Damage output


Another_Fan

 

Posted

Hello everyone, you probbably heard this question hundred of times, tough i searched on the forums, couldnt find anything ...
Anyway this is what i would like to ask you ... what at / primary/ secondary has the highest damage output ( per second, minute, in general) in the following situations :

1. fully slotted for damage. playing team only.
2. soft capped for mellee defense.
3. softcapped for range def.

Considering that influence wouldnt be an issue and if you could advice red side too , would be great.

Thanks.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MageX View Post
1. fully slotted for damage. playing team only.
If you aren't obsessed with personal orange numbers, I'd have to say the Kinetics and Sonic Blast combo on a Defender/Corrupter running the leadership pool. The amount of damage that character can add to the team output is equivalent to several non-buffing characters, assuming the rest of the team is at least slightly competent.

Actually the personal orange numbers aren't too bad either...


 

Posted

With no influence limits and strictly for personal damage numbers I think the answer to all of the above might be a fire/shield scrapper.


 

Posted

With those specific conditions, */Shield on a Brute or Scrapper. And being that you're teaming all the time, you can indirectly influence overall team damage output by making things safer for squishier toons through AAO (through debuff, aggro control, and positioning caused by aggro control) and Grant Cover.

As for primary, it's a toss-up. I wouldn't really say any one set is inherently better overall, just that each does the same things in a different way. However, I will say that, while it's a combination I haven't done personally, Electric/Shield seems to be a fan favorite both in my circle and, by a quick gander at the large number of threads referring to the combination here on the forums, a favorite in general. So, you may want to take a look at that (and most of the threads should be on the first few pages of the respective AT forums, even).


Blue: ~Knockback Squad on Guardian~
Red: ~Undoing of Virtue on [3 guesses]~

 

Posted

I tend to stay away from these type of posts "make me an uber build! inf is not a problem!" because people with unlimited budget and very limited ingame knowledge tend to be RMT clients, sorry.


 

Posted

For overall team damage nothing can beat a kin/sonic defender.


 

Posted

As with all these things, it really depends. The second and third Kins on a team add very little practical benefit. (I'm thinking of the damage cap here, but I remember trying to do Siege's tower on a nonflying character under double speed boost once. The whole team was playing Wile E. Coyote.)

I'd think Rad/Sonic defender for whole team goodness. For individual superstar status it's hard to beat a Fire/Mental blaster with a lotta recharge.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

So untill now i have played only blasters and a fire.kin. tried a tank and a broadsword scrapper. I'm looking for a long term toon asi dont like having lots of alts and want to make the best out of it in terms of damage. I do only teams and tf's so will slot for damage only and maybe recharge. I'll leave the def mitigation on the hands of trollers and defenders and purely make this toon a damage dealer.
Atm i'm trying a fire blaster but if you have better suggestions i'll gladly take them and start an new character concept around a good dmg at.


 

Posted

fire melee/shield defense brute or scrapper. the actual numbers are so close, you may as well just pick red or blue side and go with the AT there.

i would say look at blasters as well but i can't get into ranged so hopefully others will help with that.


"Scrappers don't want the bit of dignity that Brutes left them taken away by (lol)Stalkers." -Delta_Strider, on Stalker buffs.

Current Project: Hard Goodbye, StJ/Nin
Retired: Blitzwulf, Claws/Nin (50); Perdition's Blade, Night Widow (50)

 

Posted

Quote:
I do only teams and tf's so will slot for damage only and maybe recharge.
I'm going to make some obvious statements- you may not know one of these things:

1. Slot Accuracy. 33-66% acc should be fine.
2. It's pointless slotting more than about 95% damage.
3. Build Up and Aim are your friends. Aim is around 65% damage buff on a blaster or Defender- pretty significant.


Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.

So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.

 

Posted

wait wait wait.....why have blasters been mentioned only like, twice here?


 

Posted

Because assuming you don't run into stacking limits (seldom an issue), a buffing/debuffing defender who uses their abilities well adds more damage to a full team than a blaster does. The fact that the damage increase shows up mostly on your teammates' orange numbers and not your own is irrelevant, if the goal is to do the most damage and you aren't a glory hound.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by MageX View Post
Hello everyone, you probbably heard this question hundred of times, tough i searched on the forums, couldnt find anything ...
Anyway this is what i would like to ask you ... what at / primary/ secondary has the highest damage output ( per second, minute, in general) in the following situations :

1. fully slotted for damage. playing team only.
2. soft capped for mellee defense.
3. softcapped for range def.

Considering that influence wouldnt be an issue and if you could advice red side too , would be great.

Thanks.
There's a lot of advice on Blue side already.

On Red Side, if you really just want damage without worrying too much about aggro drawn to yourself, VEAT is a very good choice! Crab seems like your type of build. You can add more damage for the team by taking two Assault Leadership. Between 30% damage buff and your Venom Grenade's resistance debuff, you can pump out a lot of aoe damage while not worrying too much about dying 'cause you already have awesome defense, resistance and health (serum). You must have a lvl 50 villain first which I guess you don't yet?

Dominator is also a very good replacement for Blaster-type. You can aoe control first and then start doing damage.


What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonMan View Post
Because assuming you don't run into stacking limits (seldom an issue), a buffing/debuffing defender who uses their abilities well adds more damage to a full team than a blaster does. The fact that the damage increase shows up mostly on your teammates' orange numbers and not your own is irrelevant, if the goal is to do the most damage and you aren't a glory hound.
yes, but do they actually count as damage dealers, as they arent really the ones doing damage?

Sure, you could have damage buffs and resist debiffs to make the TEAM's damage output better, but does that mean that that particular build/at/potato is good at pumping out damage, seeing as all it does is allow everyone else to do more damage?

what if a damage dealer is on the team allready? wouldnt they then just ebcome even better?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Player99 View Post
yes, but do they actually count as damage dealers, as they arent really the ones doing damage?
Well, did the team do that much damage before they arrived? No? Then I consider them to be damage dealers, yes, since they are contributing damage to the team. If built and played well, on a full team they contribute damage FAR in excess of their percentage of the team makeup. Fun facts (using Defender numbers here):

1 member out of 8 = 12.5% of the team roster.
Assault adds 9.3-ish% damage to the team.

Therefore a Defender doing nothing but running Assault and blasting is contributing at least their fair share of the team's damage. That's not even touching their primary powerset, most of which can buff team damage far in excess of that. To pick a random example Freezing Rain debuffs resist by 22% vs. +3 opponents (more if they're lower). So by hitting one power per fight, running Assault, and shooting said Defender is contributing more damage than any blaster I've ever managed to build. Maybe there's some miracle blaster who can top that, if so I'd like to see the build.

Oh, they could also do some "defendey" stuff too, I guess. *shrug*

Quote:
what if a damage dealer is on the team allready? wouldnt they then just ebcome even better?
They sure would. Said damage dealer often won't even realize that he's become even better due to the actions of another character, he'll just melt spawns faster than before and think, "Wow, I'm amazing!" This is why I included the caveat that helping the team isn't the way to go if you're egocentric. Some knowledgeable players will recognize the contribution, most will just wonder why their last team sucked compared to this one.

p.s. Sorry about the sidetrack, but Player99 was asking good questions and I wanted to address them. Done with the pro-buff/debuff ranting now!


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonMan View Post
Maybe there's some miracle blaster who can top that, if so I'd like to see the build.

How about any blaster with a mez setting up containment for a team of 'trollers that only use their secondaries - that's about 80 odd % -


Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonMan View Post
To pick a random example Freezing Rain debuffs resist by 22% vs. +3 opponents (more if they're lower). So by hitting one power per fight, running Assault, and shooting said Defender is contributing more damage than any blaster I've ever managed to build. Maybe there's some miracle blaster who can top that, if so I'd like to see the build.
As far as I know, resistance debuffs are unaffected by the purple patch. They are affected by enemy resistances, if they have any.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

No, that's not correct. Resistance debuffs are definitely affected by the purple patch.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

What uberguy said. I don't know of any debuffs that are unaffected by the purple patch.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
No, that's not correct. Resistance debuffs are definitely affected by the purple patch.
Oops. Not sure what I was thinking then. I have this nagging (and apparently wrong) thing in the back of my head telling me that damage and resistance debuffs are not reduced as much or in the same way as to-hit and defense debuffs. I don't know why, I must be getting it mixed up with something. I hate when the brain gets full. That will teach me to post while I am trying to figure out how to do plumbing.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Oops. Not sure what I was thinking then. I have this nagging (and apparently wrong) thing in the back of my head telling me that damage and resistance debuffs are not reduced as much or in the same way as to-hit and defense debuffs. I don't know why, I must be getting it mixed up with something. I hate when the brain gets full. That will teach me to post while I am trying to figure out how to do plumbing.
It's because AVs all have something like 85 resistance to tohit an defense debuffs, so that on top of the purple patch can make them pretty much useless in many scenarios.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlan_ View Post
It's because AVs all have something like 85 resistance to tohit an defense debuffs, so that on top of the purple patch can make them pretty much useless in many scenarios.
Oh. I must have gotten AVs lack of resistance confused with the purple patch. Most AVs do not resist damage and resistance debuffs then (unless they have resistance of the same damage type)?

Thank you for the correction and further clarification.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonMan View Post
Well, did the team do that much damage before they arrived? No? Then I consider them to be damage dealers, yes, since they are contributing damage to the team. If built and played well, on a full team they contribute damage FAR in excess of their percentage of the team makeup. Fun facts (using Defender numbers here):

1 member out of 8 = 12.5% of the team roster.
Assault adds 9.3-ish% damage to the team.

Therefore a Defender doing nothing but running Assault and blasting is contributing at least their fair share of the team's damage. That's not even touching their primary powerset, most of which can buff team damage far in excess of that. To pick a random example Freezing Rain debuffs resist by 22% vs. +3 opponents (more if they're lower). So by hitting one power per fight, running Assault, and shooting said Defender is contributing more damage than any blaster I've ever managed to build. Maybe there's some miracle blaster who can top that, if so I'd like to see the build.

Oh, they could also do some "defendey" stuff too, I guess. *shrug*
All true, but that same effectiveness also varies greatly by team make-up and size. For example, although the defender definitely adds damage, it wont be significant if its just the Def, a tank and like a PB lets say (although the kheld gets dam from them anywho, but thats another story).

On the same note, a blaster on that team would be 10x as good due to it just being able to run in: BU + AoE = everyone died. As opposed to a def who has to setup buffs or debuffs first.

on a full team, the blaster would contribute the same static amount of BU + blah = dead guys. The def would be even better as more sources of damage are buffed/more enemies are debuffed, making the net effect better, but again..it isn't directly dealing the damage, it's just making everyone else better. Now if the blaster and the defender are on the same team, the blaster wins out IMO as at a base level, the blaster does pump out more damage, and after the Def does it's thing, the blaster is simply going to be pumping out even more.

It's not that im disagreeing necesarily, it's just I dont see the Def as a damage dealer, as much as a damage enabler.

Quote:
They sure would. Said damage dealer often won't even realize that he's become even better due to the actions of another character, he'll just melt spawns faster than before and think, "Wow, I'm amazing!" This is why I included the caveat that helping the team isn't the way to go if you're egocentric. Some knowledgeable players will recognize the contribution, most will just wonder why their last team sucked compared to this one.
true, but again, it would be the damage dealers in the team pumping out those #'s, the def simply enables them to do so, while without the def they are still doing more damage than anyone else on the team...


 

Posted

Blasters are high damage in general, but other ATs outdo them in a variety of scenarios. Stalkers can potentially output more burst single-target damage. Most Mastermings, Corruptors, Controllers and Defenders fare better against single hard targets because -Regen and -Resistance debuffs effectively grant them more damage. Some Scrapper, Brute, Tanker and Controller combinations can output more AoE damage (Scrapper - and I assume Tanker/Brutes too - APP blasts use their 1.125 melee modifer, which helps).

On paper, Defenders and other support classes contribute vastly more damage than "proper" DPS classes. In practice, the difference in offensive power between a team heavy in damage dealers and a team heavy in support ATs isn't all that significant and a lot less than the hypothetical numbers suggest (however, the latter tends to be much safer). Enemy HP is low enough that any team with enough Blasters on it is going to wipe out all the minions and Lts. in the opening AoE volley, whether or not there are any buffs or debuffs around, hence the debuffs only contribute to bosses and other hard targets, which are a smaller proportion of enemies in total.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Player99 View Post
All true, but that same effectiveness also varies greatly by team make-up and size. For example, although the defender definitely adds damage, it wont be significant if its just the Def, a tank and like a PB lets say (although the kheld gets dam from them anywho, but thats another story).

On the same note, a blaster on that team would be 10x as good due to it just being able to run in: BU + AoE = everyone died. As opposed to a def who has to setup buffs or debuffs first.

on a full team, the blaster would contribute the same static amount of BU + blah = dead guys. The def would be even better as more sources of damage are buffed/more enemies are debuffed, making the net effect better, but again..it isn't directly dealing the damage, it's just making everyone else better. Now if the blaster and the defender are on the same team, the blaster wins out IMO as at a base level, the blaster does pump out more damage, and after the Def does it's thing, the blaster is simply going to be pumping out even more.

It's not that im disagreeing necesarily, it's just I dont see the Def as a damage dealer, as much as a damage enabler.



true, but again, it would be the damage dealers in the team pumping out those #'s, the def simply enables them to do so, while without the def they are still doing more damage than anyone else on the team...
You're looking at it wrong. Instead of trying to check what it does in teams, where there's so many variables, check solo.

1) A bunch of Blaster comnbos can solo AVs. A very select few can solo GMs.

2) A bunch of defender combos can solo AVs. A bunch of them can solo GMs.

Against very hard targets, debuffs like -regen and -res are basically more DPS.
If the blaster do 200 while the AV resist half of it then regen 50, he just have 50 net damage.
If the defender only do 100, but manage to nullify the AV's resistance and halve his regen, he'll have 75 net damage.


So against harder targets, defender will do more damage then a blaster. Sure the blasters will do more against smaller targets because you won't have the time to stack debuffs on them....but they already die so quickly it's not really important.


"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX