scrap[/B]: BS/Reg, Spin/DA, DM/SD, Fire/WP, Claws/SR....[B]Troller[/B]: Ill/Rad, Fire/Kin...[B]Blaster[/B]: Fire/EM....[B]Defender[/B]: D3...[B]Brute[/B]: Elm/ElA...[B]EPIC[/B]: Widow, PB, Crab...CURRENTLY: 45 Stone/Stone Tank...38 AR/Rad Corr...21 Ice^3 Dom
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Remember that Electric is arguably the weakest protective set with roughly Fire Armor numbers and a slow recharging heal. If you can invest substantial +def bonuses it can get good but on straight SO's it struggles.|
Originally Posted by peterpeter
It's funny how people are so much louder when they complain about nerfs then when they are happy about buffs. I remember hearing all the complaints when invuln was nerfed, but I don't remember hearing anything about the buffs. Or maybe that says more about my memory.
Anyhow, I have a level 1 invuln/mace tank languishing somewhere. I seem to recall that mace was buffed as well. Do those two sets play nicely together? Invuln is weak to psychic attacks, as I recall. And if invuln benefits from being in a crowd, then how well can it handle AV's? I have no idea what my teammates will be playing. Electric/stone sounds interesting. /stone has problems with recharge and endurance, and electric helps with both of those, right? |
The psi hole on Invuln is actually pretty overrated... you only have a very few missions where Psi predominates so for the most part it's a non-issue. Also, building for the soft cap in defense will net you fairly significant positional defense as a byproduct; CMA has roughly 30% Ranged/25% AOE defense which applies to almost all psi attacks. That's on top of the 45% S/L/E/N defense and 35% F/C. If you end up facing significant Psi you can always pop a purple to hit the positional cap.
I've tanked Mother Mayhem and all the other Psi AV's without much trouble... both now and back in issue 3-4 when I actually had NEGATIVE 5% defense to it due to the Unyielding debuff... something that's now one with the Dodo.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I think I'm sold on invuln. I was never fond of the graphics on unyielding, but now I can turn them off. And it sounds like I'll be able to tank everything I need to, especially if I throw a little money into the build.
Now... what about a secondary? It looks like ice can lock down a sapper with one touch, not that sappers often live more than a nanosecond against a good team anyhow. Battle Axe and War Mace have choppy smashy fun built in. I haven't heard good things about energy lately. Fire could be fun. Super Strength is classic. Any advice? Again, damage is a secondary concern. Holding aggro and surviving aggro take precedence, so the knockdowns in axe and mace might be handy.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
Eh, I dunno if electric is actually *weaker* than fire - it's got almost 10% more S/L res and some psi res, and capped energy resist is more useful than capped fire res. The heal is about half as strong, true, but it's got some possible mitigation in end drain and a real tier 9. It might not actually be stronger, but I'm not sure if it's actually weaker either.
/threadjack
@MuonNeutrino
Student, Gamer, Altaholic, and future Astronomer.
This is what it means to be a tank!
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My experience with Invuln was that I could tank on Positron and Synapse Task forces when exemplared below my set bonuses, Tough, and Weave. One thing about Invulnerability is that Invincibility really rewards a difference in playstyle from squishies -- all tankers jump into danger, but Inv is significantly stronger when surrounded than when "pulling" from a distance. Dive right in!|
Originally Posted by peterpeter
I think I'm sold on invuln. I was never fond of the graphics on unyielding, but now I can turn them off. And it sounds like I'll be able to tank everything I need to, especially if I throw a little money into the build.
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Originally Posted by peterpeter
Now... what about a secondary? It looks like ice can lock down a sapper with one touch, not that sappers often live more than a nanosecond against a good team anyhow. Battle Axe and War Mace have choppy smashy fun built in. I haven't heard good things about energy lately. Fire could be fun. Super Strength is classic. Any advice? Again, damage is a secondary concern. Holding aggro and surviving aggro take precedence, so the knockdowns in axe and mace might be handy.
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The stock answer is, any of the ones you mention interest in would be fine. If you want to fight a lot of significantly higher-level stuff, the synergy between Rage and Invincibility both boosting your to-hit might weight your preference slightly toward Super Strength. But despite Foot Stomp being superb, Fiery Melee, Battle Axe and War Mace have better AoE, in approximately that order. As I understand it, not having played it, Ice has okay AoE, but the ST damage lags a lot in exchange for the greater control.
Once mature, you'll have enough durability that you won't particularly need mitigation from the secondary. I've read accounts of many very happy Inv/Fire tankers over the years. I like /Fire, although neither of my two high-level tankers using it are Inv. I'm currently enjoying the incessant knockdowns of a Battle Axe Tanker, but I don't think Inv needs that for safe Tanking.
If you're not taken with any particular concept, you could try out a few of the sets at low level and see what appeals to you. You can also see all the animations (and alternate ones, for SS) in the character creation screen, which might help.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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I'd definitely rank War Mace above Battle Axe for AoE. They're otherwise very similar, but the fact that Crowd Control can hit twice as many targets as Pendulum makes a significant difference.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
The stock answer is, any of the ones you mention interest in would be fine. If you want to fight a lot of significantly higher-level stuff, the synergy between Rage and Invincibility both boosting your to-hit might weight your preference slightly toward Super Strength. But despite Foot Stomp being superb, Fiery Melee, Battle Axe and War Mace have better AoE, in approximately that order. As I understand it, not having played it, Ice has okay AoE, but the ST damage lags a lot in exchange for the greater control.
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PeterPeter, I think you should consider staying with War Mace. Since the buffs it has improved considerably both in ST and AoE damage. Clobber has gone from an "everybody skips" to a "must have" attack; Crowd Control is now a great power, KDing up to 10 foes at a time. WM has significant damage mitigation from both stuns and knockdown, (no more KB!) and pesky minions like Sappers are easily dealt with using Clobber, which auto-stuns most minions and lts.
Give it a try!
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
But despite Foot Stomp being superb, Fiery Melee, Battle Axe and War Mace have better AoE, in approximately that order.
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
I'd definitely rank War Mace above Battle Axe for AoE. They're otherwise very similar, but the fact that Crowd Control can hit twice as many targets as Pendulum makes a significant difference.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Ahh, that explains it! I thought you were starting with FM as the best, since I've often seen them ranked that way.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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I don't think I would agree with that, Fire is #1 for AOE; possibly #2 behind Electric Melee. In the comparison of Mace/Axe you're right that Mace wins.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
I quite agree. I meant to imply fire->axe->mace in INCREASING order of AoE goodness, but I see that I wasn't clear.
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Looking at an Invuln tanker what secondary... well, the easy answer is probably "any of them". For AOE I'd go with Inv/Fire. For a bit more control while keeping solid ST damage there's Stone Melee and the awesomeness of Fault & Seismic Smash. Super Strength is the classic pairing; I've never played it though so I just know it theoretically.
The only two secondaries I'd probably avoid would be Dual Blades due to the focus on combos... you've other things to worry about than getting your combo done... and Ice Melee simply because of the low damage. Ice has advantages but it does lack damage.
Whatever way you go you should have a tank that can handle anything you may throw at it.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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Originally Posted by peterpeter
Any advice? Again, damage is a secondary concern. Holding aggro and surviving aggro take precedence, so the knockdowns in axe and mace might be handy.
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Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Looking at an Invuln tanker what secondary... well, the easy answer is probably "any of them".
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I will make a suggestion, though. My invuln took the Medicine pool so he could have a self-heal (besides Dull Pain). Nowadays, Dark Melee is available for tanks which has both a self heal and a self +END power. I have a dark/dark tank and having a self heal as part of your attack chain is really effective.
An alternate suggestion would be: pick a set that you think is FUN. I picked energy melee for one reason; I had written his backstory and it made conceptual sense. On the other hand, I know people who refused to ever play that set because it had 'pink pom-poms'. If you think some secondaries are downright ugly and others look really cool, let that be a major factor in your decision.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Well, Fiery melee is great, no doubt. But after Fire Sword Circle and Combustion, there's downtime unless you use Breath of Fire, which, if you take the power, isn't that great.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
I don't think I would agree with that, Fire is #1 for AOE; possibly #2 behind Electric Melee. In the comparison of Mace/Axe you're right that Mace wins.
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Axe has the ability to alllmost continuously chain Pendulum (albeit limited to five targets), Whirling Axe, and Cleave...without global recharge. Add in global recharge and pretty soon it's continuous. Cleave is a narrow attack like Breath of Fire, but most builds would take it, I think, and it does a ton of damage.
I guess I can't claim to have compared damage output per hour, so you're probably right. But the ability to constantly chain AoEs is very attractive on Axe and Mace.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
inv/dm would be my choice for a main battle tank if invuln/ is goin to be your primary.
Siphon life's heal can patch up most damage that gets through invinc. allowing you to save dull pain for when you really need it.
At least in my play xp inv/ was a little end heavy as well. Dark melee's +damage and +endurance attacks help fill other holes in the set as well.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Right now I'm torn between mace and DM, I think. Mace has a lot of AoE, which spreads the punchvoke around, but DM does have some nice utility powers, like the self-heal. All the knockaround from mace might be just as good a mitigation as a self-heal, though, and it helps everyone, not just me. Hmmmmm....
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
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Of the two I'd be tempted to go Mace; DM does have nice utility but the weak AOE drives me nuts trying to level one. The nice thing about Invuln nowadays is it doesn't need any help from the secondary for survival. And of course the novelty factor since Mace is something I've never rolled up.
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Originally Posted by peterpeter
Right now I'm torn between mace and DM, I think. Mace has a lot of AoE, which spreads the punchvoke around, but DM does have some nice utility powers, like the self-heal. All the knockaround from mace might be just as good a mitigation as a self-heal, though, and it helps everyone, not just me. Hmmmmm....
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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I'm planning to roll a new tank in the new year. I have very little experience with the AT. I'm wondering what powersets would suit me best. I plan to play as the lead tank for a static group, so I'll never be solo. I don't plan to neglect my secondary, but I don't need to be a major damage dealer either. I do need to be able to take the alpha, pull aggro, and survive. Some of that will be skill of course, but I'd like powersets that support that job, not make it more challenging.
I'm not worried about the toughest stuff in the game, like the STF, but I would like to be able to survive most anything that gets thrown at me on the way to 50. I know every tank has some kryptonite, but I'd like mine to be manageable. I don't want to turn into a squishy for an entire task force because we're going up against a faction that I just can't handle.
I was thinking about fire/dark, because I like the idea of the double self heals and double endurance recovery powers, but fire seems less durable than most and the extra damage isn't a good trade-off for me.
Shield/Electric looks fun. I have an electric/shield scrapper on test. Lightning rod is a good way to tell the team which mob you're attacking next! In fact, I was thinking of recreating that character on live as a scrapper or brute when GR arrives, so I'm not sure that I want to use those powers for my tank.
I've already played a DA scrapper to 50 and I'd like to try something new. I'm not sure I can stand the speed of a stone tank. I'm also underwhelmed by the graphics. I've heard that willpower has trouble holding aggro, and invuln isn't what it used to be. Ice doesn't really excite me, but I'm willing to be persuaded. I don't know anything about electric armor.
Thank you for your advice!
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