Ultra-mode video card shopping guide
By
5th_Player,
Posted on: 2009-11-25 11:21 in Developers' Corner
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Posi listed the nVidia 9800GT as being able to run Ultra Mode at it's minimum settings.
So with the current crop of nVidia cards I would say 9800GT, GTS 250, GTX 260 and up. For ATI I would say the HD 48xx, HD 57xx and HD 58xx series are safe bets. My guess about Praetoria being optimized means full of glass buildings that will reflect your image as you pass and that there will be lots of reflecting pools.  |
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Are they just playing it safe in the 8800s since there were two versions of them?|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Posi listed the nVidia 9800GT as being able to run Ultra Mode at it's minimum settings.
So with the current crop of nVidia cards I would say 9800GT, GTS 250, GTX 260 and up. For ATI I would say the HD 48xx, HD 57xx and HD 58xx series are safe bets. My guess about Praetoria being optimized means full of glass buildings that will reflect your image as you pass and that there will be lots of reflecting pools. |
It was mentioned once in this thread, but I'll hit it again. Since the 9800 was nothing but a slightly up-clocked version of the G92 8800, shouldn't the 8800, as long as you have the G92 version, also run ultra mode?
Be well, people of CoH.
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Yea, the 512MB 8800 GTS is like the 9800 GTX which is a slightly slower 9800 GTX+/GTS 250. The 512MB 8800 GT is pretty identical to the 9800 GT. Also the original 8800 GTX and 8800 Ultra should be powerful enough for Ultra Mode at low to mid settings.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Are they just playing it safe in the 8800s since there were two versions of them?
It was mentioned once in this thread, but I'll hit it again. Since the 9800 was nothing but a slightly up-clocked version of the G92 8800, shouldn't the 8800, as long as you have the G92 version, also run ultra mode? |
But for people looking at new cards, you aren't going to find many 88xx series cards at retail anymore. That's why I only listed the 9xxx series and up.
Take the current Tom's Hardware Hierarchy Chart. Find tier with the 9800 GT near the top. That tier and everything above it should be powerful enough to run Ultra Mode at some setting.
And welcome back BillZ.
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Thanks, FX. Always nice coming home.
If you have a second, does this look acceptable to pull the trigger on? Or do you have better choices in mind? Uggh... guess I'll need to actually purchase Win7 with it as well. Pro OEM 1-pack should do the trick, yea?
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Not that I'm as good as a bunch of the people posting in this thread! But it looks good to me, based on the research I've been doing to rebuild one of the computers here. You'll need to go to 64-bit in order to take advantage of all that memory. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Thanks, FX. Always nice coming home.
If you have a second, does this look acceptable to pull the trigger on? Or do you have better choices in mind? Uggh... guess I'll need to actually purchase Win7 with it as well. Pro OEM 1-pack should do the trick, yea? |
And yes, the OEM should do fine. Next time I have to ... "upgrade"... I'll probably wind up getting a 10-license pack of the OEM version.
I have video card envy.
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My husband has the 5870, and he is lovin it. And very much looking forward to UltraMode, with it. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Thanks, FX. Always nice coming home.
If you have a second, does this look acceptable to pull the trigger on? Or do you have better choices in mind? Uggh... guess I'll need to actually purchase Win7 with it as well. Pro OEM 1-pack should do the trick, yea? |
Also take into account UltraMode is still 1 1/2 months off. Personally Im going to wait until late late March to make a buy since new models come out and the "old" stock goes on sale. Ill be disappointed if I cant score a 260 for under $200 or a 275 around $225.
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Useful advice, kudos to Posi for posting it.
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you probably won't be able to as Nvidia has end-of-lifed these chips. No more are being made. When the supplies dry up, that's it. Because of the scarce supply, prices are not going to go down as the last of these cards move through retail channels. |
Originally Posted by NetMinder
Also take into account UltraMode is still 1 1/2 months off. Personally Im going to wait until late late March to make a buy since new models come out and the "old" stock goes on sale. Ill be disappointed if I cant score a 260 for under $200 or a 275 around $225.
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This has been addressed multiple times in the thread.
If you are looking to buy the brand-name Nvidia there additional problem that Nvidia will not be offering any mid-range cards in the market that the 260 and 275 occupy. Currently the only mega chips on order from TSMC are for the high end GF100 / Fermi card.
Nvidia's only other market entries right now based on chip orders are for the GTS 250 and the "new" GT 2xx, GT 3xx, and GTS 240 cards.
There will not be a Fermi-Mid-range until August at the earliest... and probably no low-end cards until late 2010, if not 2011.
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Or, as another option, you might be able to score gtx285's on the cheap when fermi actually IS launched from people buying the new tech and using their pre-existing high end as cash to help pay for it. XFX even warintees the first re-sale. But the person would have had to register it in the first place and lots of people dislike doing that for some reason.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
If you are looking to buy the brand-name Nvidia there additional problem that Nvidia will not be offering any mid-range cards in the market that the 260 and 275 occupy. Currently the only mega chips on order from TSMC are for the high end GF100 / Fermi card.
Nvidia's only other market entries right now based on chip orders are for the GTS 250 and the "new" GT 2xx, GT 3xx, and GTS 240 cards. There will not be a Fermi-Mid-range until August at the earliest... and probably no low-end cards until late 2010, if not 2011. |
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I doubt that'll happen. Right now the HD 5850 is as fast or slightly faster than the GTX 285 and it's for $80 less. If the price hasn't come down in the three months or so the HD 5850 have been available, it says to me that the manufacturers simply don't want to lower the price.
Right now at NewEgg there are only four GTX 285s in stock at NewEgg with six out of stock, with only one with a restock date.
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Maybe someone here can help me... my search-fu is weak... I'm trying to find out the difference between the XFX HD 5850, XFX HD 5850 XXX, and the XFX HD 5850 Black Edition, besides price, and what that will mean in performance. Is one as good as the other?
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While I'm bringing up the info I'm going to guess slight differences in clock speed and maybe accessories.
Yep, that's it.
Stock has a clock speed of 725MHz with 4GHz memory.
XXX is 755MHz with 4.5GHz memory. +$40 over stock (list price)
Black is 765MHz with 4.5GHz memory. +$20 over XXX (list price)
How much better? No idea. Google for XFX XXX or Black reviews, they may compare it to a stock speed version.
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I'm plotting out an upgrade myself and came across this little beasty and wondered what folks thought of it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130527
It's a GTX 275 with a GTS 250 added on as a dedicated PhysX processor. Which leaves the 275 free to just do all the render work and such while the 250 computes the PhysX components.
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Ok - Currently I have a GTS 250 1GB / Intel Quad 2.4ghz / 4GB Ram / Win7 32bit
I'm thinking of buying an ATI 5870 following Posi's post, but will the rest of my rig be able to keep up?
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Whats your power supply? |
Originally Posted by Orion_Star_EU
Ok - Currently I have a GTS 250 1GB / Intel Quad 2.4ghz / 4GB Ram / Win7 32bit
I'm thinking of buying an ATI 5870 following Posi's post, but will the rest of my rig be able to keep up? |
Are you able to upgrade to 64 bit? Win 7?
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The 5870's power draw is actually better than the 8800 / 9800 series. Remember, one of Nvidia's huge design problems across the Nv4x, G7x, G8x, G9x, GTxx, and asThermaltake confirms, Fermi chips as well, is the massive power draw and heat-output. These really aren't problems in high-end cases where the average user will have spent some money on cooling the case, but it's always why Nvidia laptops earned a reputation for exploding, and why Nvidia's stock kept taking a beating as class-action lawsuits were being discussed against the company. |
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Whats your power supply?
Are you able to upgrade to 64 bit? Win 7? |
AMD, however, had their GPU engineers working like their CPU engineers. They worked on increasing performance without increasing the thermal output or the wattage input. The 5870 shares the same thermal and power profiles as the 4870, while being dramatically faster in performance. The 5770 shares the same thermal and power profiles as the 4770, but keeps up with the 4870.
So if his power supply can handle a GTS 250, he'll easily be able to run a 5870.
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Now, as to whether or not the rest of the system can keep up?
Well, that depends on what is being played. Many games these days are hitting a processor limit long before they hit a graphical limit... as AMD demonstrated with Eyefinity... and as HardOCP demonstrated with the (last) of the high-end AMD Socket AM2+ processors: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/...on_processor/5
Socket AM3 put AMD back in the game... : http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/...ble_ddr3_am3/6
That being said, the Core2 and Socket AM2+ Phenoms are still pretty powerful processors. However, if he bought this computer new with Windows 7, he's probably got an I5 or an I7... and yes, that will still Keep up.
So, I'm sure this will prompt ridicule and pity from some people, but my tired old computer (like so, but with 1.2 GB RAM) only has an AGP slot for the video card. Any chance there's a card out there I can buy that would support Ultra Mode? What exactly are the specifications I should be looking for?
Aside from the apparent lack of a 'Shader Clock", this Radeon card seems to compare favorably (unless ive miseed something) with this nvidia_geforce_9800, would it suffice?
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no.|
Originally Posted by Heartbreaker
So, I'm sure this will prompt ridicule and pity from some people, but my tired old computer only has an AGP slot for the video card. Any chance there's a card out there I can buy that would support Ultra Mode? What exactly are the specifications I should be looking for?
Aside from the apparent lack of a 'Shader Clock", this Radeon card seems to compare favorably (unless ive miseed something) with this nvidia_geforce_9800, would it suffice? |
The 4670 competes against the Geforce 8600 / 9600 / GT 2x0 series of add-in cards.
Right now, none of the AGP cards listed by Newegg are capable of running Ultra-Mode. The 4670 and the HD 3850 are the most powerful cards they are selling: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102730
PriceWatch's 1gb range of APG cards only list the 4650: http://www.pricewatch.com/gallery/video_cards/agp_1gb
And their list of 512 cards isn't that great either: http://www.pricewatch.com/browse/video_cards/agp_512mb
If this link works, the most powerful cards to be found on TigerDirect are also 4650's.
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Unfortunately, you'll find a distinct lack of modern AGP cards when you go to manufacturer sites as well.
Powercolor's most powerful is the 4670: http://www.powercolor.com/eng/produc...asp?SeriesID=2
Asus's most powerful is the 4650: http://usa.asus.com/ProductGroup2.as...EWBZcGQvxHvrb4
Sapphire only does the 4650 and 3850: http://www.sapphiretech.com/presenta...gid=4&sgid=571 :: http://www.sapphiretech.com/presenta...gid=4&sgid=336
XFX's most powerful AGP card is the 4650: http://www.xfxforce.com/en-gb/produc...ries/4650.aspx
EVGA and BFG, two of the well known Nvidia-only vendors don't have any AGP cards at all.
So, I think you can see the pattern here.
If you want ultra mode, you are looking at an entirely new computer, not just a new graphics card.
i apologize if this qustion has already been asked. but, i read a bunch and didn't see my card mentioned. i bought an evga nvidia gt 240 superclocked graphics card (512-P3-1242-LR). i have not overlclocked anything on card myself through evga's precision software. all the stuff ive seen online compares it to 9600 GT's and 9800 GT's performance depending on whos reviews you look at (closer to 9600 gt's on average). currently i can run quality setting with it until in very populated area with lots of effects going off. in heavy action tf's and stuff i have to drop graphics down a notch to not get video lagness (chop/jerkiness and such). might this card work for ultra or not?
my other parts are -
Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 3.0 GHz (89W)
3GB DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-6400)
300W PS
windows Home Prem 32bit
any and all input will be appreciated. XD tyvm.
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I'm getting a new PSU too to cater for the card. A friend's sorting it out for me. I can get 64bit yeah (MSDN <3) - will it make much of a difference?|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Whats your power supply?
Are you able to upgrade to 64 bit? Win 7? |
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Originally Posted by je_saist
That being said, the Core2 and Socket AM2+ Phenoms are still pretty powerful processors. However, if he bought this computer new with Windows 7, he's probably got an I5 or an I7... and yes, that will still Keep up.
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Probably Not. The 9800 GTX is pretty much the starting point on the Nvidia side. The reason why the GT 240 strikes between the 9600 GT and the 9800 GT is due to Nvidia's marketing. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Dreammy
i apologize if this qustion has already been asked. but, i read a bunch and didn't see my card mentioned. i bought an evga nvidia gt 240 superclocked graphics card (512-P3-1242-LR). i have not overlclocked anything on card myself through evga's precision software. all the stuff ive seen online compares it to 9600 GT's and 9800 GT's performance depending on whos reviews you look at (closer to 9600 gt's on average). currently i can run quality setting with it until in very populated area with lots of effects going off. in heavy action tf's and stuff i have to drop graphics down a notch to not get video lagness (chop/jerkiness and such). might this card work for ultra or not?
my other parts are - Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 3.0 GHz (89W) 3GB DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-6400) 300W PS windows Home Prem 32bit any and all input will be appreciated. XD tyvm. |
Nvidia used the GT moniker on the 9600 card to indicate the highest performing 9600.
Nvidia uesd the GT moniker on the 9800 to indicate the lowest performing 9800.
The GT 240 basically has the texture performance of the 9600 GT, and the shader performance of the 9800 GT.
Right now, the Evga 240 cards are running around $100-$110 on newegg.
In that price range you could have gotten a RadeonHD 5670 that will probably run Ultra-Mode (remember, the devs described the initial 5x00 performance testing as "excellent"), or with a bit more ($140) a 5750 that will run Ultra-Mode.
You could have also gotten a RadeonHD 4850, the starting point on the ATi side according to Ghost Falcon.
If for some reason you wanted to get ripped off and buy the Nvidia brand name, you could pick up a GTS 250 512 meg for around the same cost as a GT 240...
Although you'd still be over-paying for price / performance on a GTS 250 1gig.
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Microsoft stopped shipping PAE enabled kernels with NT6 non-server editions. If you want over 3gigs of RAM, you'll need a 64bit version of Windows.|
Originally Posted by Orion_Star_EU
I'm getting a new PSU too to cater for the card. A friend's sorting it out for me. I can get 64bit yeah (MSDN <3) - will it make much of a difference?
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| This is mainly for Ultra Mode. I didn't buy it Win7 (It's 3-4 years old now). |
Windows 7 hasn't been out for 3 or 4 years. It was officially launched last year.
I suspect, however, that you meant to type:
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| This is mainly for Ultra Mode. I did not buy it FOR Win7 (It's 3-4 years old now) |
Posi listed the nVidia 9800GT as being able to run Ultra Mode at it's minimum settings.
So with the current crop of nVidia cards I would say 9800GT, GTS 250, GTX 260 and up.
For ATI I would say the HD 48xx, HD 57xx and HD 58xx series are safe bets.
My guess about Praetoria being optimized means full of glass buildings that will reflect your image as you pass and that there will be lots of reflecting pools.
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$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
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