Well, it really boils down to two factors.
The first one is this. Sure, a lot of people really like your arc, but there will always be someone out there who could genuinely dislike your Arc. With thousands of players in this game, there are many different opinions. Somebody out there could just not like your arc for one reason or another.
Factor two is very unlikely, but someone could have just been griefing you. Again, this is highly unreasonable, and would be pretty silly to think so, but it is a small possibility.
In my opinion, all these factors all lead up to the broken rating system. Arcs should not be rated by stars or scores, they should have just a simple "Yes/No" system, where you could either say "I liked this arc, so I give it a thumbs up" or "This arc wasn't very good, thumbs down." Instead, it's very easy to just walk up to a five-star arc, join, and then rate one-star and quit, bringing down the rating considerably.
Arc ID: 348998 - Becoming a villain
Arc ID: 373341 - To Save a Hero
Got Inf?
All it takes is one or two low ratings to knock a arc WAY down the list, even if it has a signifigant number of 5 star ratings especially if the "ratings pack" it is in is fairly tight. If you have an arc with 100 5 star ratings and one 1 star ratings, it drops to 4.96. No, that .04 isn't huge, but it becomes huge if the 100 (5 pages of listings) or so arcs "below" you on the list are running at 4.97-5. Drop in another 1 star rating and you lose another .04 and several more pages.
Mathmatically, to have a "5 star" rating you have to have a rating of 4.5 or up. This means that every rating below 5 stars requires a specific number of 5 star ratings to "bring it up" to 5 again:
For every 1 Star rating you need 10 5 Star rating to get above 4.5
For every 2 Star rating you need 8 5 Star ratings.
For every 3 Star rating you need 5 5 Star ratings.
For every 4 Star rating you need 3 5 star ratings.
However, ONLY 5 star ratings help you with this. Anything under that actually increases the number of ratings you need to "recoup" the loss and harms your chances of getting back to showing a 5 star average.
This means if an entire team of 8 pans your arc, you need 80 5 star ratings to get back into the 5 star range.
That's one reason it is so difficult to get an arc out of the "4 star doldrums," and insanely difficult to get one up out of the 3 Star range, much less even thinkign of getting a 1 or 2 star arc anywhere. It may be a good arc, it may be a great one, but the combination of lack of exposure (it's lost in the middle) and the sheer volume of 5 star ratings required to offset the lower ratings make it very difficult for it to climb out. When you add in "ratings momentum," the phenomenon where people tend to rate something exactly what it is already rated thanks to expectation bias caused by the rating and seeing the ratings of other people as being "accurate" though popularity, and the climb gets even harder.
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Numerous accounts of people getting 1- and 2- star votes ONLY when their arc is sitting at 5 stars would suggest that this is very likely. It happens for the exact reason the OP mentioned: Any 5-star arc is immediately more visible than a 4-star arc, and the easiest way to increase your own/your friend's arc's visibility is to get rid of any arc that is ahead of yours on the list.|
Originally Posted by Smash_Zone
Factor two is very unlikely, but someone could have just been griefing you. Again, this is highly unreasonable, and would be pretty silly to think so, but it is a small possibility.
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Yes, some people might not like your arc, for whatever reason, and sitting at 5 stars might increase expectations and gives your arc visibility among players who never would have deliberately sought it out as something they would be interested in playing, possibly increasing the chances of lower ratings. That doesn't exclude the fact that some people are just jerks.
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
I think the fact that a single rating can out weigh a larget number of ratings for sorting absurd. There a couple ways to fix this.
All Stories are published with a 1 vote zero stars. so it takes 9 5-star votes to get a 5 star rating.
-or-
Have the rating sort by. most number of 5 start votes, most number of 4 star votes, then least number of two star votes and least number of 1 star votes. That way a new rating will smack in the middle, and stories with more 5 star votes will always rate higher than a story with less no matter how many lesser votes come it.
The first is much more to implement. it just Total Stars / (count + 1)
Having 5 start should mean a number of people have rated it 5 stars not just 1.
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My theory is that in a completely non-griefing thought process, ratings aren't done in a vacuum. Oddly, every five star a rater has already given seems to be reducing that chance for future architects since the rater slowly becomes more critical over time. The bigger headache isn't the actual low rating but when no one comments and thus you can't improve.
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Originally Posted by HeroicGamer2
Has anyone noticed a trend with players giving out lower ratings on AE Arcs lately?
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Also, MA play overall has been on a downtrend. Even the new dev choice arcs don't seem to be getting as many plays, though it is important to note that there are a lot of Dev Choice arcs added in a shorter amount of time, so the plays are more spread out, but it still seems like overall they are getting less plays than a few months ago.
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I agree, I think that the current rating system needs an overhaul. With so many stories out there, the truely good ones get lost in the flotsam...|
Originally Posted by Smash_Zone
In my opinion, all these factors all lead up to the broken rating system.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Also, MA play overall has been on a downtrend.
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In the fallout of i16, alot of players who want good xp (not farmers but average everyday players) are now avoiding the AE like the plague. I sincerely hope that the AE System will be fixed, as I love what it can do for CoX!!!
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My feeling is that the ZOMG THEY RUINED THE AE hyperbole from people who were used to being PLed to 50 over the course of an afternoon has lead to only vaguely if at all informed people avoiding the MA as if it were a plague on XP when in fact it is not, if you're careful to take a second to choose your missions. And, as I've pointed out before, sometimes you can play this game for reasons other than mere XP - like "fun".
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Originally Posted by HeroicGamer2
My feeling is that i16 took a sledgehammer to the delicate glass beauty of the AE System.
In the fallout of i16, alot of players who want good xp (not farmers but average everyday players) are now avoiding the AE like the plague. I sincerely hope that the AE System will be fixed, as I love what it can do for CoX!!! |
I thought long and hard before responding to your comments Clave_Dark_5.
I have to respectfully disagree with you though...
I do think the AE System is broken.
I also think the AE Rating structure leaves a lot to be desired.
I realize that the devs were unhappy about people being Pled to 50 over the course of an afternoon, but something that people seem to forget is that often the dev response to problems is very heavy handed! The way the AE situation is being handled is just more of the same. 60 month veteran players may remember their powers being reduced in strength to approximately 25% of what they used to be to level the playing field. As much as I love this game, I really dislike many of the heavy handed acts the devs have taken over the years.
One last thing to think about:
NCSoft continues TO THIS DAY to advertise that you can level from 1 to 50 entirely within the AE System. Id say their actions contradict their statements.
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Nowhere do they say that you will level from 1 to 50 as quickly or easily as you would outside the AE system. So no, they're not contradicting themselves.
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Originally Posted by HeroicGamer2
NCSoft continues TO THIS DAY to advertise that you can level from 1 to 50 entirely within the AE System. Id say their actions contradict their statements.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Quote:
Honestly, they need to have some kind of warning on some AE missions.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Nowhere do they say that you will level from 1 to 50 as quickly or easily as you would outside the AE system. So no, they're not contradicting themselves.
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But, they are partially contridicting themselves, without proper warnings, new players could play and tweak with their arcs for hours, realize they are not leveling up, and not understand why. Not only are these xp changes stupid by design and Idea, but they are also not evident to those who are new to the game.
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I disagree with the first (reservedly, because the cut in XP for some foes down to naught was a pretty bad idea), but I'll agree with you on the second; I've seen a lot of good suggestions on how to change that.|
Originally Posted by HeroicGamer2
I do think the AE System is broken.
I also think the AE Rating structure leaves a lot to be desired. |
But I wouldn't call the thing broken, just "not functioning at level with its potential". I don't think the XP changes ruins it, just hampers it.
Still, thanks for replying with your brain instead of a flame.
Another part of the problem is that the names given for each rating are misleading. Four Stars says the arc is "Excellent". Anyone giving that rating I bet think that they are giving the arc a positive boost when in fact they are damaging any chance that arc has of being played. The shorter version is that any rating lower than a 5 decreases an arcs chance of being played and that is just a very poor system. I am certain that most players do not think they are hurting an arc by giving it four stars.
I've been seeing lots of 1-3 star ratings on my stuff lately and wondering where they've been coming from. An arc will sit at 5 stars for a few days, and then, BAM, it suddenly goes to the bottom of my list of published arcs with a couple ratings added on and zero to fifteen tickets to show.
Sad Tubbius. 
I'm out of signature space! Arcs by Tubbius of Justice are HERE: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=218177
Part of the problem is just plain old critical theory. Time and critics have agreed that, say, Steinbeck, Hemingway, and Faulkner are all great American authors. I have read all three, and can appreciate how all three are indeed great authors.
However, I just cannot get into Faulkner's writing. I find it overly difficult and hard to follow, and his ideas and thoughts just aren't that interesting to me. So I read Hemingway and Steinbeck on my own, with relish. I will probably make myself read more Faulkner, as I need to know him better for my job (writing and English teacher). But I don't enjoy the prospect.
Most people can't make such a separation, however. This is true for books and story arcs. If they don't like your approach to making a story arc, they can just bomb it- they won't note that you have well-nuanced foes, or phrasing, or missions, etc. They just like fighting different enemy types, or weren't into your storyline, etc. This whole situation is further exacerbated by 5-stars being the be-all, end-all of ratings in the AE. If you go to Netflix, any movie starred 3 and up (out of 5 stars) is considered a "like it" movie. Some people rate arcs here at 3 and 4 because they liked it as well. But getting rated as such can be seen as a failure in the current system. I know I get down when I get my arc 4-starred, as I know how people view ratings in game. But a 4 star should be a good thing, shouldn't it?
And that doesn't even go into people sabotaging others, etc. I'm not sure what the workaround is, either. How do you get people to recognize that three or four stars is okay, and to know such ratings means that your arc is probably okay?
Heck, this is an issue in the publishing world. I'm sure there a great writers out there trying to get published and aren't (each with a fun and new approach that isn't a Twilight or Harry Potter imitation). This happens in a system with gatekeepers as well, publishing houses and editors that should be able to know good writing when they see it (even if they do want to cash in on things).
To put a longish post short, I don't know that there is any workaround for AE. This is the issue whenever you have a large amount of content being put out for a limited amount of viewers. Some things will get noticed, others won't. Workarounds could be a better search system for the AE, and an actual reviewer of story arcs. Only problem is you can't make much money reviewing things, either.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Four stars is currently horrible only in the context of getting your arc seen. It's more of a search engine problem. Five-starred arcs get random plays, four-starred arcs rarely do. Every four-star rating you get means that you need another five-star rating to stay at five stars, and keep your arc visible to the general public.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Some people rate arcs here at 3 and 4 because they liked it as well. But getting rated as such can be seen as a failure in the current system. I know I get down when I get my arc 4-starred, as I know how people view ratings in game. But a 4 star should be a good thing, shouldn't it?
And that doesn't even go into people sabotaging others, etc. I'm not sure what the workaround is, either. How do you get people to recognize that three or four stars is okay, and to know such ratings means that your arc is probably okay? |
Arc players recognize that four stars is a decent rating. I think a lot of authors do to. But the search engine puts that arc behind any arc recently published by someone with a second account.
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To put a longish post short, I don't know that there is any workaround for AE. This is the issue whenever you have a large amount of content being put out for a limited amount of viewers. Some things will get noticed, others won't. Workarounds could be a better search system for the AE, and an actual reviewer of story arcs. Only problem is you can't make much money reviewing things, either.
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Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
Quote:
I dont think people think three or four star arcs are bad. But they are bombarded with 5 star ones, as those are spamming the top, and five stars is even better.|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
How do you get people to recognize that three or four stars is okay, and to know such ratings means that your arc is probably okay?
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It'd be like book stores only having their books sorted by popularity rather than genre and making you go up the stairs to the 5th story to get to those that are not judged as a super bestseller.
I dont know a method against it other than showing arcs by genre randomized and without stars, so you have to judge them by their 'cover' summary text, but as long as you have to explicitly look for something with a worse rating than what you get by the dozen on top of everything else, people wont play many 3 or 4 star arcs.
Yeah, something with how they sort arcs in the MA screen needs to be addressed.
When I go in to solo through some stuff, I sit and think about what I (might) want and then start searching with keywords or those 'genre buttons':
"I wonder what people have done that will fit into the catagory 'romance'?"
"Wonder if anyone's done an arc with William Burroughs references?" (I did find one btw)
and so on. If I just go "wonder what's popular and getting good ratings?" or just stare dumbly at what's thrown at me when I first open the window then I'll never see 98% of the stuff that players have made.
Four stars might be considered damning by faint praise or not, I'm not sure; my three arcs all have four-star ratings and when I don't bother to heavily push them on the forums I rarely (at best) get any plays whatsoever; partly due I'm sure to the lowered player population in the MA these days as well.
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That's kind of my point... there is not real effective way to weed through the five stars to the decent stories that are perhaps a little lower. Until that is fixed, anything less than a five star rating is going to bring an arc down. As an author, part of me can feel good that my arc has received pretty much 4s and 5s. But the part of me that sees it's only been rated 30 times since my putting it out in May knows all those 4 stars are holding it back.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
I dont think people think three or four star arcs are bad. But they are bombarded with 5 star ones, as those are spamming the top, and five stars is even better.
It'd be like book stores only having their books sorted by popularity rather than genre and making you go up the stairs to the 5th story to get to those that are not judged as a super bestseller. I dont know a method against it other than showing arcs by genre randomized and without stars, so you have to judge them by their 'cover' summary text, but as long as you have to explicitly look for something with a worse rating than what you get by the dozen on top of everything else, people wont play many 3 or 4 star arcs. |
The devs are taking some good steps, at least... I'm glad that they have guest authors coming in, are picking more dev choices, etc. They should have been doing that from the start to drum up its positive uses. It would also probably help to get the weekly newsletter up again, as they put that in the loader most of the time... then they could get people to review arcs in there and get some more attention to them.
More search terms as well. I know it's a work in progress, but I really hope they keep tweaking it... there are far too many things left on the shelf that need to be looked at throughout the game, unfortunately (and I'm saying that as a fan of the game, that thinks it's pretty good, etc. I'm just lamenting that more stuff can't get done at once... just like in my own creative work).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
I think the general exodus away from the ZOMG XP aspect of Architect is actually a good thing. The people who still play it are much more likely to actually be seeking properly-crafted experiences and good stories, as opposed to Behemoth Grind XYZ.
I think the real issue with the Architect is the crappy search feature. Even a four-option Mission Style you can search for with Silly Fun Sensible and Serious would make it much easier to find the sort of stories you want to play. I hate having to trawl through endless LOLSORANDUM arcs to find something I can take seriously, and I can only imagine the other side does too.
Having come to think about it, the rating system could use more categories than just "overall greatness", like rating story, enemies (canon = 3 stars?) and rewardingness separately.
So who wants a good story or good enemies can look for those and will also get a rough idea how much XP loss that will mean, while those that only want to rewarding arcs can do so as well, and the greatest story line ever doesnt have to vanish in the current 1-star section just because it required critters that give less XP.
IMO the key is originality and writing for a niche --- call it fanservice if you wish.
Some of my arcs are fairly kinky. Most contain large doses of comedy. Many are based on forums memes: I have a Jerk Hackers/Gone to the Americans story, a Lesbian Hellions story, a Kill Skuls story, and I am working on a Deth Kick story. Except for the Kill Skuls tale, which is very recent, and low level focused, all of these receive periodic plays, mostly from people who are looking for the sort of thing I make.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Hey all,
Has anyone noticed a trend with players giving out lower ratings on AE Arcs lately?
I have an arc that recently got booted from page 3 (AE Search with no filters) to the bottom of page 291 (with no filters). This is an arc that has had great feedback and ratings in the past. Hundreds of arcs with 5 stars and only played once are now in front of my arc with 100 individual account plays. That just seems wrong.
It also seems like it's impossible to get an arc noticed or played much these days. And as for getting played by 999+ individual player accounts... significantly less than a possibility! This is no doubt partly due to the nerfs that were intended to kill farming BUT also hurt legitimate play of the AE system.
Still, back to my original question: Are people rating arcs lower now? It seems like it, and as an author who's spent HOURS working on one special arc, it's downright discouraging! (Heck, I even built an insect-human dictionary so that custom critter dialog was consistent.)
[/Complain]
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