Ultra-mode video card shopping guide
By
5th_Player,
Posted on: 2009-11-25 11:21 in Developers' Corner
Not being overly savvy when it comes to graphics cards, I have to ask:
How would a Nvidia GeForce GTX 260 do as far as Ultra-Mode is concerned?
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See first post in thread or are you looking for a frame rate?
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So going with a 512m Radeon 5770 instead of a 1g one should be "okay"? I'm peering at one that's $119 with rebate, so...
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Memory helps when a game has lots of large highly detailed, uncompressed textures. The more memory a card has, the more textures it can store on card which reduces the need to transfer the texture from main memory.
In the case of Ultra Mode with this game, more memory doesn't help, it's shader power that's needed. The only talk about improved textures is "marking" some as reflective. |
The saga continues... I got a smaller video card: a single slot with a decent heatsink: the HIS HD5770 from a local supplier only to find that the tail edge of the heatsink hit the fan assembly by 15mm or so. It only just contacted it too. It almost fit!
I was so annoyed.
Thank fully I'm getting a store credit.
There are more pictures and further measurements of my computer internals here.
The tech support identified the case as a BTX case and suggested a 5670 card.
Here's the dreaded $64 question. Will it run CoX/UM? Or should I switch to nVidia card or just forget it as a joke and sell the blasted system?
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Dang nabbit.
If only I had at least a HINT about Ultra-Mode in the works, I could have achieved the Step-Up program for EVGA, and replace my GTX 260 with a 285, or maybe, a 295................
Looks like I'm gonna need to get me another 260 for SLI, depending on the response to SLI compatibility.
(b^_^)b
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That reply was for the poster who had a card that was less powerful than the 9800 GT (that Posi said was minimum for UM) but had "a bit more memory". |
Originally Posted by Psyte
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If budget is a concern, sacrifice amount of memory for faster memory and/or a more powerful GPU. The HD 5770 has 30% more raw shader power, 30% more raw texture power and 20% more raw pixel power than the HD 5750. That translates into about a 15% performance improvement in games in general. The HD 5770 is about 50% faster in games than the 9800 GT.
The lower amount of memory will impact performance some at high resolution, with AA enabled as those settings will reduce the amount of memory available for keeping textures and polygon data on the card, forcing the need to retransmit them over the PCIe bus. The actual performance hit varies by game, quality settings in the game, game resolution and AA mode. This article from last year at Tom's Hardware talks about this and test a few games to show the impact.
Also worth noting here, the HD 5770 does use around 20-25 watts more power than the HD 5750 (but still 10 watts less than a 9800 GT). Also if you are running a 32-bit OS then a 1GB video card may impact how much of your system RAM the OS will see. Shouldn't be a problem if you are only running with 2GB or less of system RAM.
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Again, read the first post in thread. Posi states that the GTX 260 is good for mid range UM settings. |
Originally Posted by zII_HITMAN_IIz
Dang nabbit.
If only I had at least a HINT about Ultra-Mode in the works, I could have achieved the Step-Up program for EVGA, and replace my GTX 260 with a 285, or maybe, a 295................ Looks like I'm gonna need to get me another 260 for SLI, depending on the response to SLI compatibility. (b^_^)b |
I have no idea what other details you all want. Everyone's rig is different, the game has a slew of graphics settings and everyone's threshold of acceptable performance is different.
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Mmmm ... Granny Smith's FTW! (everytime I review this thread, this post just makes me think of apple pie and apple crisp ... and the wonderful juicy, tart, crisp Granny Smith apple ... yummy!)|
Originally Posted by Agonist_NA
... I would have wasted a lot less time comparing Red Delicious applies to Granny Smith apples (not quite apples to oranges you see...though not quite the same apples to apples either).
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Dude, you got a Dell. |
Originally Posted by Dark Shade
The saga continues... I got a smaller video card: a single slot with a decent heatsink: the HIS HD5770 from a local supplier only to find that the tail edge of the heatsink hit the fan assembly by 15mm or so. It only just contacted it too. It almost fit!
I was so annoyed. Thank fully I'm getting a store credit. There are more pictures and further measurements of my computer internals here. The tech support identified the case as a BTX case and suggested a 5670 card. Here's the dreaded $64 question. Will it run CoX/UM? Or should I switch to nVidia card or just forget it as a joke and sell the blasted system? |
Your first problem is you can't use a card with a double wide bracket due to the motherboard being BTX. Doesn't look like there's a bracket slot to the left of the PCIe slot.
The second problem is the CPU is located such that a double wide cooler on the GPU would interfere with the CPU heatsink. Most manufacturers assume that this isn't a problem.
Before you think about the HD 5670 you should check out the HD 5750 cards. They are a little shorter than the HD 5770. This one may fit your case. It's about 1.6cm shorter and only the fan cage sticks out a bit. Of course this assumes the card pictured is the card they actually sell. You can take an up close look at the card here and get an idea how much the fan sticks out and where. Use the card's edge connector (the part of the card you stick into the PCIe slot) as a rough guide.
And for your next question, yes the HD 5750 should be powerful enough to run UM, it's about 30% more powerful than the 9800 GT that Posi listed as minimum requirement for UM.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
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Quote:
When you say it almost fit, did it not physically fit, period, or did it just make contact with the fan shroud while still inserting properly? If it just contacts the shroud but otherwise fits, you might actually be ok. If the contact is fairly trivial, allows the card to insert and doesn't much impact the airflow of the card or CPU, you're actually fine. If you still have the card, and it will plug in and all, get us a pic of that. I'd like to see it.
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Originally Posted by Dark Shade
The saga continues... I got a smaller video card: a single slot with a decent heatsink: the HIS HD5770 from a local supplier only to find that the tail edge of the heatsink hit the fan assembly by 15mm or so. It only just contacted it too. It almost fit!
I was so annoyed. Thank fully I'm getting a store credit. There are more pictures and further measurements of my computer internals here. The tech support identified the case as a BTX case and suggested a 5670 card. Here's the dreaded $64 question. Will it run CoX/UM? Or should I switch to nVidia card or just forget it as a joke and sell the blasted system? |
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
So I have a 22' monitor which I run at 1920X1080; if I wanted to run each setting as Ultra (shader quality, occlusion, water, reflections, etc), and given the comments about shaders above, would I need a 5850?
System specs: HP e925T, 6 GB RAM, Windows 7 (64-bit), gfx card: ATI 4350; am assuming
its an ATX box.. so if a 5850 were the only card I could use, would it fit? And, from a power supply perspective, can any brand fit in an HP or are there restrictions?
Personally, if I can use a 57xx, it would be great due to the price difference (plus the fact that I have to buy a power supply), but I want something that won't be taxed even if I have ultrax maxed at a hami raid.
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e9250t yes? Well I found a service manual with pics of your interior. It's still hard to judge for absolute certain but it *looks* like a standard size PSU would work in your box. From what I could find on the mobo specs, it uses a 24-pin and 4-pin power connector. So be sure any PSU you buy supports that and is rated for an LGA1156 board. The other apparent good news is you can from all appearances use a double-slot video card so most anything out there is viable provided your new PSU has the connectors and the juice to support what you buy. I'd make sure a standard PSU will fit before plunking down cash on a video card. Do some measuring and all that. I also can't tell how much room, length-wise you have. All the newer cards are a bit long so measuring there to determine what will fit is also good. Performance-wise, higher up the food chain will certainly be better. Particularly if you want to run UM maxed at a Hami raid. And I don't know if there even is a card capable of that. Dunno if any have happened on Test but until OB, nobody can say regardless. From public info, 5770s were said to do quite well but whether they can do *that*, well,....??? Obviously your budget will dictate what you can get but I'd suggest investing as much for the future as you can afford assuming you plan to keep this system for awhile.
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Originally Posted by DeathSentry
So I have a 22' monitor which I run at 1920X1080; if I wanted to run each setting as Ultra (shader quality, occlusion, water, reflections, etc), and given the comments about shaders above, would I need a 5850?
System specs: HP e925T, 6 GB RAM, Windows 7 (64-bit), gfx card: ATI 4350; am assuming its an ATX box.. so if a 5850 were the only card I could use, would it fit? And, from a power supply perspective, can any brand fit in an HP or are there restrictions? Personally, if I can use a 57xx, it would be great due to the price difference (plus the fact that I have to buy a power supply), but I want something that won't be taxed even if I have ultrax maxed at a hami raid. |
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
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Really, long before a 5850 runs out of gas my guess is that the servers will and you'll be server-lagged with a spectacular-looking slideshow. Its always been server-lag that has caused most of the visible jerkiness in things like Hami raids and Zombie invasions for people with high-performance systems, not graphical client-side lag (although that is also a factor in low-performance systems).|
Originally Posted by Back_Blast
Particularly if you want to run UM maxed at a Hami raid. And I don't know if there even is a card capable of that.
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Although, UltraMode does create the potential for some interesting graphical gnashing with things like reflective costume pieces. Fifty players with shiny costumes standing around like a super-powered hall of mirrors shooting powers off left and right might make for some interesting graphical card load in theory.
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You may be right but I dunno. Perhaps a beta Hami raid needs to be organized to find out just how many licks it DOES take to get to the center of a 5850. But then it wouldn't exactly help DeathSentry until the NDA lifts... But it's a thought.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
So I have a AMD athlon x2 64 4400+ with 4 GB of ram and Windows 7 64bit with a nvidea 8800GT 512mb is this system going to be able to handle Ultra Mode? i have almost the sames specs in my laptop that I game with AMD turion64 x2 4 GB of ram Windows 7 64bit with a ATI x1270. Any ideas for me?
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Well based on public knowledge, the desktop should get UM at minimum settings I think. The laptop? No chance.
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Originally Posted by Laseracid
So I have a AMD athlon x2 64 4400+ with 4 GB of ram and Windows 7 64bit with a nvidea 8800GT 512mb is this system going to be able to handle Ultra Mode? i have almost the sames specs in my laptop that I game with AMD turion64 x2 4 GB of ram Windows 7 64bit with a ATI x1270. Any ideas for me?
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It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
The desktop should be able to handle UM settings at their minimum. The laptop is a lost cause. Very few notebooks come close to having a mobile GPU that could support UM. Basically the GPUs listed as Class 1 starting with the 9800M GTX/GTX 260M and up.
We know that UM has three basic aspects. Realistic shadows (hard and soft), reflective surfaces and even prettier water with reflections. You may be able to do one of these on a lesser GPU but not all three, even at their minimal settings (assuming each has multiple settings).
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Originally Posted by Back_Blast
Well based on public knowledge, the desktop should get UM at minimum settings I think. The laptop? No chance.
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Would a upgrade video card be good ive seen some in a good price range like the ATI HD 4550 maybe a 4600 be ok?
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No those would be worse than the 8800GT.
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Originally Posted by Laseracid
Would a upgrade video card be good ive seen some in a good price range like the ATI HD 4550 maybe a 4600 be ok?
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With my system specs is it mainly the video card holding me back? If so what would be a few cards that would be a good upgrade?
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It all depends on what you want, how much you want to spend and if you are an nVidia or ATI fanboy or you don't care. The game should be able to play at your current game settings but with all of the UM settings turned on but at their minimal settings.
Read what Posi says back at the very first post in this thread about recommended cards and their likely settings. The highest UM modes require some hefty hardware but you should be able to get mid range settings for $200.
The HD 5770 has about the same power requirements as an 8800 GT so no PSU upgrade should be necessary. But if you are looking at the nVidia GTS/GTX line or the ATI HD 58xx line of cards, it's likely you will have to swap out the PSU. This assumes you didn't do it when you added the 8800 GT or simply have an acceptably powerful one already.
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Ok I'll keep my eyes open for prices on the cards i have a 500w or a 550w cant remember 100% but im just happy i wont haft to ditch both my systems just to keep playing and that my desktop that is my main gaming PC can some-what handle it as is. I have always loved ATI over nvidea but with all the trouble in the past the 8800gt was to hard to pass up at 80 bucks not to long after it launched i got a good deal that has lasted for a long gaming run. Thanks so much for the help.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Dude, you got a Dell.
Your first problem is you can't use a card with a double wide bracket due to the motherboard being BTX. Doesn't look like there's a bracket slot to the left of the PCIe slot. The second problem is the CPU is located such that a double wide cooler on the GPU would interfere with the CPU heatsink. Most manufacturers assume that this isn't a problem. Before you think about the HD 5670 you should check out the HD 5750 cards. They are a little shorter than the HD 5770. This one may fit your case. It's about 1.6cm shorter and only the fan cage sticks out a bit. Of course this assumes the card pictured is the card they actually sell. You can take an up close look at the card here and get an idea how much the fan sticks out and where. Use the card's edge connector (the part of the card you stick into the PCIe slot) as a rough guide. And for your next question, yes the HD 5750 should be powerful enough to run UM, it's about 30% more powerful than the 9800 GT that Posi listed as minimum requirement for UM. |
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Originally Posted by Back_Blast
When you say it almost fit, did it not physically fit, period, or did it just make contact with the fan shroud while still inserting properly? If it just contacts the shroud but otherwise fits, you might actually be ok. If the contact is fairly trivial, allows the card to insert and doesn't much impact the airflow of the card or CPU, you're actually fine. If you still have the card, and it will plug in and all, get us a pic of that. I'd like to see it.
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Here's the two pics I took of the HD 5770 card before I packed it up
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67...r/CASEHIS2.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67...r/CASEHIS1.jpg
Yes its out of alignment, due to contacting the CPU fan... and I couldn't get a good shot of the pin placement on the motherboard, but you should get the idea of just how close it was to fitting.
The card is not, repeat not sitting in the socket, it is sitting on the motherboard.
If the CPU assembly was just a little smaller it would have fitted... oh well.
I'll get in touch with the Tech Support of AusPC Market and talk to them at the start of business tomorrow my time.
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I would much rather the Devs produice a video of what ultramode will look like inside and outside of Ultra Mode. The 2 second shot from heroCon didnt do jack for me and I am wrapping my head around what to do.
I amgetting 4k this week and am considering getting some new toys but just for ultra mode I think I'll be wasting my money so yea. Any idea when i17 goes open beta so I can tinker around with settings?
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Memory helps when a game has lots of large highly detailed, uncompressed textures. The more memory a card has, the more textures it can store on card which reduces the need to transfer the texture from main memory.
In the case of Ultra Mode with this game, more memory doesn't help, it's shader power that's needed. The only talk about improved textures is "marking" some as reflective.
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$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
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