ATI HD 5770 vs. GeForce GTX 260
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2009-11-30 14:49 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
The GTX is the more powerful card, but it runs hotter and draws more power than the 5770, and the 5770 also supports DX11, whenever DX11 titles actually hit the shelves.
The 5770 is a pretty close match in capabilities to the 4850, but runs cooler and uses less power.
I intend to stay in Windows XP as long as it takes and the main game I play is COH, so DirectX 11 is not a concern whatsoever. Temperature and power may be, though. I believe the 9800gt crashes may have been temperature or power related.
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Two 5770 reviews. The xbit review compares the 5770 and the GTX 260; they come in at about the same class. So the question is: do you want ATI or do you want Nvidia?
(*Warning, gratuitous handwaving ahead*)
If a 9800 GT is the "entry point" for GR Ultra Mode, and a GTX 285 will run it maxed out without breaking a sweat, a GTX 260 sits right between them: 9800 GT < 9800 GTX+/GTS 250 < GTX 260 < GTX 275 < GTX 285. So either GTX 260 or 5770 should be able to run Ultra mode to some reasonable degree.
(*End handwaving; drive safely*)
Since ATI is now the official graphics partner for Paragon (instead of Nvidia), I would expect CoX GR to run better on an ATI board, or at least not have any difficulties. However, the game on the Live servers does have "graphical oddities" with ATI at the present moment. If you want prettiness *right now*, the GTX 260 is your board. If you can put up with no water effects, etc for a couple months until GR, go with the 5770.
Your problem better not be power. If you can't feed a 9800 GT, you're not going to be able to run a GTX 260. The 5770 sips less power than the 260, but it should be at least as much draw as a 9800 GT. If your system is hot enough that it's conking out a 9800 GT, those two cards are going to be too hot as well: tie down your cabling, clear out your air paths, and evict all dust-bunnies!
Out of curiosity, what brand were the 9800 GTs? Were they also XFX like those listings you linked?
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I don't believe AMD/ATI is the "Official" graphics partner, as there was a rather awesome nvidia booth at herocon. What I believe is going on is there less exclusive focus exclusively on nvidia in order to achieve a higher overall compatibility and open themselves up to a larger hardware audience.|
Originally Posted by Human_Being
Two 5770 reviews. The xbit review compares the 5770 and the GTX 260; they come in at about the same class. So the question is: do you want ATI or do you want Nvidia?
(*Warning, gratuitous handwaving ahead*) If a 9800 GT is the "entry point" for GR Ultra Mode, and a GTX 285 will run it maxed out without breaking a sweat, a GTX 260 sits right between them: 9800 GT < 9800 GTX+/GTS 250 < GTX 260 < GTX 275 < GTX 285. So either GTX 260 or 5770 should be able to run Ultra mode to some reasonable degree. (*End handwaving; drive safely*) Since ATI is now the official graphics partner for Paragon (instead of Nvidia), I would expect CoX GR to run better on an ATI board, or at least not have any difficulties. However, the game on the Live servers does have "graphical oddities" with ATI at the present moment. If you want prettiness *right now*, the GTX 260 is your board. If you can put up with no water effects, etc for a couple months until GR, go with the 5770. Your problem better not be power. If you can't feed a 9800 GT, you're not going to be able to run a GTX 260. The 5770 sips less power than the 260, but it should be at least as much draw as a 9800 GT. If your system is hot enough that it's conking out a 9800 GT, those two cards are going to be too hot as well: tie down your cabling, clear out your air paths, and evict all dust-bunnies! |
I personally <3 nvidia. Nothing against ATI or anything...I just like blue to red....and Ironicly Red to blue.
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definitly check out your power supply then. These cards use 6 pin PCI Express power connectors, so it's best if the PS provides those. the GTX 260 recommends 500W min, and based on the max power listed for the card, could potentially need just over 15Amps of 12v power from the supply. it has TWO of those power connectors (so check that the 12v rail is up to at least that much plus some for your drives etc.) |
Originally Posted by Leandro
I intend to stay in Windows XP as long as it takes and the main game I play is COH, so DirectX 11 is not a concern whatsoever. Temperature and power may be, though. I believe the 9800gt crashes may have been temperature or power related.
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The 5770 is less, but still ATI is recommending something like a 450W overall power supply, with a 75W(just over 6 amps) PCI-Express power connector
One option is to try out asus's power supply calculator http://support.asus.com/PowerSupplyC...Language=en-us
If buying a new supply, and you can find one for reasonable price that is on the makers 'certified' lists http://ati.amd.com/certifiedPSU
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Look at the bottom of the City of Heroes homepage. There used to be a green Nvidia The Way It's Meant To Be Played badge there. Now Paragon is wearing ATI red. I don't think that would be there to show CoX was "agnostic" between the two rivals.|
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
I don't believe AMD/ATI is the "Official" graphics partner, as there was a rather awesome nvidia booth at herocon. What I believe is going on is there less exclusive focus exclusively on nvidia in order to achieve a higher overall compatibility and open themselves up to a larger hardware audience.
I personally <3 nvidia. Nothing against ATI or anything...I just like blue to red....and Ironicly Red to blue. |
I've cheered for the green team for years, but if ATI is who is giving the support to Paragon now...
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That's just ad space. nVidia stopped paying for ad space, ATI started. Doesn't say, at all, "we make the game better for this vs this card".
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Originally Posted by Human_Being
Look at the bottom of the City of Heroes homepage. There used to be a green Nvidia The Way It's Meant To Be Played badge there. Now Paragon is wearing ATI red. I don't think that would be there to show CoX was "agnostic" between the two rivals.
I've cheered for the green team for years, but if ATI is who is giving the support to Paragon now... |
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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That's exactly what the The Way It's Meant To Be Played program is. Nvidia offers support and assistance with drivers and development; optimizing the game to work on Nvidia architecture. The badge indicates to customers that Nvidia is most-compatible with the game.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
That's just ad space. nVidia stopped paying for ad space, ATI started. Doesn't say, at all, "we make the game better for this vs this card".
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EDIT: Link.
Exerpt:
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| NVIDIA debuted a new consumer awareness program at GDC, "NVIDIA: The Way It's Meant to be Played." The program is being initiated to draw attention to those games that were created on and developed for NVIDIA graphics, letting gamers know that the very best gaming experience can be found on games powered by the GeForce GPU. Games played on NVIDIA hardware not only look better, but play better and allow gamers to experience the game the way the game developer intended. |
The big problem with The Way It's Meant to Be Played is that it often turns from Optimizing games for one vendors cards, into sabotaging the game against other vendors cards.
Of course, if I'm entering the thread, you probably already know I'm going to say buy the AMD card. It's already supporting DirectX 11 / OpenGL 3.2, there's some room for more speed in the drivers through shader optimizations, and it probably will use less power overall... and output less heat... if you are worried about turning your room into an oven.
That being said, if your a fan of games like Borderlands or Batman: AA, you'll probably want to buy the Nvidia card.
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Hello all this is my first post in the tech section (I normally frequent the art section) as it was |
Originally Posted by Human_Being
Two 5770 reviews. The xbit review compares the 5770 and the GTX 260; they come in at about the same class. So the question is: do you want ATI or do you want Nvidia?
(*Warning, gratuitous handwaving ahead*) If a 9800 GT is the "entry point" for GR Ultra Mode, and a GTX 285 will run it maxed out without breaking a sweat, a GTX 260 sits right between them: 9800 GT < 9800 GTX+/GTS 250 < GTX 260 < GTX 275 < GTX 285. So either GTX 260 or 5770 should be able to run Ultra mode to some reasonable degree. (*End handwaving; drive safely*) Since ATI is now the official graphics partner for Paragon (instead of Nvidia), I would expect CoX GR to run better on an ATI board, or at least not have any difficulties. However, the game on the Live servers does have "graphical oddities" with ATI at the present moment. If you want prettiness *right now*, the GTX 260 is your board. If you can put up with no water effects, etc for a couple months until GR, go with the 5770. Your problem better not be power. If you can't feed a 9800 GT, you're not going to be able to run a GTX 260. The 5770 sips less power than the 260, but it should be at least as much draw as a 9800 GT. If your system is hot enough that it's conking out a 9800 GT, those two cards are going to be too hot as well: tie down your cabling, clear out your air paths, and evict all dust-bunnies! |
just brought to my attention 5 minutes ago that a section for tech stuff even exists.
Wanted to point out quick that the 9800GT is just a rebranded 8800GT. Some of the 98's were
fabbed on the newer 55nm process but most were not. A quick bios refresh and added support
for hybrid SLI if that matters to anyone and that's about it. Otherwise same specs.
Also that is good advice to clean out the dust from any fans and tidy up your wiring so as to not
obstruct airflow as a can of compressed air is only like $6 and the wiring only costs you time.
Finally the 5770 will run on significantly less power and produce less heat and is ready for the new
DX11 and Open GL standards while the 260 is not. I am for the most part brand agnostic (I buy what
is the best at the time for myself and my clients) but right now ATI is the way to go in my opinion...
until we see how the new crop of Nvidia cards stack up.
The only con I see for ATI is the water bug (did they ever fix that thing?) that will disable fancy water
and sewer effects when you turn other settings up.
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Yes and no.|
The only con I see for ATI is the water bug (did they ever fix that thing?) that will disable fancy water and sewer effects when you turn other settings up. |
Yes, the bug has been fixed in the Ultra Mode graphics engine. The Going Rogue demo was ran atop the 4870 GPU architecture.
No, the bug has not yet been addressed in the current engine mode. There still are some visual oddities when splashing through water on Radeon Cards.
***
and... Maybe: At one point during the Going Rogue video the Ultra Mode enhancements were turned off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SItM3...eature=channel
In the same location that the video took place, the developer was splashing his blaster through some water. What I didn't catch was whether or not the water was still in shot when the Ultra Mode graphics were turned off.
Then there's also the slides that were shown. http://picasaweb.google.com/stephen....ogueSGallery02
One of the slides shows the difference between Ultra Mode water and current engine water : http://picasaweb.google.com/stephen....65964494501090
What we don't know is if these screenshots were taken on an Nvidia system or an ATi system. If they were taken on an ATi system, then the water should be fixed with an upcoming engine revision.
***
Edit: yes. Around the 18:50 mark the Ultra Mode optimizations are turned off and the developer does a 360 pan. His shot over the water is brief, and there is actually some question on what we saw as the person recording the demonstration has zoomed in on the character and we only have a brief shot of the water pool.
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Being that I attended the con and it was asked about, it was a ATI rig. I ask about the compatibilities and they stated all the little visual problems that exist when using ATI cards have been fixed. As I said earlier they are just working themselves out of a hardware hole they dug for themselves.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Yes and no.
Yes, the bug has been fixed in the Ultra Mode graphics engine. The Going Rogue demo was ran atop the 4870 GPU architecture. No, the bug has not yet been addressed in the current engine mode. There still are some visual oddities when splashing through water on Radeon Cards. *** and... Maybe: At one point during the Going Rogue video the Ultra Mode enhancements were turned off: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SItM3...eature=channel In the same location that the video took place, the developer was splashing his blaster through some water. What I didn't catch was whether or not the water was still in shot when the Ultra Mode graphics were turned off. Then there's also the slides that were shown. http://picasaweb.google.com/stephen....ogueSGallery02 One of the slides shows the difference between Ultra Mode water and current engine water : http://picasaweb.google.com/stephen....65964494501090 What we don't know is if these screenshots were taken on an Nvidia system or an ATi system. If they were taken on an ATi system, then the water should be fixed with an upcoming engine revision. *** Edit: yes. Around the 18:50 mark the Ultra Mode optimizations are turned off and the developer does a 360 pan. His shot over the water is brief, and there is actually some question on what we saw as the person recording the demonstration has zoomed in on the character and we only have a brief shot of the water pool. |
D: Toss me a hai @DarkNat My Fify glory: Renzer Dark/Dark Corr., Renzro Dark/Dark Def., Amartasu Dark/Dark Scrap.Less important ones: Fire/Fire Blaster,Ice/Ice Blaster,Ele/Ele Brute, Mind/Storm Troll,Fire/Kin Corr.,Bots/FF MM., DB/Regen Scrap.
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I missed that part. Thanks for confirming this.
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Originally Posted by ShadowNate
Being that I attended the con and it was asked about, it was a ATI rig. I ask about the compatibilities and they stated all the little visual problems that exist when using ATI cards have been fixed. As I said earlier they are just working themselves out of a hardware hole they dug for themselves.
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Quick reply before I head to work, with my system specs.
The two 9800 GTs were from XFX. The distributor where I bought them told me they had many of those returned as faulty, on a variety of systems.
The power supply is a 550W PowerCooler. While gaming, it only has to feed an Asus P5KPL-AM SE motherboard, an overclocked Pentium Dual Core E5200 (Wolfdale core, running at 3.25GHz per core, stock voltage), 2 sticks of Kingston RAM, one 500GB SATA HD, and one PCI card (wireless adapter).
The 9800 GTs were crashing even with the processor at stock speed, 2.5GHz.
Temperature inside the case is not an issue, I clean the humongous fan of my processor every few months, and it has plenty of breathing room. The 9800 GT would jump to 80°C after fifteen minutes of gameplay, though. The card itself ran hot, not the system.
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My history of purchasing video cards goes like this: GeForce 2, GeForce 5200FX, GeForce 6600 GT, GeForce 7600 GS, GeForce 8600 GT, GeForce 9800 GT. So you can see there's a preference for NVIDIA, which was based on: (1) I hated the driver interface of the Radeon cards that I saw, (2) NVIDIA was supposed to be the better performing company. Right now, I hear the drivers are doing a lot better and that ATI are making better cards, so I have no "wants" one way or the other. I've switched between AMD and Intel processors plenty of times based on performance alone, so I don't have a "fanboi" mindset for either company.
| So the question is: do you want ATI or do you want Nvidia? |
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Oh, ouch. Black eye for XFX.|
Originally Posted by Leandro
The two 9800 GTs were from XFX. The distributor where I bought them told me they had many of those returned as faulty, on a variety of systems.
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| The power supply is a 550W PowerCooler. While gaming, it only has to feed an Asus P5KPL-AM SE motherboard, an overclocked Pentium Dual Core E5200 (Wolfdale core, running at 3.25GHz per core, stock voltage), 2 sticks of Kingston RAM, one 500GB SATA HD, and one PCI card (wireless adapter). |
Don't know about the 260, but by mistake Dell sent us a 240 replacement card (which we swapped back for the 9800) and it ran HOT HOT HOT! Don't have temperatures but we have back to back computers and the off side from the 240 had to change into tshirt and shorts while playing City.
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I was PM'd this article: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/..._card_review/1
Performance is near identical. Temperature testing says that 5770 also goes over 80°C under full load, so no difference there. Power consumption is a huge difference, 270W under full load. So I'm leaning towards the 5770.
Thanks everyone for all the tips. I'm going to get the card tomorrow at 2pm, so still time to show me some more stuff to change my mind or cement my choice...
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I would like to remind everyone that's the power of the entire system, running FurMark (an OpenGL graphics demo/GPU burn in software) and not just the video card. It's also the AC wattage as measured at the wall. |
Originally Posted by Leandro
I was PM'd this article: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/..._card_review/1
Performance is near identical. Temperature testing says that 5770 also goes over 80°C under full load, so no difference there. Power consumption is a huge difference, 270W under full load. So I'm leaning towards the 5770. Thanks everyone for all the tips. I'm going to get the card tomorrow at 2pm, so still time to show me some more stuff to change my mind or cement my choice... |
The actual DC power draw of a 5770 under FurMark is around 80 watts.
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$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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The GTX 260 and GTS 240 are no relation to each other. The GTX 260 uses the G200b chip and is the beginning offering for Nvidia's current upper-range products. The GT 240 uses the GT215 chip, a severely cut-down derivation of a G200b, and is a piece of junk. The GT 240 is supposed to replace the 9600 GT in the market, and nominally will perform at that level. However, it's made at the same 40 nm manufacturing resolution that is giving the ATI 58xxs and Nvidia G300 such fits. Defects in process are supposed to be high and result in a sizable population of shipped chips that run hot in order to be pushed to their rated speed.
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Originally Posted by Peterbilt
Don't know about the 260, but by mistake Dell sent us a 240 replacement card (which we swapped back for the 9800) and it ran HOT HOT HOT! Don't have temperatures but we have back to back computers and the off side from the 240 had to change into tshirt and shorts while playing City.
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Well be aware that the G310 nVidia video card is now out in some OEM system. It is NOT based on a G300 GPU or anything even derivative of it. It's a 64-bit DDR2 based card with 16 SPs, Dx10.1 and in all other respecs the same as the G210, possibly yet another renaming.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Don't have time for a very long winded post, I will say though I've been using a EVGA 216 Core GeForce 260 GTX now for about a year and it runs nice. It gets a bit warm, but the performance on just one is nice, I haven't found a game yet on my current system I can't play at max that doesn't look great. I've actually put one of these into three separate systems over the past year building for friends and not a problem with a one.
It does require quite a bit of power though (though so does my mobo tbh) and its huge (width of my mobo easy maybe bigger its a ATX size mobo 12.00" by 9.60"). So really make sure you can fit it in your case.
But I know a certain website related to eggs has a decent price on them currently.
No, the GTX 260 isn't huge at 10.5" in length.
The HD 5970 is HUGE, topping out at 12.1" in length and that's still isn't the max length for the ATX standard.
It's just that most case manufacturers acknowledge the fact that cards of such length are rare. In the case (no pun intended) of long, very high end videocards the assumption is that if you can afford that, you can afford a large gamer case to install it in.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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That's exactly what it is.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Well be aware that the G310 nVidia video card is now out in some OEM system. It is NOT based on a G300 GPU or anything even derivative of it. It's a 64-bit DDR2 based card with 16 SPs, Dx10.1 and in all other respecs the same as the G210, possibly yet another renaming.
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My last video card upgrade went awry and I had to return two GeForce 9800gt in a row; they would work fine for a few hours and then crash the whole system. This has put a dent on my confidence with NVIDIA, and I'm seeing lots of reviews pointing that ATI is developing the better boards now. So I call upon our resident forum gurus (BillZ, are you there?) to give me advice on my next purchase, since I've been without a video card for weeks now, and playing with the integrated Intel chipset blows chunks.
It comes down to two boards that are at basically the same price, $265 vs. $269:
XFX ATI HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB GDDR5
http://www.netwaveargentina.com.ar/p...id_product=190
XFX GeForce GTX 260 Core Edition 896MB GDDR3
http://www.netwaveargentina.com.ar/p...?id_product=53
The performance comparisons I've seen put those two cards neck to neck. I'm looking for some testimonials from people with these boards.
Do they run hot?
How much power do they drain from the PSU?
Are they noisy/quiet?
Anyone had an issue with them and had to return one?
Any other comments?
I'll be getting the board this wednesday, so any advice will be appreciated. I'm still leaning towards NVIDIA, but I'm very open to changing my mind.
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This is what 3700 heroes in a single zone looks like.
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