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I'd probably just take Melt Armor rather than Fire Blast because Fire Blast is going to do you virtually no good.|
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
I may take Melt Armor instead of Breath of Fire but that doesnt matter too much.
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| I also may respec Tough in but right now I want to see how powerful I can be with IOs without Fighting, Manuevers, CJ or such things. How would you IO this build if you had to get these powers |
Perma-DP is pretty much a must but Perma-Hasten isn't really all that great, especially when compared to what you could manage if you're willing to allow for a ~10 second downtime in exchange for a host of defense.
By the way, have you looked into getting Mids' Hero Planner? Might make it easier if you want to ever actually post a build rather than a list of powers. You might want to try messing around with it a bit yourself to see what you can come up with yourself rather than just asking other people to give you a build that fulfills your rather stringent requirements.
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I can easily fit in combat jumping. I can get that instead of Breath of Fire. And I really dont have the knowledge of IO sets and the build planner. Crap takes too long anyway and it never lets me back up when I make a mistake. I was hoping there was a Regen build without Fighting already made. Should have expected it though. People seem to be playing a different game where they dont give a rats *** about concept and get boring crap simply cause of IOs. "Yeah I am a Sr Brute but I will get Weave and Manuevers even though I already have304959 defense powers" What dude ??? Boring. |
Originally Posted by Umbral
I'd probably just take Melt Armor rather than Fire Blast because Fire Blast is going to do you virtually no good.
With no +def powers (and thereby no LotG +rech IOs), you're not going to be particularly resilient since virtually all damage is going to be getting through to you. You'd be only slightly more survivable than a Fire/Regen with SOs and you'd also be devoting a lot more animation time to using your click powers. Perma-DP is pretty much a must but Perma-Hasten isn't really all that great, especially when compared to what you could manage if you're willing to allow for a ~10 second downtime in exchange for a host of defense. By the way, have you looked into getting Mids' Hero Planner? Might make it easier if you want to ever actually post a build rather than a list of powers. You might want to try messing around with it a bit yourself to see what you can come up with yourself rather than just asking other people to give you a build that fulfills your rather stringent requirements. |
I just assume that if Reslience and CJ are all I have, I would have to focus on recharge. I aint selling out my concept like other losers.
Me: So why didnt you get Fly like you wanted
Loser: Had to get Tough and Weave so I can slot IOs even though Invulnerbility has a ridiculous amount of SL resist already
Me: So all your powers do exactly the same thing ? Damn that sucks.
Play how you want, no one is telling you what you have to do. People here on the Scrapper boards usually go for extreme survival and very few people go for concept.
Maybe for future reference if you want a more specific answer geared towards making a whatever you want super hero then you should be less vague.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Yeah looked up a few builds for Regen, all the same with tough and such so letting off a little steam|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Play how you want, no one is telling you what you have to do. People here on the Scrapper boards usually go for extreme survival and very few people go for concept.
Maybe for future reference if you want a more specific answer geared towards making a whatever you want super hero then you should be less vague. |
You are right. People have the right to play like losers. Now tell me why the piss would a man who can wield fire swords from his damn hands and ignite people not be able to shoot people with Fire ? Doesnt make sense that he shouldnt right ? You think if you imagined being a Fire Super Hero , you would only visualize yourself meleeing people with Fire and not shooting Fire Balls and Fire Waves at them ? Oh yeah , that doesnt matter IOs and crap. Gotta get Manuevers instead of Fire Ball so I can be good good good . Because we all know Manuevers is such a fun power
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And, of course, this conversation is held within the confines of the situation in which you are lying on the floor dead and the "loser" is standing over your corpse waiting for you to finish making another wakie because his build was substantially more survivable than yours.|
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
I just assume that if Reslience and CJ are all I have, I would have to focus on recharge. I aint selling out my concept like other losers.
Me: So why didnt you get Fly like you wanted Loser: Had to get Tough and Weave so I can slot IOs even though Invulnerbility has a ridiculous amount of SL resist already Me: So all your powers do exactly the same thing ? Damn that sucks. |
Comically, enough, it's not hard to get Flight because it's so easy to switch it out for Leaping (Hover + Flight is pretty much the exact equivalent of CJ + Leaping), so I don't think I'd ever find someone who was complaining that they'd have to get rid of Flight for Fighting.
If you're going to be going for concept over effectiveness, don't complain when everyone tells you you're not as effective as you could be. Some of us don't really care as much about concept as you (or are willing to modify our concept to allow for certain choices that are more effective), and, interestingly enough, it doesn't really behoove you to attempt to insult our playstyle when you are asking us to help you out because you're incapable of operating within the system on your own.
Suffice it to say that, if you don't like what everyone is telling you about how to be most effective, don't complain when they tell you that the explicit reason that you're going to be less effective than you want is your recalcitrance to accept that strict adherence to concept will oftentimes inhibit performance. Learn to play around with the numbers on your own if you don't like what we're telling you and learn it yourself. We're not forcing you to play our way, much less forcing you to abandon your concept in the face of gaining the survivability you seem to be demanding. It's not our fault that we say you're an idiot when you ask us to jump up and touch the sky while wearing concrete blocks on our feet.
Wow..Umbral. Excellent response.
If that isn't a prime example of a Fatality the likes of Mortal Kombat....I don't know what is.
;-)
Me-"Hey who's head is that on the floor?"
Loser#1-"Ah..some guy...Dark Age something."
Loser#2-"Wow. Kid was absolutely lobotomized."
To New Dark Age, I know alot folks who do not take the fighting pool route with Regen and they do not face plant all the time. It comes down to understanding how your powers work and what your powers can't do. With FM, you have a great chance of not face planting all the time. Good luck with your idea.
BTW, I'm playing an /INV scrapper without the fighting pool and I can handle alot things in the game. It's having fun that all that matters.
<---- Looks up all his scrappers... hmmmmm all seems to have a common trend... boxing-tough-weave...
I am one to come up with a concept around a build...
Guess that lands me in a "Loser" category... gosh what am I to do...
Since we are in the Fire/Regen topic here, how are you doing in PvP with yours Santorican?
I took my Katana/Regen built for PvE in RV a couple of days ago and has been stuck there. I'm actually thinking of putting a PvP build for him but I am not sure where to go with that.
Maybe you could give me a few pointers... 
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Sign me up, but I propose "Scrapper Sellout Losers" since we're not JUST losers; we also sold out our concepts.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
Scrapper losers unite!
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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I'm meh, its a steep learning curve but I'm not dying as often as before lol. All I know is that PvE and PvP are two completely different games. |
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Since we are in the Fire/Regen topic here, how are you doing in PvP with yours Santorican?
I took my Katana/Regen built for PvE in RV a couple of days ago and has been stuck there. I'm actually thinking of putting a PvP build for him but I am not sure where to go with that. Maybe you could give me a few pointers... |
In PvP its primary focus for regen is recharge, regeneration, recovery, +hp bonuses. You can't get perma anything in PvP (you can but you'll need an exponential more in set bonuses to get permanent dull pain or hasten) so you'll shoot for 70% recharge, as much of everything else you can muster. Also To-hit is a must. Post up a build and I'll see if I can help any lol.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
I have no idea where people like the OP get the idea that concept and performance are somehow at odds with each other. Such people are at a loss to explain why every single one of my characters strictly adheres to concept yet has extremely high-performance and well-designed builds. I'm proof that there's zero difference between so-called "concept" builds and "min-max" builds. There is only incompetence at 1) creativity or 2) build design which causes you to be unable to fufill both goals at once.
I've even got better concepts out of indulging the minmaxer in me. For a long time I wanted to play a Rad/Sonic defender, but the lack of a solid concept and name held me back. I made up some stuff about a post-apocalyptic punk rocker with radioactive powers, but it felt very weak to me. Then I realized that I could portray a Rad/Sonic defender as a hero with time and space manipulation powers. AM = speed up time, LR = slow down time, EMP = time stop. Her sonic attacks were reality-warping energy blasts that weakened the molecular structure of matter and rendering it vulnerable to further attack. By warping the structure of local space-time she could cause enemy attacks to miss. If something went wrong, she could jump back several instants in time to correct the mistake, causing wounds to "heal" and defeated allies to rise again and fight. I took SS and teleport for concept, which also let me slot many blessings of the zephyr for ranged defense. The resulting character is probably one of the most fun and powerful I've ever played.
It's funny how the OP choses to whine about people who don't strictly adhere to concept. It's even funnier how the OP gets all high and mighty after selling out his concept and rerolling as Fire/Regen. I'd love to hear what the rationale for that is. Most comic-book superheroes don't have much of a theme, and their powers wax and wane to the whims of plot and changing writers. Superman is probably the worst offender. Super speed, super strength, super toughness, flight, super jumping, X-ray vision... I see no theme but powergaming. Ironically, due to legions of copycat characters over the decades Inv/SS is now considered a "high-concept" build for no reason other than that the biggest munchkin of all time used it.
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They are at odds with each other because there is a 24 power limit. I usually build solely concept characters and have to build the best with what I have. I usually have to skip something like Tough or weave or such. Truth is because of IOs builds have been getting tighter and more boring. All guides and builds that have been appearing have virtually no felixiblity. "You want to reach the soft cap, you need CJ , Manuevers, Tough Weave". lol ok dude. Your secondary set should be enough. |
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
I have no idea where people like the OP get the idea that concept and performance are somehow at odds with each other. Such people are at a loss to explain why every single one of my characters strictly adheres to concept yet has extremely high-performance and well-designed builds. I'm proof that there's zero difference between so-called "concept" builds and "min-max" builds. There is only incompetence at 1) creativity or 2) build design which causes you to be unable to fufill both goals at once.
I've even got better concepts out of indulging the minmaxer in me. For a long time I wanted to play a Rad/Sonic defender, but the lack of a solid concept and name held me back. I made up some stuff about a post-apocalyptic punk rocker with radioactive powers, but it felt very weak to me. Then I realized that I could portray a Rad/Sonic defender as a hero with time and space manipulation powers. AM = speed up time, LR = slow down time, EMP = time stop. Her sonic attacks were reality-warping energy blasts that weakened the molecular structure of matter and rendering it vulnerable to further attack. By warping the structure of local space-time she could cause enemy attacks to miss. If something went wrong, she could jump back several instants in time to correct the mistake, causing wounds to "heal" and defeated allies to rise again and fight. I took SS and teleport for concept, which also let me slot many blessings of the zephyr for ranged defense. The resulting character is probably one of the most fun and powerful I've ever played. It's funny how the OP choses to whine about people who don't strictly adhere to concept. It's even funnier how the OP gets all high and mighty after selling out his concept and rerolling as Fire/Regen. I'd love to hear what the rationale for that is. Most comic-book superheroes don't have much of a theme, and their powers wax and wane to the whims of plot and changing writers. Superman is probably the worst offender. Super speed, super strength, super toughness, flight, super jumping, X-ray vision... I see no theme but powergaming. Ironically, due to legions of copycat characters over the decades Inv/SS is now considered a "high-concept" build for no reason other than that the biggest munchkin of all time used it. |
Fire/Regen, Fire/Invul, Fire/WP and Fire/Fire all fit the concept well so it doesnt matter. It is just FA sucks that bad. It aint the same as a loser who picks Manuevers over Dark Mastery even though he has 3 other toggles which do the exact same thing.
Doesnt anyone ever build for fun anymore? And please dont give me that "fun is subjective" crap. Every build I post is met with comments like " You need this or that " none of which would really have been a big deal before IOs .It is almost as if they no long care about making a Super Hero but just want to fight the game itself. Whatever floats your boat lol. Still searching for the Regen build.
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Of course, it's also not the same as some loser who keeps ******** that people that building intelligently are losers because he doesn't understand the math that's actually involved in the decision. If you want to ***** about the optimization choices that other people have made (and recommended you take so that you'd actually achieve the performance you want), look at the ******* system and attempt to learn it before you immediately abandon all notion of the recommendations we're giving you ever being grounded in intelligence rather than rote repetition.|
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Fire/Regen, Fire/Invul, Fire/WP and Fire/Fire all fit the concept well so it doesnt matter. It is just FA sucks that bad. It aint the same as a loser who picks Manuevers over Dark Mastery even though he has 3 other toggles which do the same thing.
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| Doesnt anyone ever build for fun anymore? And please dont give me that "fun is subjective" crap. It is almost as if they no long care about making a Super Hero but just want to fight the game itself. Whatever floats your boat lol |
You mentioned wanting to run at +3/x6 in your previous thread and, when we told you that you would need to pack in the defense, you ran away whining and screaming. Now that we're still telling you the same thing, you're now insulting us because you don't have a ******* clue about what the hell we're talking about or why we're recommending certain courses of action beyond the fact that Maneuvers gives you defense.
Please, if you want to build for concept, build for concept, realize you're not going to be as badass as you could possibly be, and quit attempting to insult us here (seeing as it's a rather lackluster attempt to insult us when you don't even have a clue what you're talking about in the first place and can only come up with calling us "losers" for being good at something; very "high school" of you).
If you want to build for effectiveness, you may need to realize that you're not going to get your concept down on the first try. You're probably going to have to make some sacrifices, most of which are probably pretty easy to modify your concept to account for anyways, but you will get a character that laughs in the face of overwhelming evil because he's just that awesome. You'll also want to actually start learning the system so you're not just recreating what we tell you from rote, unless you're okay with being left behind whenever anything changes.
No matter which option you go with, quit attempting to make it seem like you've got the "superior" or "more pure" playstyle and play around with Mids' a bit so you don't seem like such a glorious dumb-*** trying to get the people that have a skill you don't have to do all of the work for you.
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My all SOed out 41 Spines/Regen does pretty will on +3 for 4 people. His damage sucks though and he hasnt a single IO currently and no Fighiting. Only problems is I have to break occassionally for lack of IH and Dull Pain being down. So I am pretty sure my Fire Scrap who has greater damage does not need Tough or Manuevers or. whatever.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
Of course, it's also not the same as some loser who keeps ******** that people that building intelligently are losers because he doesn't understand the math that's actually involved in the decision. If you want to ***** about the optimization choices that other people have made (and recommended you take so that you'd actually achieve the performance you want), look at the ******* system and attempt to learn it before you immediately abandon all notion of the recommendations we're giving you ever being grounded in intelligence rather than rote repetition.
Well, first off, I'm pretty sure that most of the min/maxer's would actually agree that generating optimized builds is fun, albeit a completely different kind of fun. We realize that we're playing a game that uses superheroes as the mechanism to achieve the fantastic. We focus on the "game" aspect more than the "superhero" aspect, because, at least to people like me, playing the game is the fun part; the superheroes are just a tool to enjoy it. You, on the other hand, focus almost entirely on the "superhero" aspect and then ***** about the "game" part interfering with what you think your superhero should be. You don't get to say "**** the game, I'm making the superhero I want," and then immediately ***** about the superhero you made not performing to the level that you wanted it to. You mentioned wanting to run at +3/x6 in your previous thread and, when we told you that you would need to pack in the defense, you ran away whining and screaming. Now that we're still telling you the same thing, you're now insulting us because you don't have a ******* clue about what the hell we're talking about or why we're recommending certain courses of action beyond the fact that Maneuvers gives you defense. Please, if you want to build for concept, build for concept, realize you're not going to be as badass as you could possibly be, and quit attempting to insult us here (seeing as it's a rather lackluster attempt to insult us when you don't even have a clue what you're talking about in the first place and can only come up with calling us "losers" for being good at something; very "high school" of you). If you want to build for effectiveness, you may need to realize that you're not going to get your concept down on the first try. You're probably going to have to make some sacrifices, most of which are probably pretty easy to modify your concept to account for anyways, but you will get a character that laughs in the face of overwhelming evil because he's just that awesome. You'll also want to actually start learning the system so you're not just recreating what we tell you from rote, unless you're okay with being left behind whenever anything changes. No matter which option you go with, quit attempting to make it seem like you've got the "superior" or "more pure" playstyle and play around with Mids' a bit so you don't seem like such a glorious dumb-*** trying to get the people that have a skill you don't have to do all of the work for you. |
Also just relax, I am not serious about anyone being a loser or whatever. The way people are building is the inevitable result of game design. Sucks in my opinion becuse the game is forcing players into an arms race. If I do build conceptually then I will gimp myself when compared to other characters. If I do not and build for effectiveness then I sell out my concept by making a boring character and undermine the very reason I am playing the game in the first place.
I'm perfectly able to build for effectiveness and concept.
I think thats at least partially attributable to not being a complete moron, though.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
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Negative repped for being a putz and then telling people to "just relax".
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Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Also just relax, I am not serious about anyone being a loser or whatever.
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Good for you. It is impossible though to make a Fire/Regen build with Flight (concept), 3 Fighting powers(effectiveness advised by everyone here) , Hasten (effectiveness), 3 Blaze Mastery powers(concept) and 3 Fitness powers(effectiveness) without skipping important powers in your primary and secondary. I would have to drop Fire Sword Circle which would give me no AOE until lvl 47 and Resilience or I could probably not get Weave in which case I am not sure Tough alone is worth it since I wont have Resilence to stack with it. If you can use your above average intellect to make such a build let me know and I will recognize your superior intelligence or hacking skills. Otherwise realize that sacrifices of one side need to be made, either concept or effectiveness.|
Originally Posted by Silas
I'm perfectly able to build for effectiveness and concept.
I think thats at least partially attributable to not being a complete moron, though. |
There are 2 builds allowed but the second once was going to be designed for PvP which requires perception and probably a Phase.
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Whatever
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Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
Negative repped for being a putz and then telling people to "just relax".
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You can't have 36 powers, its a game limitation. Get over it, adapt and improvise. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Whether you're working with inventions or concept you will have to make sacrifices, the game's mechanics work that way, lose a little here gain some here and if you don't like that sorry Charlie thats just how things work.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Don't ask for advice and help, if you have no other intention then to berate and mock those who offer it.
Your lack of tact and discipline is a tragedy.
Don't I know you???
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Why would you take resilience if your not gonna take tough. |
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
Good for you. It is impossible though to make a Fire/Regen build with Flight (concept), 3 Fighting powers(effectiveness advised by everyone here) , Hasten (effectiveness), 3 Blaze Mastery powers(concept) and 3 Fitness powers(effectiveness) without skipping important powers in your primary and secondary. I would have to drop Fire Sword Circle which would give me no AOE until lvl 47 and Resilience or I could probably not get Weave in which case I am not sure Tough alone is worth it since I wont have Resilence to stack with it. If you can use your above average intellect to make such a build let me know and I will recognize your superior intelligence or hacking skills. Otherwise realize that sacrifices of one side need to be made, either concept or effectiveness.
There are 2 builds allowed but the second once was going to be designed for PvP which requires perception and probably a Phase. |
For the piddly resists or the additional stun protection?
Are you even listening to yourself?
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Okay okay okay. I was reading through this post and saw this and would like to put my two cents in. My main, Rendezvous, is a Fire/Super Reflexes scrapper. I roleplay with him, and my concept with him is one of the most enjoyable things about him that drives me to play him for the years (since fire was proliferated) I have had him. BUT...|
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
They are at odds with each other because there is a 24 power limit. I usually build solely concept characters and have to build the best with what I have. I usually have to skip something like Tough or weave or such. Truth is because of IOs builds have been getting tighter and more boring. All guides and builds that have been appearing have virtually no felixiblity. "You want to reach the soft cap, you need CJ , Manuevers, Tough Weave". lol ok dude. Your secondary set should be enough.
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Super Reflexes does not reach the soft-cap based on only the secondary. Its just impossible. If your able to do so without any extra pool powers or IO investment, I'd give you all the influence I have.
Now, for concept (excuse the tangent guys =] ) I wanted him to avoid as much as possible. That requires the softcap, which for me was attainable by the usage of tough, weave, and combat jumping. So if your saying that my secondary should be enough, I have to say your wrong.
Plus, what fun is concept if your face down on the floor all the time?
Rendezvous Fire/SR Scrapper 50 (Main), Sole Savior Kat/WP scrapper 50, Papillon Noir DM/SR Stalker 50
Cascavela NW 50
I apologize for posting too many questions about possible builds I want to make but my previous thread about Fire Aura made me decide it just isnt worth it. I will most likely reroll Warsun into a Fire/regen.
This build is a PvE AOE build I just want to know what is the best path to go with IOs when not having the Fighting Pool or any other protection power. I assume Recharge is the priority and I wish to have perma Hasten and Perma Dull Pain.
FIRE MELEE
Fire Sword
Cremate
Build UP
Fire Sword Circle
Breath of Fire
Incinerate
Greater Fire Sword
REGENERATION
Fast Healing
Construction
Dull Pain
Intergration
Quick Recovery
Instant Healing
Mog
Resilience
FLIGHT
Air Superiority
Fly
SPEED
Hasten
FITNESS
Swift
Health
Stamina
BLAZE
Char
Fire Ball
Fire Blast
I may take Melt Armor instead of Breath of Fire but that doesnt matter too much. I also may respec Tough in but right now I want to see how powerful I can be with IOs without Fighting, Manuevers, CJ or such things. How would you IO this build if you had to get these powers ?
Thanks for your help.