AVs, EBs and the new difficulty settings
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2009-12-07 16:27 in Player Questions
I can answer the first one and make a general statement to lead off: actual team size will override the AV setting.
If you have AV's set to NO, but you have 6 or more people, you will get AV's.
Now that we have different difficulty settings, I don't know how big a team you need to force AV's at different level settings (or if that even applies).
As for virtual vs real team size, the higher of the two will apply. If you are set to virtual team of 6 and have 4 on the team, missions will spawn for 6. If you have 7 on the team, missions will spawn for 7.
P.S. I dunno squat about how the settings work in AE. Someone else will have to field that part.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Agreeing with the answer given already. Actual team size overrides difficulty settings.|
Originally Posted by M_I_Abrahms
1) Does one have to turn AVs 'on' in the difficulty slider, even if there's a team?
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Quote:
| 2) If it is possible to get AVs on a team, is it a sliding size, as old, or a set number no matter what your other settings are? |
Quote:
| In order to get Elite Bosses in AE, does one need to have the Boss setting on, or the AV one? I'm talking about created characters set at EB to spawn as EB. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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In AE, EBs will scale down to Bosses on easier settings... at least before i16. No idea if they still do though. :3
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
AV scaling only works downward. In other words, if you create an EB, it will always be an EB. If you create an AV, I believe it can be downgraded using the team settings. Boss settings will only serve to downgrade bosses to LTs.
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That is very odd, and isn't consistent with pre AE behavior.
Edit: I went and tested, and running a mish on +0 level foes and critters that are designed as EBs spawned them as +0 EBs. I didn't try turning down my team size, though. My AV settings were set to no AV. (I confirmed this, as I had an AV in the mission which spawned as an EB.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
But it worked this way since i14. You would get EB->Boss downgrade on heroic and EBs on 2-5 diff settings
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
That is very odd, and isn't consistent with pre AE behavior.
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Only in AE.
Outside of AE, EBs don't scale down ever.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
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One thing I have found. I set my fire/kin to +1/x8 NO Bosses. However, if I dual box, I still get bosses. The Boss setting says do you want to spawn bosses SOLO. Once you dual box you get bosses.
So I still 'map' the mission solo (and the bosses downgrade to LTs) and then invite. Yes this is a hassle, but still preferable to the old way. I would have to map the mission to get the mobs the old way too, but have to find 6 more padders. Ha.
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Originally Posted by CaptSammy
One thing I have found. I set my fire/kin to +1/x8 NO Bosses. However, if I dual box, I still get bosses. The Boss setting says do you want to spawn bosses SOLO. Once you dual box you get bosses.
So I still 'map' the mission solo (and the bosses downgrade to LTs) and then invite. Yes this is a hassle, but still preferable to the old way. I would have to map the mission to get the mobs the old way too, but have to find 6 more padders. Ha. |
It works like this: The settings apply to yourself and your missions.
You set yourself to 8, no bosses, itll spawn for 8 players but no bosses. As soon as you add a player, it treats it like youre suddenly 9 players, and overrides and will spawn like an 8 man team.
This also applies to EBs/AVs. If you dont wanna fight AVs solo, you need to keep your effective team count below 6, even when teaming. So you can reduce it down and have 5 people on the team but itll only spawn an EB if youre set to x1, but if youre above that, set to x2+ itll spawn an AV, because its treating you as an extra count for teaming purposes.
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This is incorrect. The virtual team and real team sizes DO NOT ADD. There is no such thing as a team of 9.|
Originally Posted by Jeminiks
You set yourself to 8, no bosses, itll spawn for 8 players but no bosses. As soon as you add a player, it treats it like youre suddenly 9 players, and overrides and will spawn like an 8 man team.
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In your example, the team with 2 real players and 8 virtual is spawning like a team of *TWO* for purposes of the boss setting. For purposes of spawn size, it is working as a team of 8.
Quote:
| This also applies to EBs/AVs. If you dont wanna fight AVs solo, you need to keep your effective team count below 6, even when teaming. So you can reduce it down and have 5 people on the team but itll only spawn an EB if youre set to x1, but if youre above that, set to x2+ itll spawn an AV, because its treating you as an extra count for teaming purposes. |
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I think what you're saying is wrong.|
Originally Posted by Jeminiks
It works like this: The settings apply to yourself and your missions.
You set yourself to 8, no bosses, itll spawn for 8 players but no bosses. As soon as you add a player, it treats it like youre suddenly 9 players, and overrides and will spawn like an 8 man team. This also applies to EBs/AVs. If you dont wanna fight AVs solo, you need to keep your effective team count below 6, even when teaming. So you can reduce it down and have 5 people on the team but itll only spawn an EB if youre set to x1, but if youre above that, set to x2+ itll spawn an AV, because its treating you as an extra count for teaming purposes. |
Team size for the sake of the spawns equals either your team size or the equivalency size of the mission holder, which ever is larger. There is no adding of teammates to the equivalency setting anymore (the old system added one virtual teammate on settings 2 and 4).
So, if you set yourself equal to 2 toons and you have three teammates, spawn size is set for 4 (you plus three teammates).
If you set yourself for 4 toons and you have one teammate, spawn size is for 4.
If you have AVs set to downgrade and if you set yourself for 5 toons and you have two teammates, spawn size is for 5 and you get no AVs.
If you have AVs set to downgrade and if you set yourself for 2 toons and you have 5 teammates, then spawn size is for 6 (you and 5 teammates) and you will get AVs.
If you have AVs set to downgrade and if you set yourself for 6 toons and you have 2 teammates, then spawn size is for 6 and you will get AVs.
Spawn size never goes above being set for 8, even if you set yourself equal to 8 toons and have 7 teammates.
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Quote:
Just adding to what others are saying. This isn't correct. It's whichever is greater that applies, not both. (I'd love it if it worked that way, though.)|
Originally Posted by Jeminiks
You set yourself to 8, no bosses, itll spawn for 8 players but no bosses. As soon as you add a player, it treats it like youre suddenly 9 players, and overrides and will spawn like an 8 man team.
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Quote:
| This also applies to EBs/AVs. If you dont wanna fight AVs solo, you need to keep your effective team count below 6, even when teaming. So you can reduce it down and have 5 people on the team but itll only spawn an EB if youre set to x1, but if youre above that, set to x2+ itll spawn an AV, because its treating you as an extra count for teaming purposes. |
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I think you typo'd this one. If AVs are set to downgrade, and there are only three on the team, you will not get AVs.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
If you have AVs set to downgrade and if you set yourself for 6 toons and you have 2 teammates, then spawn size is for 6 and you will get AVs.
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@Roderick
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But the owner of the mission set themselves equal to six. And six makes AVs and overrides the request to downgrade them. |
Originally Posted by Roderick
I think you typo'd this one. If AVs are set to downgrade, and there are only three on the team, you will not get AVs.
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If you're soloing and set yourselves to six, you'll get AVs, even if you asked for the downgrade, no?
EDIT:
No.
I just tested this. I set myself for no AVs. Went to the Nightstar mission in Flashback (one badge mission with an AV). By myself set to one-PC-equivalency, she was an EB.
I then upped my equivalency to six, and she was still an EB.
I invited another player, set to six, and she was still an EB.
Two players, set to equivalency of eight, and she was still an EB.
So, the conclusion is, that when the holder of the mission says "No AVs", then there will be no AVs, even if the equivalency slider is set to eight and there are less than six on the team.
I'm assuming that if there are six physical players on the team then the "No AV" slider is ignored. At least I think so.
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Quote:
Yes, six ACTUAL players overrides the "No AV" setting.|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
So, the conclusion is, that when the holder of the mission says "No AVs", then there will be no AVs, even if the equivalency slider is set to eight and there are less than six on the team.
I'm assuming that if there are six physical players on the team then the "No AV" slider is ignored. At least I think so. |
HOWEVER....
Previously, going to higher difficulty settings would reduce the point at which a team would get an AV. On Invincible, you would get AV's while solo. We do not know how/if the new level setting affects what team size is needed to override the "No AV" setting.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Quote:
Perhaps, old invincible diff settings were forcibly disabling "No AV" flag.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Yes, six ACTUAL players overrides the "No AV" setting.
HOWEVER.... Previously, going to higher difficulty settings would reduce the point at which a team would get an AV. On Invincible, you would get AV's while solo. We do not know how/if the new level setting affects what team size is needed to override the "No AV" setting. |
It wasn't just that one setting, though. It was a sliding scale. At base difficulty, you needed 6 to get AV's. Each step up on the difficulty setting decreased the needed team size by one, except the last setting (Invincible) dropped it down to 'AVs while solo'.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
OK, it's been a while since the new set up came out, and I'm still flummoxed. I've got a couple semi-related questions about this subject.
1) Does one have to turn AVs 'on' in the difficulty slider, even if there's a team?
2) If it is possible to get AVs on a team, is it a sliding size, as old, or a set number no matter what your other settings are?
3) In order to get Elite Bosses in AE, does one need to have the Boss setting on, or the AV one? I'm talking about created characters set at EB to spawn as EB.
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