Aion's PvPvE concept

Pretty much

It would be amusing to see the howling. Imagine if all PvE builds were harder to soft cap for defense, if empaths had heal decay so spamming healing aura was less effective, that all melees had mez resistance instead of protection, powers on some primary sets were doing less than than epic or pool powers, many debuffs were near useless, the exaggerated travel suppression, etc. Yeah, people would quit in droves. And yet, I'm always surprised to see some hardcore PvE players act surprised when the majority of the PvP community left when these changes were implemented.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

That, and Im pretty sure we told the Devs that exact same notion. That rolling these changes with the PvE crowd would absolutely destroy their game, but it would be an amusing implementation if anything.

They completely ignored the issue, citing that they were happy with the changes. Though thats obviously in a PvP environment only.

what mac is suggesting, i did.
i went over to the badges forum on my second acct a few days after getting my third and "final" ban on this account. i went on to suggest that competition for badges was ruining the game and that players should only be allowed to have a certain number of badges.

the thread got to be about 10 pages long before they realized who i was (ZOMG BAD PPPER), and went on for about 13 pages before it got locked.

it was pretty awesome.

My biggest problem testing I13 was the lack of bridging between PvE and PvP. I was a fan of making PvP more casual, but the new system all but gutted holds and stuns. I was surprised when holds barely had any affect. The devs changed it to be 4 seconds... and that's about it. Heck, I could take everything else if it hadn't been for holds. As it was wholesale, most of the changes where for the concession of the PvE crowd, with very little concession to the PvP crowd. That's not so much of a bridge as it is the "occupation of Poland" (not to use Godwin's Law).

I'll support anything that blends the two together within certain constraints. Hell, it worked fine for DAoC. For example, I understand travel suppression, as loathe as it is, to balance SS and SJ with things like Fly. OTOH, the aforementioned pitiful Hold durations, Heal Decay, and other PvP-only systems need some serious reconsideration. Right now the system's not so much Rock-Paper-Scissors as much as it is Rock-Bigger Rock.

I was with you until you said you understood travel suppression, and your reasoning behind it. I would've sped fly up instead of slowing everything else down, but hey I guess that'd require having a brain.

Whatever works pal, speed up something or slow something else down. But hey, when you insult someone's intelligence it's easy to see why people are so willing to extend olive branches, make bridges, or for a dev to actually read feedback

They couldn't speed up flight because of how the power works - the flight cap is slower than the SS or SJ caps simply because the system can't handle it being faster. Thing about travel powers is they're all equally viable for out-of-combat movement, but for in-combat movement you just can't beat SJ+SS because of all the powers available to players. It was like that before the changes, it's still like that.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

*clap*

really? you should pay more attention to how they pve people cry about how taskforces are too hard, accolades are too hard to get. I remember when they changed the stf so the avs were un-mezable. You should have seen the nerd rage.

I like the GR idea but I think we should flip the suggestion. Logic tells us that they are not going to make changes that inherantly will not make them money. Here is what I propose.

GR is an additional purchase, like COV was at launch an supposidly a whole new world accessable to heroes and villians. If Praetorian Earth includes pvp zones (lets hope) why not have I12 ish rules there? That would be a huge selling point to attract the old pvpers who left. I don't think it would be hard to do as we can get pretty close to i12 in arena with toggles. They could market the expansion with "NEW PVP MECHANICS"..trust me I know a lot of people who would come back to this game and pay 14.99 a month again if they had an option like that. They could limit it to the GR world only. That would boost sales to current subscribers as well. I know I would buy GR if that were included. I am sure a lot of subscribers are going to buy it regardless but if you want to capture your lost revenue, give them a reason to buy and continue to pay.

elaborate, cause that can be interpreted in 200 different ways, hush.

I'm pretty sure they can give us checkboxes for everything except:

1. Mez system
2. Damage balancing
3. Unresisted damage and debuffs

Unfortunately, without those three things you're never going to get even close to the old system. I suppose an argument could be made for damage balancing being a "good" thing (since it doesn't fundamentally change how damage works, it just changes which powers and powersets are best), but the new mez system severely hampers powersets based on offensive toggles (hello, Rad and Storm) and the lack of unresisted damage (hello, Blasters) and unresisted debuffs (hello, Defenders) means that even if you got rid of DR and free base resists, if you brought a lineup similar to an I12 sonic team (2 Emps, 2 Sonics, 2 Rads, 2 Blasters, and no Kins since travel suppression is an all-or-nothing deal these days) everyone would have capped resists and the only useful damage type would be Psi since you couldn't meaningfully chew through those resists. Just look at the ladder matches people tried to run before we got a "no heal decay" option - getting kills against a team with a competent Emp was difficult unless you employed one or two very specific tactics, and that's pretty one-dimensional.

Ideally I'd like to see PvP base resists removed completely, so Sonic and Therm shields would still be useful under DR. I don't see them removing DR completely from the game, so they can't balance around the assumption that everyone will play with DR off. These days if you want unresisted damage, you either AS someone or you slot procs in your attacks. I don't think it would be too bad if they added the 10% (or even 5%) unresisted damage back to Blaster attacks, and put unresisted damage on Scourge and crits again, but I'm really starting to think campaigning for meaningful changes will ultimately be a lost cause, because whatever changes they have planned for GR probably won't be what we're asking for. The only thing I can think of that suggests otherwise is knowing how absolutely ****** base raids would be under the current rules, so either they're going to change PvP with the nuances of base raids in mind, or they're going to change base raids to "work well" with the new system (guess which seems more likely?).

Talked to Sunstorm about that a while back - he said it's very unlikely simply because setting up a new server is time-consuming and expensive, and re-purposing one of the existing live servers for PvP wouldn't go over well with the players on that server. I still think they could just repurpose training room 2 (keep the character copy tool so people can dupe IOs and copy characters at will, but keep it on the same build as the live servers so players don't have to worry about losing access during betas), or add a very limited third server. However, I wouldn't hold my breath - the best we can ask for at this point that wouldn't require a new server would be cross-server arena and zones.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

I second what he said about the drop rates for NPCs. Also, if any ideas from other games were to be transferred or copied in some form to CoX, I hope it is from Guild Wars and not from Aion. I played, and still do Aion since closed beta and I am currently letting that account expire and I will not renew. For PvE, Aion has nothing on CoX. However, IMO, the game with the best PvP out there is Guild Wars.

The concept of competitive missions is awesome. The concept of Alliance Battles is excellent. I would like to see zone PvP changed so there are an equal number of players on both sides, and the server engine would pick at random who joins, similar to Random Arenas in Guild Wars. Yet, there woud be mutiple instances of zone PvP going on at once. So if you dont get on in one run, you would join another run that starts, say 2-3 minutes after. The fighting in the PvP zone would be timed and would conclude once the timer reaches 0. THe game would handout scores to each side based on kills and/or objectives reached in the zone.

Frankly, Guild Wars' PvP is so so so popular and active 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There has to be a reason. I love a vast amount of aspects from Guild Wars PvP. If any game has to teach other MMOs about handling PvP , that is the game.

I know nothing about Guild Wars. I left Aion 3 weeks into the release once I realized how painfully redundant it all was. Look, it's a tayga with another adjective in front of it! But, I enjoyed the team PvP in the game. I actually enjoyed having to watch my back while I was fighting NPCs. I just hated the PvE game. When it comes down to it, I'll take good PvE over PvP, but I'd love to have both: hence this thread.

I hope the devs keep their eyes open for ideas - especially simple things they can do to make life better for PvP, and perhaps even attract more to try it out.

The timed instance does sound intriguing.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

I would be the happiest player in the game if this were the case...i have alot of corrupters. Anyway, the only unresited dmg left in the game is the critical part of AS for stalkers. Everything else is resisted. It would be nice to see this change ...but with the new dmg formulas...giving blasters, corrupters (scourge) partially unresisted dmg would be WAY OP. Imagine the spikes a bunch of psi blasters with its delayed dmg being paritaly unresisted ....they would wreck everything.

Point taken. Now let's throw out a "what if"...

Assuming Scrapper crits are currently resisted (I'm not sure, can anyone confirm?), flag them as unresisted, flag Stalker crits as unresisted (not just AS), and flag a small portion of melee attacks from Tankers and Brutes as unresisted. This, when combined with the -range from taunt plus the suggested 2-second suppression from being hit by a melee attack, would help to balance out melee ATs by allowing them to deal more damage in melee. This also somewhat helps balance out the fact that Fury is fail in PvP right now.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."

That acctually makes tons of sense...the only thing is..is that scrappers currently with there range dmg output, tanks as well (as much if not more then fire blasters when crits for scrappers with pyre mastery) they would most def. have to tone tone down the range dmg for this to work...because if not..Fire/Regen/Fire Scrappers would wreck EVEYTHING lol. But yea this formual would def work.

@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."