Solo Crab Spider: I think I'm doing it wrong...
By
Biowraith,
Posted on: 2009-12-22 10:59 in Soldiers of Arachnos
Eww. Oh god. Gimme a second while I mash something up here...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Ok, this should hopefully help a bit;
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Gamble Spider: Level 31 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Crab Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Crab Spider Training
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Channelgun
- (A) Damage Increase
- (3) Accuracy
- (A) Resist Damage
- (5) Resist Damage
- (A) Damage Increase
- (3) Damage Increase
- (7) Accuracy
- (15) Accuracy
- (A) Resist Damage
- (5) Resist Damage
- (A) Defense Buff
- (7) Defense Buff
- (A) Damage Increase
- (9) Damage Increase
- (9) Accuracy
- (15) Accuracy
- (27) Endurance Reduction
- (A) Defense Buff
- (11) Defense Buff
- (11) Endurance Reduction
- (13) Endurance Reduction
- (A) Accuracy
- (13) Accuracy
- (A) Run Speed
- (A) Healing
- (17) Healing
- (17) Healing
- (A) Damage Increase
- (19) Damage Increase
- (19) Accuracy
- (23) Accuracy
- (23) Endurance Reduction
- (A) Endurance Modification
- (21) Endurance Modification
- (21) Endurance Modification
- (A) Run Speed
- (A) Resist Damage
- (25) Resist Damage
- (25) Endurance Reduction
- (27) Endurance Reduction
- (A) Accuracy
- (A) Healing
- (29) Healing
- (29) Recharge Reduction
- (A) Resist Damage
- (31) Resist Damage
- (31) Endurance Reduction
- (31) Endurance Reduction
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
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Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Accuracy
- (A) Run Speed
- (A) Recharge Reduction
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| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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You didn't take Stamina. Especially on something like an EAT, which all tend to eat end for breakfast, lunch and dinner; take Stamina. People go on and on about 'oh you dont need it if you slot right!' Horse puckey. Without Stamina or a LOT of IO investment, you WILL need Stamina, with the exceptions being Willpower and Regen. Since they have a built in, better version.
Hope that helps. My advice after 30 will be to get Omega maneuver, and then the two sets of pets. Trust me, those things are golden.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Also, running the fighting pool as well as the standard stuff WILL give you quite some endurance crunch, especially when you pick up Assault and Leadership later on (you will want to, they are worth it, unlike the pool versions).
I forgot to slot in Steadfast, so whack that in Wolf Spider armour. Get the +3% def slot as well if you can, and whack it in there. You can also slot a Karma -KB into OT
efensive if you want, for a bit more protection. Either way, no need to slot anything passive with more than 2 slots of anything, unless it gives some obscenely good numbers. Or if you have spare.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
In addition, many Crab players tend to downplay the melee attacks altogether. The main reason is because the ranged and targeted AoE attacks work just as well in melee as they do at range, but have more versatility. When you get your pets in later levels, they'll help out a lot too at range, adding to DPS. But overall, the targeted AEO attacks will give you more bang for the buck since they damage/ debuff multiple targets simultaneously.
Especially if you want to run both the Boxing and Fitness sets, you'll need to be really tight with your power selections, so your melee attacks will probably be the first on the chopping block.
Why wolfspider armour?
I'm sure you would do better with combat jumping, or aim, or TT Assault or pretty much anything else except CT Offensive (not great).
The only reason I could see is for PvP.
Quote:
For some reason, I just found this absolutely hilarious. I guess I didn't think my build was that bad. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Eww. Oh god.[...]
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Anyway, thanks for the advice, I'll try out your build once I get another respec.
BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.
Quote:
Mez protection.|
Originally Posted by Star_Seer
Why wolfspider armour?
I'm sure you would do better with combat jumping, or aim, or TT Assault or pretty much anything else except CT Offensive (not great). |
Stacked with Crab Armour and Fortification, the only hole is KB (for some non-sensical reason...)
Given this was only a build until 30, I left Tactics and Assault out of it till later since, solo, you'll want the damage output and shields first. They are nice, but not essential. And its less end drain to worry about.
@Bitt. Sorry, it wasn't as bad as, say, Invul without any of the toggles...builds do after all come down to personal tastes. But it was an instant Ohgodtherats as to why the build wasn't working out end wise
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I think its overkill for mez protection, all you need is crab armour and fortification and you have more than anyone else.
Quote:
^This|
Originally Posted by Obsidius
In addition, many Crab players tend to downplay the melee attacks altogether. The main reason is because the ranged and targeted AoE attacks work just as well in melee as they do at range, but have more versatility..
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I Kept the melee attacks based solely on concept (I realize they're not fantastic, but they look cool, arent /that/ bad, and fit my character) and only kept Longfang, Suppression and Venom Grenade out of teh range attack options and skipped pets. My Crab is a bit of a special case just because I spent so much on his build, but fighting is definately great thing to have. Venom Grenade + Suppression + Heavy Burst will make you happy with AoE dps.
@Mazzo Grave
Webmaster Grave, Virtueverse!
Energy/Energy Blaster Guide
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
you *******!!!!
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Quote:
Incorrect.|
Originally Posted by Star_Seer
I think its overkill for mez protection, all you need is crab armour and fortification and you have more than anyone else.
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From Mids;
Wolf Spider armour;
Status effects:
-2 mag Stun
-2 mag Sleep
-2 mag Immob
-2 mag Held
-2 mag Fear
-2 mag Confuse
Crab Spider armour;
Status effects:
-4 mag Stun
-4 mag Sleep
-4 mag Immob
-4 mag Held
-4 mag Fear
-4 mag Confuse
Fortification;
Status effects:
-8.3 mag Stun
-8.3 mag Sleep
-8.3 mag Immob
-8.3 mag Held
Combined:
-14.3 mag Stun
-14.3 mag Sleep
-14.3 mag Immob
-14.3 mag Held
-6 mag Confuse
-6 mag Fear
Also 1000% Sleep resistance, passive boost from the armours.
Fortification has no boost to Confuse or Fear effects. Also, the combined effect of the PASSIVE armours means that, as a little bonus, whenever you use awaken you don't need to wait for a Clear Mind, break free, etc. Small, but useful.
You can ALSO use the armours for dumping a -KB IO in, the one, horribly glaring hole in SoA armour. If you slot one in each armour and one in defensive training, KB will be as useless as everything else against you. Very useful.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Not sure about more than anyone else - I think Tankers can surpass those two with their basic mez protection powers, and some other sets get a little extra in specific areas. But certainly more than most when it comes to the most common mez types (KB notwithstanding).|
Originally Posted by Star_Seer
I think its overkill for mez protection, all you need is crab armour and fortification and you have more than anyone else.
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Anyway, I very much agree that Wolf Spider Armour is overkill. With Crab Armour + Fortification my Crab Spider can withstand Romulus' rez-stun, and while in theory Wolf Armour would help protect when weaker sources get stacked, I'm not sure I've ever had enough stacked on me at one time to break Crab+Fort in PvE.
For the holes in the protection, Fear and Confuse rarely turn up on more than one or two enemies at a time, so even just the 4 points from Crab still tend to be enough. As for knockback, I've found that just having one -KB IO (in Crab) has been enough to protect me from knockback in all but a handful of situations on the way to, and running at 50. If it'd been a problem with just one I'd slot a second in Combat Jumping, but it's not been so I haven't.
It's also worth bearing in mind that most attacks against you as a Crab will likely be at range and you're going to (or should) have fairly high ranged defense (if not capped), so most of those mezzes just going to plain miss. The chances of there being enough mezz to overcome the protection from Crab+Fort in any given PvE encounter is slim (how often does the average scrapper get held or stunned? Crab+Fort'll get stunned less easily than that), so the chances of there being enough and it all managing to hit you is remote, at least in PvE.
Really, unless you're intending to do something very specific with set bonuses etc, the powerslot used on Wolf Spider Armour would most likely see more results elsewhere.
It's more stacked res, mez res and a possible IO slotter. Up to you wether you take it or leave it, I've found it useful to have, so I kept it.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't provide any benefit at all, I've just found that the mez protection is 99.9% redundant for a Crab, while there's alternative choices that provide greater benefits in damage mitigation and/or other areas.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
It's more stacked res, mez res and a possible IO slotter. Up to you wether you take it or leave it, I've found it useful to have, so I kept it.
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I acknowledge IO set slotter as one reason to take it instead of the alternatives, but that reason needs a very clear and specific plan behind it.
Quote:
The primary argument against taking wolf spider armor on a crab is simply that crab spiders (well, all the VEATS) are very power hungry builds - between attacks from the primary, defenses from the secondary, stamina and any other pool powers you have a very tight build at least until the 40's where you have a little leeway depending on whether or not you want to take any epic pool powers. I can see taking the wolf spider armor on a bane who is going to be in melee a lot as the bane spider doesn't get the boost from fortification but on a crab, even a melee crab, the combination of fortification + the crab armor is going to be enough in almost all situations. The few situations where crab armor + fort isn't enough are probably going to be so few and far between that spending an entire power pick on wolf spider armor is still going to be a waste, when you can take some other power that does SO much more. Just carry a single break free and you pretty much cover those rare circumstances when some mobs stack more than 12 points of hold or stun, or even 4 points of confuse.
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Originally Posted by Biowraith
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't provide any benefit at all, I've just found that the mez protection is 99.9% redundant for a Crab, while there's alternative choices that provide greater benefits in damage mitigation and/or other areas.
I acknowledge IO set slotter as one reason to take it instead of the alternatives, but that reason needs a very clear and specific plan behind it. |
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
Yeah, in 36 levels of solo crabbing, I've been mezzed exactly once (confused for about 4 seconds), and I don't have the wolf armor. I am however impressed with how much knockback I get, but being relatively poor I have yet to win an auction on one of those uniques so far.
But I don't even have a travel power and I am finding this crab build to be the first time I don't have any power picks to spare. None. I don't think I'll even get to see what Omega Maneuver looks like.
Ok, far and away the biggest problem I see with your initial build is the total lack of damage enhancement. Slotting for damage lets you kill things faster (at the ED cap, generally twice as fast) which means using less attacks which means using less endurance. Assuming you aren't dealing with dramatically higher level enemies, 1 acc / 3 dam / 1 end red in your main attacks should let you end fights significantly faster and cheaper. Also note that endurance reduction is not linear - the first slot of end red is FAR more useful than the second or third. The only powers I could see justifying three slots of end red for are ultra-high-price things like Telekinesis, or maybe Arctic Air/Hotfeet.
In the same vein, especially while soloing, taking powers/slots to improve your offense tends to be more effective than just boosting your defense. This may be my blaster training speaking here, but ending battles quickly does improve survivability. Also, now that we have the detailed info ingame, look at what your powers ACTUALLY give you before devoting the slots to them - in particular, while the wolf and crab armors do provide SOME resistance to all, look at the numbers - they're only 2% and 3% resistance, respectively. Threeslotting a 3% res power to get more resistance will only boost it to ~4.7% resistance; a whole 1.1% more than it would have with the base slot (3.6%). Take those and put them in more meaningful powers, like filling out Fortification or your attacks, and probably respec out of Wolf Armor altogether - the only real benefit to it when you already have Crab armor and Fortification is the ability to ignore the stun from using Awakens and shrug off more heavily stacked confuses and fears (with Fortification, you have over 12 points of protection to the common status effects, which is more than enough for regular play).
Stamina is also hugely helpful considering how many toggles you want to run.
Frankenslotting some IOs would net you much smoother performance, but as just an SO build as listed, this should work better. It's still begging for more slots, and will appreciate another attack and getting the pets to shore up its single-target damage, but it should be decently sturdy, powerful, and endurance efficient without shifting the power choices too much from your initial build. I'd suggest replacing Weave with Frag Grenade or Arm Lash, or adding in one of those at 32, followed by the pets in the 30s.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 31 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Crab Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Crab Spider Training
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Channelgun -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(3), Dmg(5), EndRdx(23)
Level 1: Crab Spider Armor Upgrade -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A)
Level 2: Longfang -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(7), Dmg(7), EndRdx(17)
Level 4: Combat Training: Defensive -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(9)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 8: Suppression -- Acc(A), Dmg(9), Dmg(11), Dmg(11), EndRdx(13)
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(15), DefBuff(15)
Level 12: Venom Grenade -- Acc(A), Dmg(17), Dmg(19), Dmg(19), RechRdx(21), EndRdx(27)
Level 14: Boxing -- Acc(A)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 18: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(23)
Level 22: Mental Training -- Run(A)
Level 24: Fortification -- ResDam(A), ResDam(25), ResDam(25)
Level 26: Tough -- ResDam(A), ResDam(27), EndRdx(31)
Level 28: Serum -- Heal(A), RechRdx(29), Heal(29)
Level 30: Weave -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(31), EndRdx(31)
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
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Rule number six of an empathy defender is NEVER underestimate a blaster's ability to die. I don't care if he has CM, Fort, both RAs, bubbles (both FF and Sonic), and is fighting next to a Storm defender with hurricane on. If there is a way to die in that situation, the blaster will find it.
I'm pretty sure I don't know what the frick about Crab Spiders. Anyway here's what the build looks like:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Gamble Spider: Level 31 Natural Arachnos Soldier
Primary Power Set: Crab Spider Soldier
Secondary Power Set: Crab Spider Training
Power Pool: Fighting
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Channelgun
- (A) Accuracy
- (3) Endurance Reduction
- (9) Endurance Reduction
Level 1: Wolf Spider Armor- (A) Resist Damage
- (3) Resist Damage
- (11) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
Level 2: Longfang- (A) Accuracy
- (5) Endurance Reduction
- (9) Endurance Reduction
Level 4: Crab Spider Armor Upgrade- (A) Resist Damage
- (5) Resist Damage
- (7) Resist Damage
Level 6: Boxing- (A) Accuracy
- (7) Endurance Reduction
Level 8: Slice- (A) Accuracy
- (11) Endurance Reduction
- (13) Endurance Reduction
Level 10: Tactical Training: Maneuvers- (A) Endurance Reduction
- (21) Defense Buff
- (23) Defense Buff
Level 12: Combat Training: Defensive- (A) Defense Buff
- (13) Defense Buff
- (21) Defense Buff
Level 14: Venom Grenade- (A) Accuracy
- (15) Endurance Reduction
- (15) Endurance Reduction
Level 16: Suppression- (A) Accuracy
- (17) Endurance Reduction
- (17) Endurance Reduction
- (31) Endurance Reduction
Level 18: Frag Grenade- (A) Accuracy
- (19) Endurance Reduction
- (19) Endurance Reduction
Level 20: Tough- (A) Resist Damage
- (23) Endurance Reduction
- (27) Endurance Reduction
Level 22: Mental Training- (A) Run Speed
Level 24: Arm Lash- (A) Accuracy
- (25) Endurance Reduction
- (25) Endurance Reduction
Level 26: Tactical Training: Assault- (A) Endurance Reduction
- (27) Endurance Reduction
Level 28: Fortification- (A) Endurance Reduction
- (29) Resist Damage
- (29) Resist Damage
Level 30: Weave- (A) Defense Buff
- (31) Endurance Reduction
- (31) Endurance Reduction
Level 32: [Empty]Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
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Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Empty
Level 2: Rest- (A) Recharge Reduction
Level 1: Conditioning------------
And the Mid's Data Chunk:
That brings me to my problem: Endurance efficiency. It's, um, not good. Highly not good. She's far worse at Endurance management than any of my other SO-level characters. I'm pretty sure my Claws/Dark Armor Scrapper had better Endurance efficiency when she was on DOs. Seriously, you guys, End-crash city over here.
So, I'm asking you all for some advice. I'd like to improve my Crab Spider's Endurance efficiency. I'd like to maintain similar levels of survivability, but I can afford to make her more kill-able before we get to the point where anything can actually kill her. I haven't got a respec handy, having used up my veteran respecs, but I haven't done any of the respec trials yet, so I can go out and get one if I have to. Let's assume I can only afford SOs, I don't have the Infamy lying around to IO her out.
Her secondary build is even worse. I'm planning on making it a slot-machine build (hence naming her "Gamble Spider"), so the powers are selected based on slotting her with as many "chance for X" procs as possible, rather than anything sensible.
So, what do all of you think?
BackAlleyBrawler: I can't facepalm this post hard enough.
ShoNuff: If sophisticated = bro-mantically emo-tastic, then I'm going to keep to my Shonen loving simplicity dammit.