The idea of Blasters being so easy to kill is that we sacrifice our survivability for increased damage output. The question of whether we deal enough damage to make it worthwhile does get debated, however at this point any increase in Blaster survivability would mean a decrease in damage output.
Anyway, how could we be made less squishy? The only way I can think of would be giving us more HP, and/or adding protection to Defiance.
BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.
The thing is that, even with the ability to buy good enhancements to make your blaster less squishy, they are still very squishy... I mean I remember that I use to go through missions after missions before now with out dieing once, but since lately it's like they've gotten more and more squishy.. I mean I understand they sacraficed good def for being powerhouses.. but it shouldn't mean that they become so easy to kill.
A Fire/Fire/Fire blaster built right is....ungodly awesomely powerful. A friend actually BROKE one of my AE arcs, her character was so powerful. It's set so the custom enemies only spawn (or used to, can't remember if I changed it...) at LT level and above. It was meant to be challenging. Most people struggled with the mission; she carved a swathe of robotic destruction through them.
Although that doesn't mean I don't want a Blast/Shields AT. I would love to have a Dual Pistols/SR character, or an Energy Blast/Invul or...the lsit goes on.
I still think it IS balanceable. But I dont know if it could ever happen.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Well, first thing, Blasters have already been made tougher than they originally were by having their base hit points increased to their current value from back when (I6? 7?), so it's not like they have never been made tougher than they were at release.|
Originally Posted by States
This is a Request and a Plead..
But I've been playing a Fire/Fire Blaster since the start, and up until now. I've noticed how Squishy Blasters are.. and I have a really big request. And that be to make Blasters Tougher? |
Secondly, Blasters' primary contributor to survivability is operating as an indirect reduction in damage by reducing the time exposed to danger. In simpler terms, killing stuff is how you survive. Your secondary survivability tool is mez effects, but you've sacrificed that option by going with a pure damage powerset combination. It's not the fault of the AT that you chose a powerset combination that doesn't mitigate incoming damage. I've seen a number of quite hardy blasters that could remain in a fight for quite a long time because of their powerset combination and the incredible control effects that it afforded them.
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And don't forget Defiance 2.0 - being able to (partially) attack while mezzed is a help. |
Originally Posted by Umbral
Well, first thing, Blasters have already been made tougher than they originally were by having their base hit points increased to their current value from back when (I6? 7?), so it's not like they have never been made tougher than they were at release.
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Still, making blasters "less squishy" overall generally means they'd have something else taken away in return - and what blasters have is "Damage, damage, and more damage." So, your options really are IOs, purples, teammates and potetially pool powers to help a little.
As others have intoned, perhaps it's a problem with your build or playstyle. Maybe ask for advice in the Blaster forums?
All i know is that my Fire/En, who doesn't have much in the way of sets, survives just fine. True, i only solo on basic difficulty. I'm not taking on +4/x8, and i do use a lot of inspirations, but i survive fine.
Also, playstyle wise, target and eliminate the member of the group who'll give you the most trouble first. Use some means of flight to stay out of harm's way (most long ranged attacks do less damage and have less mez effect than a melee attack). Your secondary should be used situationally, and not as your opening attacks (unless you're built for melee defense like a good Blapper).
And chain your attacks to take advantage of your defiance buffs! If you use any IO sets at all, build for recharge!
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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This.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
As others have intoned, perhaps it's a problem with your build or playstyle. Maybe ask for advice in the Blaster forums?
All i know is that my Fire/En, who doesn't have much in the way of sets, survives just fine. True, i only solo on basic difficulty. I'm not taking on +4/x8, and i do use a lot of inspirations, but i survive fine. Also, playstyle wise, target and eliminate the member of the group who'll give you the most trouble first. Use some means of flight to stay out of harm's way (most long ranged attacks do less damage and have less mez effect than a melee attack). Your secondary should be used situationally, and not as your opening attacks (unless you're built for melee defense like a good Blapper). And chain your attacks to take advantage of your defiance buffs! If you use any IO sets at all, build for recharge! |
If you have been playing a blaster for a while (i.e., since before the change to HP or at least the changes to Defiance), then you should already be aware that Blasters are not all that squishy compared to where they were.
OTOH, if playing one for a while means that you have finally gotten one up above the mid-30s, then you have now run into the paradigm shift that comes with levelling up a Blaster - ungodly amounts of pure damage need to be used with at least a modicum of strategy once you start against foes with mezzes that are no longer "one shottable".
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
nah Dark Sunstar is my lvl 50 Fire/Fire blaster, I've had her since Issue 3.. And for awhile I could solo missions on my own, and now it's like I can barely go through a nice mission on my own without getting killed once or twice in the mean while..
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Considering that there haven't been any chances to the game that have made baseline play either the enemies harder or Blasters weaker, I'm going to have to go with the basic party line that it's all in your head. Either you suck more now than you did than or it's simply an observation bias.
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Originally Posted by States
nah Dark Sunstar is my lvl 50 Fire/Fire blaster, I've had her since Issue 3.. And for awhile I could solo missions on my own, and now it's like I can barely go through a nice mission on my own without getting killed once or twice in the mean while..
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Actually I suspect the difficulty is that you've cranked the difficulty up to high. The new difficulty tools are awesome but most Blasters need to stay on the lower end of the spectrum.
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But then they wouldnt be Blasters. Personally, I enjoy my Blaster as she stands, and her alter-Blapper personality as well, but to my way of thinking my Corruptor was more what I would have preferred in a Blaster. But if you really want to be a Hero who Blasts but can stay up on his/her own; perhaps the less damage dealing Defender would be to your liking. I know it's not a perfect solution, and the better one would be to build around survivability through Pools, Ancillaries, and IO Sets, but thought I would chime in with another twist on the subject.
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Originally Posted by States
This is a Request and a Plead..
But I've been playing a Fire/Fire Blaster since the start, and up until now. I've noticed how Squishy Blasters are.. and I have a really big request. And that be to make Blasters Tougher? |
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
Check two things; Difficulty settings (You can maybe get away with x2, especially if on -1, but no higher, unless you're lethal) and what mobs you are fighting. Some mobs are blaster death, in the same way Carnies are the bane of anything melee based, VG slaughter res armour tanks/blaster, etc etc.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Eh? Especially Fire/Fire will have a field day at -1x3, though I have bosses turned off in my missions, so I may be biassed. Frankly, by far the BIGGEST problem for Blasters are bosses. The typical Blaster strategy is to kill fast and kill before you are killed. You really can't do that with bosses, because they WILL outlast you in a fair fight, which makes things go from tricky to hard to hair-pullingly infuriating, to flatout not fun. Bosses excised and large spawns to wield Blaster AoEs against does make for a pretty good pace, but it also makes for a minefield, as large spawns are deadly if you can't bypass them fast.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Check two things; Difficulty settings (You can maybe get away with x2, especially if on -1, but no higher, unless you're lethal) and what mobs you are fighting. Some mobs are blaster death, in the same way Carnies are the bane of anything melee based, VG slaughter res armour tanks/blaster, etc etc.
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I've always felt that a key problem with Blasters is their lack of any sort of protection beyond almost-Scrapper hit points. Epic pools do mitigate this, but the key problem with Epic pools is they come too frikkin' late, specifically far later than you actually need them. To remedy this without suggesting wide-scale rebalancing of any ATs, I recently came up with the not-all-original but quite simplistic idea to:
Make all Epic pools unlock at level 30 instead of level 40. We can then stagger each power tier one level down the line, say 32, 35 and 38. I know Epics were introduced to give people something new to take 40+ back during I2, to answer all the questions of I1, but I feel that making them available earlier would give us Epic utility before it becomes so late it's irrelevant, and allow us more flexibility in our builds. We get regular pools early on, and they unlock fully buy level 20, after which we are free to experiment. Why not do the same for Epics?
Most ATs have things in their epics that are nice, but not terribly vital to their survival, perks and eccentricities, if you will. But for all the ATs I've played, Blasters are the only AT that has powers in their Epics that feel like they should have been in their own powersets. So, rather than offering tweaks to the AT or shuffling of the secondaries, I offer that we open Epics sooner, so that we can enjoy their benefit for more of the game. It would help Blasters transition a little easier, and it would make the 30s a little more fun, as that's when power choice typically dries up as you run out of powerset powers you want.
How about it?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Sounds like a not bad idea. You still end up with the same results, just staggered at more palatable levels.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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my main complaint here isnt that blaster are squishy i can live with them just the way they are, what i hate is that scrappers do more damage and can be built to survive almost as well *** a tank, yes i know blasters have a range while scrappers dont but come on most combat isnt out of range half the time anyway.
what i think it should have been is having a few defenseive power in their secondaryies, i mean all da blaster secondaries are custom anyway, but half of them are full of stuff that is not of any use.
so i say give give da blaster scondaries a slight rework and put some defenses in there that would balence them with scrapper without haveing to alter dam output.
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/Cottage Rule Slaughter|
Originally Posted by Sqeak
my main complaint here isnt that blaster are squishy i can live with them just the way they are, what i hate is that scrappers do more damage and can be built to survive almost as well *** a tank, yes i know blasters have a range while scrappers dont but come on most combat isnt out of range half the time anyway.
what i think it should have been is having a few defenseive power in their secondaryies, i mean all da blaster secondaries are custom anyway, but half of them are full of stuff that is not of any use. so i say give give da blaster scondaries a slight rework and put some defenses in there that would balence them with scrapper without haveing to alter dam output. |
It would be incredibly hard to do something like that, like it though I do, because of how many people would need to respec, reslot, rebuild entire characters. If something like that could happen, it would have to be a new AT.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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And properly slotted, played, etc., a Blaster can be as much a Tank as a Scrapper reasonably. Hero AT's are more Team Oriented, but they can solo. Tanks can run a map, but some people cannot Tank very well; should we raise their Damage? Same with Scrappers. They all have their drawbacks. Defenders need help with Damage too, but then we have a reverse Blaster, with not much difference twixt the two. |
Originally Posted by Sqeak
my main complaint here isnt that blaster are squishy i can live with them just the way they are, what i hate is that scrappers do more damage and can be built to survive almost as well *** a tank, yes i know blasters have a range while scrappers dont but come on most combat isnt out of range half the time anyway.
what i think it should have been is having a few defenseive power in their secondaryies, i mean all da blaster secondaries are custom anyway, but half of them are full of stuff that is not of any use. so i say give give da blaster scondaries a slight rework and put some defenses in there that would balence them with scrapper without haveing to alter dam output. |
Blaster secondaries are tweaked already to give them more survivability. Tweak them too much and you get a Tank-Mage. Or we get pretty much every AT working pretty much like any other AT. Vive la Différence!
Ninus Lvl 50 Bots/Dark/SM Mastermind Badges: 1384 @Ninus on Global
Put an Ebil MasterMind in the Obal Office: It wont be the first time
Campaigning for Global Global Ignore Champion since 2009!
As others said, no. You make blasters tougher, you're going to have to reduce the damage.
Stay out of melee. Reduce your difficulty. Slot for defense and/or recharge.
And carry a wakie.
I don't mind that blasters are squishy. I like playing blasters and I end up facedown often enough. A blaster is like a piece of artillery. To work properly you need support of other AT's. Like tanks, defenders, controllers and scrappers. A good team is more then the sum of its parts, even if the part you play can do ungodly amounts of damage.
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That's what I had in mind. Balance for these powers already exists, presumably so since the powers are already there, and the way the enemies ramp up in difficulty in the 30s, it makes sense to get them there, with how useful they are. As well, the way Epic pools were recently redefined, you can NEVER take all the powers from any one pool, even if you skip things in your primary or secondary. You have five powers per pool and four power picks to take them in - 41, 44, 47 and 49, and the last power you take will always be shafted with three slots. If you get pools to open up at 30 and unlock at 32, 35 and 38, then you have those three, plus the next four to grab powers in, which gives you seven picks for five powers, and, potentially, six slots each to five of those powers. The best of both worlds, even if just as a means to not run against the slot-jam at the end.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Sounds like a not bad idea. You still end up with the same results, just staggered at more palatable levels.
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In addition to that, a few of the powers there would really, REALLY help Blasters work their way up the levels, specifically the requisite control and the the requisite shield. It's not enough to make a world of difference, trust me. I've tried it, and it isn't. But it's more than enough to make SOME difference, and a few of the other powers do help out. Compare that to, say, what Scrappers get. Focused Accuracy aside, as it is no longer as godly, what else? A rare-use endurance discount, which is rarely useful, Web Grenade, which Blasters get at level 1 and even then it isn't THAT great, and a couple of ranged attacks that cost a lot, don't do much and, above all, aren't terribly useful to an AT with an already full attack chain. Scrappers getting these things earlier might be convenient, but it won't do anything to make them much stronger. Nothing that they won't get, anyway.
In fact, look at how levels progress. At level 6, you open up your first pool tier, at level 14, you open your second, and at level 20, you open your third. Then what? 20-40, absolutely nothing new, and then AAAAAAAALL the way to 40, THEN you get something new which, by that point isn't very useful if you're not a Blaster. Why not allow it earlier and liven up the levelling curve a bit?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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(1) Which powers would those be, and |
Originally Posted by Sqeak
what i think it should have been is having a few defenseive power in their secondaryies, i mean all da blaster secondaries are custom anyway, but half of them are full of stuff that is not of any use.
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(2) How much of a hit to damage are you willing to take? Defender-level?
The last time the devs tried to replace "powers nobody took," there were mobs with pitchforks, tar and feathers getting ready to gather outside the offices. You'll notice many of the PPPs (and some APPs) now have five powers instead of four.
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Actually, all of them were standardized to having five during I16. I can see getting the APPs sooner but not all the way at lvl 30. First off, there's the hero/villain parity since villains actually need to do an arc for theirs. With the design of the arc and missions, lvl 38 is probably the soonest these could be available. Also, I wonder if that was a deliberate move to not give the player access to all five of the powers.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
You'll notice many of the PPPs (and some APPs) now have five powers instead of four.
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In some ways, I wonder if it would be better to simply add a fifth pick to the regular Power Pools. Problem there is figuring out what should be added to some of them.
Which enemies are you (the OP) finding harder to defeat?
Your damage versus some high level enemies will be higher than others as you know. Some of the newer high level enemies (Cimeroran Traitors and Vanguard) seem to do insane damage versus everything.
If it were me, I'd be playing the +1/+2 levels as opposed to 'equivalent to 2/3/4 etc heroes'.
I know, solo, that I can take on +levels as that's how it worked before the recent changes to the difficulty setting system.
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Actually, as of... Some point in the recent past I can't place, you don't need to do the Patron arcs to get the Patron pools, and you can freely respec between them. The arcs are still there to do, and you can even do Arbiter Whatshisname's mission to examine the Patrons, but I don't believe Patron pools are limited. I don't see that as a problem, either. Let us pick Patron powers at level 30 and, if we really want to, send us on a trip to Grandville to learn about them first. The dock, customs, plaza and tower are completely safe of any danger, and the hospital is in the tower itself. Sure, you can probably argue against it, but I would personally not find it problematic.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
Actually, all of them were standardized to having five during I16. I can see getting the APPs sooner but not all the way at lvl 30. First off, there's the hero/villain parity since villains actually need to do an arc for theirs. With the design of the arc and missions, lvl 38 is probably the soonest these could be available.
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| Also, I wonder if that was a deliberate move to not give the player access to all five of the powers. In some ways, I wonder if it would be better to simply add a fifth pick to the regular Power Pools. Problem there is figuring out what should be added to some of them. |
That is the history, and while you can certainly argue that, despite coincidence and eventuality, it was still their intent to limit these powers, I'm much more inclined to argue that there are sufficient circumstantial reasons they are how they are, and unless told otherwise, don't want to assume there are other, hidden reasons. It's possible, but I can't say how likely, and it would personally kill my groove, so better not.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This is a Request and a Plead..
But I've been playing a Fire/Fire Blaster since the start, and up until now. I've noticed how Squishy Blasters are.. and I have a really big request. And that be to make Blasters Tougher?