Shield/SS or Shield/EM
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
INV can be more Defense based or more Resistance based, depending on your build preference. Bear in mind, with the resistances built into INV, it makes surviving the Rage crash much more feasable than with pure DEF based sets.
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However, my point was more a reply to the fact that there was defense based sets, before SHield and SR.
ICE ARMOR being the big one.
ENERGY AURA being another one on the brute side of things.
And even then, they all have ways to cover for the -Defense...
SHIELD has +HP and Resistance.
SR has scaling resists
ICE has -DMG aura
EA has some resists and energy drain.
And if I remember correctly, the crash doesn't do a complete DEFENSE CRASH, but rather you lose a chunk of it.
And it's not like I'm against the removal of the crash, it's just not something I would say needs to be done to it. It's just that, if you think the crash is to much to deal with on your defense based toon...don't make that combo.
This is also me not wanting to see Raged nerfed/changed from where it is. I like it where it is right now
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I understand what you were saying.
Yes, the Rage crash isn't a total Defense crash. It's a 20% Defense debuff for 10 seconds. I think the point was that DEF based sets (that offer little in the way of RES) will feel that 20% debuff a lot more than RES based sets. Since there are more DEF based sets in the game now, it might be worth looking into that DEF debuff at some point.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
I understand what you were saying.
Yes, the Rage crash isn't a total Defense crash. It's a 20% Defense debuff for 10 seconds. I think the point was that DEF based sets (that offer little in the way of RES) will feel that 20% debuff a lot more than RES based sets. Since there are more DEF based sets in the game now, it might be worth looking into that DEF debuff at some point. |
You're only going to feel the defense debuff that takes you below the soft-cap.
Meanwhile a pure RES based set with no DEF will feel every part of that debuff for the simple fact that they have no padding to soften the blow.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
You're only going to feel the defense debuff that takes you below the soft-cap.
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Meanwhile a pure RES based set with no DEF will feel every part of that debuff for the simple fact that they have no padding to soften the blow. |
The DEF debuff on Rage crashing should be looked at. There are a lot more DEF based sets for tanks and brutes now to warrant it.
The soft cap of 45% reduced by the Rage crash to 25% positional defense is a joke. You have to keep in mind, not every player uses pools/IO set bonuses to maximize their defense. Nor are powersets balanced around IO set bonuses. SR slotted with SOs (not including pools) is around 30% Defense (you can reach the cap with pools). This is what the survivability of this set is built around. 30% positional is not that great to begin with, then couple that with the Rage crash debuff and you mind as well not have any toggles on for 10 seconds.
A set built around resistance does not really care about a pure defense debuff since their survivability is based around resisting damage, not avoiding it. The DEF debuff on Rage crashing should be looked at. There are a lot more DEF based sets for tanks and brutes now to warrant it. |
The pure defense fighter pre-crash will be hit 20 times for 200 damage.
After the crash, they will be hit 40 times for 400 damage.
A resist-based defense with 50% resistance will be hit 50 times for 250 damage (500 reduced by half).
A resist-based defense after crash will be hit 70 times for 350 damage (700 reduced by half). Hmm, they will be hurt less, interesting.
Thrythlind's Deviant Art Page
"Notice at the end, there: Arcanaville did the math and KICKED IT INTO EXISTENCE." - Ironik on the power of Arcanaville's math
Assume 100 attacks of 10 damage each.
The pure defense fighter pre-crash will be hit 20 times for 200 damage. After the crash, they will be hit 40 times for 400 damage. A resist-based defense with 50% resistance will be hit 50 times for 250 damage (500 reduced by half). A resist-based defense after crash will be hit 70 times for 350 damage (700 reduced by half). Hmm, they will be hurt less, interesting. |
However, all the defense based sets have other means to avoid damage, besides just Defense.
So, assuming your math is right...
SR has scaling resists
INV has Resists
EA has Resists
ICE has -DMG aura
STONE has Resists (to backup its defenses)
Shield has Resists
WP has resists
Not to mention some of those sets have heals and a means for +HP.
...Rage is fine as is.
And it's not like you HAVE to run it perma. You choose too. You can just run it at times you won't have to worry about the defense crash.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Snarky comments and weird pseudo-math aside, sets that are designed to primarily be DEF based (yes, some have +HP, minor resists etc.) suffer from Rage crashing more than the RES based sets.
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."
Snarky comments and weird pseudo-math aside, sets that are designed to primarily be DEF based (yes, some have +HP, minor resists etc.) suffer from Rage crashing more than the RES based sets.
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This is true, and the devs seem to be aware of it in that they tried to replace it with a minus recovery, which was even more ridiculous, because that coupled with the end crash meant toggle dropping death-fests, so they wisely cancelled the change.
There have been damage work ups done by forum members, and they all seem to show that SS WITH rage puts SS's damage output in the same neighborhood as other competing sets. Without rage, SS is a bottom feeder damage-wise. So basically, you need to take rage if you want to compete damage-wise with other sets. That means you have to waste a power, slot it, keep using it, and then endure a pretty hefty defense debuff and endurance crash every couple of minutes, along with 10 seconds of impotence, just to do damage on par with other sets. Really, the only advantage the power gives is the to hit buff, which is great, but I don't think it justifies that many negatives. I think the defense debuff could be dropped from the power without any problems whatsoever. The end crash and 10 seconds of impotence every two minutes is a fair trade for the to hit buff and being able to do dmg on par with other powersets. I don't know how anyone who actually plays ss for 50 levels can claim that crash is unnoticeable - running out of end and not being able to damage enemies every two minutes drives me nuts sometimes.
There have been damage work ups done by forum members, and they all seem to show that SS WITH rage puts SS's damage output in the same neighborhood as other competing sets. Without rage, SS is a bottom feeder damage-wise. So basically, you need to take rage if you want to compete damage-wise with other sets. That means you have to waste a power, slot it, keep using it, and then endure a pretty hefty defense debuff and endurance crash every couple of minutes, along with 10 seconds of impotence, just to do damage on par with other sets. Really, the only advantage the power gives is the to hit buff, which is great, but I don't think it justifies that many negatives.
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I would consider SD as an exception. With AAO I average a 75% dam bonus. Slightly less than Rage but still pretty nice. So out of the gate it brings damage on par with other sets. If you can handle Rage with SD it helps make the damage superior to other sets. Myself I don't like dealing with the crash and picked up another attack but I may switch back.... I'll see.
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You shouldn't determine how rage works based on SD or whatever set you choose to go along with SS. Regardless of primary (for tanks) or (secondary) for brutes, the penalities for rage are excessive, imo. Again, with rage, SS does damage on par with competing sets, so really the only advantage it gives you is the to hit debuff, which again, is very nice, but not so nice considering you suffer an end crash every two minutes, along with 10 seconds of damage impotence AND a 20% def penalty. That's excessive for a to hit bonus that is really just overkill most of the time, which is why I feel the devs could drop the def penalty without any other alterations. The end crash and 10 seconds of impotence every two minutes is more than enough of a penalty for a power that merely allows the set to do dmg on par with it's competitors along with a to hit bonus, in a game where you hit 90 plus percent of the time anyway (pve wise).
Ive re-awakened my Shield/Axe tanker with the free Server Transfers and after a respec (he was my 2nd toon so I got a lot of things wrong) upped the diff from 0/0 to +2/x3 and am having no problems apart from END.
I rarely ever go below 1/3 health (too much agro or EB's) and and just starting to look at IO's (Im level 35).
With Weave running im currently at 36% (ish) Def to all 3 positions. Getting 2 Sets of ToD IO sets will give me another +6ish% - taking me to 42% Melee.
1 Set of Mako will give me 39ish% Ranged.
AoE will stay at 36%. I remember seeing an IO set that gave +Def to Ranged/AoE but I forget (this is my first serious attempt at IOing).
Yes Shield/Axe is rather END heavy but for all that is it awesome fun
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
Shard Warrior - 50 MA/Regen/BM Scrapper
Founding Member and Leader : Shadow-Force
Co-Leader: Council of Heroes
"Whatever evils come this way... we will be there to stop them."