Signitaure Henchman Travel Powers& MM weapons re-vamp


Ad Astra

 

Posted

Basically this is an attempt to put more style and uniqueness( and no "henchman ARE unique" please) in our Masterminds
First suggestion

Weapons:


With Dual Pistols coming up, Thugs Masterminds just lost all their shine. Not only are several ATs getting what was once their own bit of cool, but they're going to be doing it cooler as well. Merc, Ninja, And Necro Henchies never had any style of their own as far as weapons go, using weapons and powers everybody already had.

Soon the only MMS with cool exclusive weapons will be Robotics(Laser Pulse Rifles) and Demon Summoning(whips) My suggestion is to re-vamp the weapons and range powers used by Masterminds. To make them more unique. So heeeeeere we go!

Thugs: This suggestion is kinda odd, but hear me out.
Take away one of their guns. And Leave them with a single side-arm. All three Current MM attacks are fully feasable with one gun as much as two.

The iconagraphy here is actually pretty cool when you think about it..
Compare the current set-up. Your Thugs MM fights exactly on the level of the rest of your henchman, using two guns at once, and being in the midst of things.

With one gun, he seems more of a leader, more of a Criminal Mastermind. Giving orders and putting one in the eyes of any stragglers he sees.Furthermore, he does'nt feel at risk, so he comes in lightly armed.

Necromancy: Take away the regular Darkness Blasts and replace them with blast fired from a wand, scepter, or staff.. We all want wands for controll or blast sets, and it may or may not happen in the future. But For NOW( and probably the forseeable future) it would be fantastic if necro MMS weilded wands roughly the length of your forearm.

The Imagery here is obvious. When I see a swarm of zombies coming towards me, I'm looking in the back for the guy with the magic staff/wand, cause I know he's the guy in charge.

It's possible(read: extremely likely) that we'd loose color customization of the blasts (but not the other powers) but it'd be trading one form of customization for another one that makes your MM look like less of a Dark Defender.

Ninja: I've made this claim before.
Ninja MMs should get the wrist-mounted dart launcher that upgraded jounin get.
I used to think that shuriken would be ideal, but, think about your ninja henchman for a minute. Who uses shuriken? Genin, the new guys, silly gray cotumes, youthful faces. They're the expendables, the one's who you don't even trust with swords or ninja tricks. no, the Nobodies get the plain old shuriken. The Elite, they get caltrops, swords, Smokebombs, and, the more dangerous and effective Poison Dart guns(even if we nja MMS sometimes hate when they use it improperly) It identifies you with your elite, and not just any old ninja. It also still shares some visual elements with the bow currently being used.

Mercenaries: Mercs... ahhh Mercs. what are we lacking right now in terms of heavy guns? Muskets. Rifles. Classic war rifles. Revolver Chambered Rifles. Shotguns. more exaggerated sniper-type rifles. Why? they can't do all of the things the AR sets can do, granted MOST of the weapons in those sets can't either, but they possibly could. The idea behind this being. You're the brains of the operation. You don't go in with guns blazing. You hang back, and let your well paid soldiers do what they do. Your weapon is one of precision. and Power. the weapon of a thinking villain.

and those are my suggestions for changing the weaponry of Masterminds

on to my second idea.

Henchman Travel Powers.

Currently, all henchman come with superjump equipped to keep up with their Mastermind no matter where they go. Would'nt it be much cooler if they all had their own way of getting around? you know it would
The idea here, is If Your henchman are a certain dsitance away from their target destination,( or you as your mastermind is the target Destination when the henchman are set to follow) Their AI would toggle on a travel power unique to each of them, until they made it close enough to their target location, at which point they would untoggle it and walk normally.
and here's how

Ninja: no brainer, let them use ninja-run, possibly maxed out. The oni should still appear and dissapear in a flash fo fire, as he currently does.

Zombie: Super Jump is the only way I could see them actually gettig around, possibly with a unique jumping and landing animation cycle. With the exception of the Lich who should teleport in a dark portal similar to his summoning animation

Robots: Robots would fly using their already existing Rocket boots.

Mercenaries: Mercs would teleport, but their animation would be them repelling back into the(invisible, assumed) chopper they were dropped from when summoned. So it looks like they are being airlifted/dropped everywhere

Thugs: Thugs would activate a power with similar specs to ninja run, but instead of running they'd hop on the motorcycles Bruisers use to be summoned and cruise to the location.

ideas? yes? no? absolutely impossible?
Discuss.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Premonitions View Post
Currently, all henchman come with superjump equipped to keep up with their Mastermind no matter where they go.
Not true. They have Super Leap, not Super Jump. This isn't to let them keep up with you, but to allow them to reach high ledges they wouldn't otherwise be able to reach (which would leave you without both your firepower and your protection)


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
Not true. They have Super Leap, not Super Jump. This isn't to let them keep up with you, but to allow them to reach high ledges they wouldn't otherwise be able to reach (which would leave you without both your firepower and your protection)
Potato Potahto


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Posted

It's a big difference. Super Leap doesn't increase their speed.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
It's a big difference. Super Leap doesn't increase their speed.
I was'nt talking about the rest of your point, which was valid, but just the difference between leaping and jumping.


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Posted

The difference between Super Leap and Super Jump was my point. They're two different powers, that do two different things.


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
The difference between Super Leap and Super Jump was my point. They're two different powers, that do two different things.
Oh, well damn, I'd been using the term interchangeably to refer to the same pool power, my bad, thanks.


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Posted

Absolutely, positively DISagree with almost all of your attack power suggestions. Dual Wield is part of my Thugs MMs. It fits them, it's part of what makes them fun to me. No, they don't do spectacular damage, but that's not the point.

Similarly, Necro - I have a Nec/Poison who got her powers thanks to a possession attempt by the spirit of an ancient Egyptian priest. She never has had, never needed, and wouldn't have a wand, staff, etc. The power comes from HER. A wand or staff would frankly ruin that feel.

Quote:
We all want wands
... is a huge, and hugely *incorrect,* assumption on your part. For instance, Life Drain - as it sits now - fits my Necro MM *perfectly,* looking exactly like she's ripping some of the life from her opponent. A wand is *weak* by comparison. It'd be a sure-fire way to get me to stop playing that character.

Quote:
You're the brains of the operation. You don't go in with guns blazing.
is, again, a huge assumption on your part. I semi-agree with the idea for Nin - but hell, for mine? I'd love to have him have one of the *swords* to be a melee-mind.

Some of them, as alternate animations - fine. But some require a bit more than that, as I'm reading it, and I'm against having any of it be an all-out change.

(I also disagree with giving all the thugs motorcycles - I happen to like the existing animations.)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Absolutely, positively DISagree with almost all of your attack power suggestions. Dual Wield is part of my Thugs MMs. It fits them, it's part of what makes them fun to me. No, they don't do spectacular damage, but that's not the point.

Similarly, Necro - I have a Nec/Poison who got her powers thanks to a possession attempt by the spirit of an ancient Egyptian priest. She never has had, never needed, and wouldn't have a wand, staff, etc. The power comes from HER. A wand or staff would frankly ruin that feel.
I with Bill here. I disagree with everything, especially the Necro change. My main is a Necro/Dark MM, he is a Devil so the power comes from him. He was born with it. So this change (if it ever happened) would ruin his back story Completely.
You say their powers need to be unique, then surely the same would have to apply for all other ATs that share the same weapon power set with other ATs? Blasters and Corruptors for example, Tankers and Brutes, Scrappers and Stalkers. Also, I think how often I see a suggestion for Heroes to get an Mastermind type powerset says just how unique they are. Though obviously, when GR comes out, the suggestion will be almost non-existent.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
Absolutely, positively DISagree with almost all of your attack power suggestions. Dual Wield is part of my Thugs MMs. It fits them, it's part of what makes them fun to me. No, they don't do spectacular damage, but that's not the point.

Similarly, Necro - I have a Nec/Poison who got her powers thanks to a possession attempt by the spirit of an ancient Egyptian priest. She never has had, never needed, and wouldn't have a wand, staff, etc. The power comes from HER. A wand or staff would frankly ruin that feel.

... is a huge, and hugely *incorrect,* assumption on your part. For instance, Life Drain - as it sits now - fits my Necro MM *perfectly,* looking exactly like she's ripping some of the life from her opponent. A wand is *weak* by comparison. It'd be a sure-fire way to get me to stop playing that character.

is, again, a huge assumption on your part. I semi-agree with the idea for Nin - but hell, for mine? I'd love to have him have one of the *swords* to be a melee-mind.

Some of them, as alternate animations - fine. But some require a bit more than that, as I'm reading it, and I'm against having any of it be an all-out change.

(I also disagree with giving all the thugs motorcycles - I happen to like the existing animations.)
This is pretty close to my opinion as well.

Quote:
We all want wands
I hate it when people come into threads and make statements that seem to say the only source of Necro or Dark or a couple of other powersets *must* be from some magic item. No, they don't. Not only do those powers work just fne as coming inherently from within the character (Bill's descriptions above are classic) but there may also be a NON-MAGICAL source for them - after all, Vazh are not magical zombies.

Wands as an alternate animation across ATs - sure, why not, *if* BaBs can get it done without sacrificing other cooler things, like whole new powersets. But not limited to MMs, please. My characters who might wield a wand are Blasters and Corruptors and Defenders, only one is a MM. There is no reason to limit something like Wands to a single AT.

As far as the second thing Bill quoted,

Quote:
You're the brains of the operation. You don't go in with guns blazing.
Speak for yourself - my MMs have short attention spans and "always" go in guns ablazing. Just standing back and watching the bots or thugs or zombies have all the carnage-inducing fun sounds like the most boring thing in the world - may as well go watch a Steven Seagal movie.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ad Astra View Post
Just standing back and watching the bots or thugs or zombies have all the carnage-inducing fun sounds like the most boring thing in the world - may as well go watch a Steven Seagal movie.
Which brings something else up. When I initially tried playing a mastermind, I was nearly turned off of them completely by how boring I thought they were. Why? Because I was playing a Bots/FF - bubble, send in, not much as far as offense at the time (and still not a lot, but this was pre-vet rewards, even, so for attacks I had.... brawl.)

My thugs/poison, which I rolled up after talking with the folks in the mastermind section of the board, is a very active character - buffing, debuffing, bit of healing, and attacking. The "being in there, guns blazing" is a big part of why I love that character, and why she made it to 50 so quickly.


 

Posted

Good ideas, but rather than having the changes FORCED upon your character, they should be an OPTION! However, I'm not 100% sure if that level of customization is possible at the moment.


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Posted

hmm, now, see, this is counter to my consistent stands on matters.

Basically, I'd be for putting whips into the hands of scrappers, stalkers, brutes and tankers and the laser plasma rifle in the hands of blasters, defenders and corruptors.

I don't like power sources being ONLY available to one AT.

There's no reason that a person with a sword can't fight in a tankerish manner, for example.

to me, the uniqueness should be HOW the item/power is used, not the power/item itself.

In Masterminds case, the fact that they have henchman is what makes them unique

I'll never be for an AT only weapon with the possible exception of the Arachnos Maces, since it does make sense only Arachnos minions would have it


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ad Astra View Post
Vazh are not magical zombies.
Then again, they're not really zombies, either. They're more like flesh-covered robots, which would be why the Ghost Slaying Axe doesn't do extra damage to them (since they aren't undead)


http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

 

Posted

I don't WANT to be playing completely different sets whenever I roll out an MM.

I LIKE Dark Blast being similar to Necromancy, I LIKE Assault Rifle to be similar to Mercenaries, and I LIKE Archery going with Ninjas. You're asking the devs to do unnecessary work that would radically change character concepts.



 

Posted

I've always wanted to like masterminds, but have never really been able to get into one. I think I figured out why after I made a ninja/dark MM. The attacks that masterminds get aren't very interesting. For instance the attack skills ninja MMs get are snap shot, aimed shot, and fistful of arrows. I think it would be better if they had aimed shot, fistful of arrows, and blazing arrow. Or maybe even aimed shot, blazing arrow, and explosive arrow. I plan on not getting any of the attack skills and just getting night fall and soul tenticles because they're at least somewhat interesting.

Yes I understand that masterminds are supposed to be mainly about the pets. But I don't really want to feel like I'm sitting around picking my nose while they're fighting. Sure I can use my supportive powers but I find that just being completely supportive is boring. I never play my bots/pain MM anymore.

I remember how Castle said that Doms needed to be more damage oriented. I think MMs do too. When I play a mastermind I want to be like Brutal Legends where my character can kick *** too.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kojirodensetsu View Post
I remember how Castle said that Doms needed to be more damage oriented. I think MMs do too. When I play a mastermind I want to be like Brutal Legends where my character can kick *** too.
The problem is that MMs already are damage oriented. It's just that the overwhelming majority of their damage comes from their pets. And I don't see that changing any time soon due to the complete meltdown that would likely hit the MM player community if Castle reduced henchman damage just to buff the largely-skipped blasts.

Of course, if I had the opportunity, I'd love to revamp MMs entirely and try to bring them closer to their original design goal. And the best part is that it would largely have nothing to do with the henchmen themselves.

As for something more on topic...the only MM weapon change I'd still love to see is splitting each of the sets of three blasts into their own sub-pool and letting you mix and match, allowing things like Dual Pistols/Bots or Assault Rifle/Thugs.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
Then again, they're not really zombies, either. They're more like flesh-covered robots, which would be why the Ghost Slaying Axe doesn't do extra damage to them (since they aren't undead)
They aren't undead. They're just plain and simply DEAD.

On topic, I would really hate the bulk of the changes suggested, because they're based on a serious misreading of what a Mastermind is or could be, as well as what each powerset represents. Yes, Masterminds can currently very much be played as powerless leaders that base most of their clout on their henchmen. Simply don't take offensive powers. What's difficulty to replicate even now, much less with "weaker" weapons, is a personally strong Mastermind who can kick *** right along with his henchmen. This is an important part of it, and something that would really ruin most of my Masterminds if it were taken away.

Personally, I LOVE the Mercs Assault Rifle. My Mercs Mastermind is using the Redding Rail Rifle from Vanguard, and he just looks AMAZING with that long weapon. Similarly, my Thugs Mastermind looks right at home with both guns, and reducing him to just a figurehead would be really, really bad.

And, really, let's stop trying to make things shoot out of wands, please. No, not everyone wants wands, because not everyone likes that kind of typical wizard. Hell, not everyone who uses darkness is magical at all. Last I checked, the Vampyri were scientifically created.

I'm not against giving Masterminds something more, but I'd like to do that without making massive assumptions about what they should be.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by kojirodensetsu View Post
I plan on not getting any of the attack skills and just getting night fall and soul tenticles because they're at least somewhat interesting.
That what most MMs do. Though in the case of most MMs, they do it because the attack powers suck, not because they "don't look interesting".


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper View Post
That what most MMs do. Though in the case of most MMs, they do it because the attack powers suck, not because they "don't look interesting".
I love Alphas Pulse rifle...I just despise how LOW damage it does for such a STUPIDLY high end cost and recharge.
Seriously, I don't get how that's balanced at all...sure, it does knockback from time to time...if that's the reason behind its sub-par damage, get rid of the secondary right now and give it some decent damage, gods damnit...
With the endurance costs and damage as they are, its as if they DONT want you to take attack powers at all....


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Posted

I'd like to say that I'm saying all of this as a guy who put two of the bow attacks, All of fighting, stealth, and , Manuevers on my Nin/Traps MM and go hunting with no pets out just to be a bad-***. And can do pretty decent in melee(sorta, still an MM though, BUFF THOSE RANGED ATTACK DEVS!) I'm not saying anyone HAS to play a certain way, it's just the iconography of the MMs as defined by the fact that they have other people to handle the brunt of their problems for them.

And none of these ideas lessen that at all, it just gives them a different look, and most of the time only slightly different. As for the "we all want wands" thing, that was less specifically at masterminds, and more generally as "I think we can all agree the option to fire ranged/buff/control sets from varying items(i.e. wands) would be hella awesome" I'll do something more detailed later, as I'm on a library computer and have limited time, but I'll throw up some alternative suggestions. As for the movement powers, I think I have a fix for the need to have super jump in combat.


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha View Post
I love Alphas Pulse rifle...I just despise how LOW damage it does for such a STUPIDLY high end cost and recharge.
Seriously, I don't get how that's balanced at all...sure, it does knockback from time to time...if that's the reason behind its sub-par damage, get rid of the secondary right now and give it some decent damage, gods damnit...
With the endurance costs and damage as they are, its as if they DONT want you to take attack powers at all....
You know, I've suggested Mastermind attacks be buffed in the past, and people got nervous breakdowns over it. But how about we go the other way? Fine, they keep their crappy damage. Can we at least slash the COSTS of the attacks? They do diddly squat. Why do they cost so much? As it stands right now, Mastermind attacks are nothing more than sucker traps, actually REDUCING your performance by taking, slotting and using them. I have no problem with them doing very little, but they shouldn't cost so damn much. A fifth of my endurance bar for barely any damage is just absurd.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
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