EBs/AVs status and debuff resists.

Does anyone have any numerical info about the status and debuff resistances for EBs and AVs (holds specifically)? I know it differes from AV to AV but something like a range of resistance would be really nice. I'm trying to plan some builds with specific goals in mind like holding AVs or debuffing them and the like. It would help me a lot if I had a general view at what I will be facing in-game while working on my builds...Specifically, I"m currently working on an Earth/Rad troller. My build includes boatloads of recharge which results in perma stuff like Hasten, AM, Lingering Radation, Earth Embrace and so on... But I'm really wondering if it will actually work for I'm intending it to, because I intend to pour a LOT of resources into that toon (3 purple sets to begin with). And that information is really nice to have on hand in the first place because it will also give me something to aim for in specific debuff numbers instead of just going for the highest possible amounts of it possible sacrificing something else in return which would could allow me to have a better overall build. So yeah, any info appreciated.

The AV debuff resistance is described on this page. Don't forget that the purple patch also applies. Also, info on AV mez protection (aka purple triangles).

Obviously, the purple triangles are retained by EBs downgraded from AVs. I've heard it said that downgraded AVs also retain the debuff resistance, but I haven't found anything definitive on the matter. AVs have inherent mag 3 protection, and EBs mag 6, to stack on top of the triangles.

EDIT: If you're thinking about holding an AV, I'm not sure if earth is the right set. The problem with earth is that it's single target hold has a much longer animation than some, making it hard to cycle it fast enough. With all your recharge, volcanic gasses would be near perma, and that might be able to make up some of the difference, but I don't know if it would be enough.

On the other hand, if you *can* cycle it fast enough, having stoney to absorb the hits while you go about stacking *would* be nice....

EDIT EDIT: With 180% global and 95 rech/hold in fossilize, I'm getting that you'd be able to stack it 10 times before the first one starts wearing off, for only mag 30 of hold. From some very dirty back of the envelope calculations, I think volcanic gasses might be able to stack about another mag 12 on average. As far as I can tell, overpower would add about another 1-2 mag on average. Slotted with 3 dam/mez, stoney might keep another mag 2-3 stacked on average, assuming he uses seismic smash every time it's up. That's only about mag 46 - you need 54 (that is all on an even level AV, too - it would be worse on a higher level one since the hold durations are hit by the purple patch).

I ran it for a few other primaries, and all in all, I'm not sure you'd be able to pull it off - I never got above mag 50 average stacked hold. I'm not sure how to factor in the overall contribution of hold procs, but I don't think they'd be enough. You might have better luck vs AVs specifically with the cold secondary - you'll want to confirm this, but I believe benumb can debuff the AVs mez resistance, making him much easier to hold. I would ask around on the controller forums if I were you - see if anyone has managed to perma-hold an AV, and if so, what their build looked like.

Wow. Thanks a ton Muon. Plenty of great information in your post and in the links you gave me. So much appreciated. I will take your advice and post about it on the controller forums. Once again, thanks a lot!

EDIT: I also have the single target attack from the Earth Mastery Epic. That's a mag hold 4 approximately ever 7 seconds or so. Just thought I'd say that because you've actually went through all that trouble

Good doms don't have much problem holding AVs

I dont have any info but the methodology is:

Using the temp power analyzer, or surveilance would let you examine a debuff on an AV, note its magnitude and then exit, change settings come back and check it versus the same foe at EB level.

Hm, I forgot about seismic smash from the epic. Let's see what that would do...

Well, assuming 95% hold enhancement and 95% recharge (and that you've got roughly 180% global counting hasten), seismic smash has a 29.06s hold and a 9.18s cycle time. It'd be able to keep up about 3 stacks, for an extra 12 mag.

...yow. Overall, that'd be about mag 57-58 stacked. It might actually be possible after all. Of course, that's assuming that everything is cast the instant it recharges, every time, but.... Add in a few hold procs (if you can without compromising hold/recharge enhancement) and you probably can actually perma-hold an AV with that. Assuming you can keep up the endurance, of course...

I'm not sure how to calculate benumb's effect, or even how strong it'd be for a controller. I *think* it'd be -93.15% at level 50, but somehow I have a hard time believing that it'd really reduce an AVs mag 50 protection to mag 3.5 as a 93% reduction would seem to imply. Do AVs resist -special? Is there a -special debuff floor? Has anyone tested to see if benumb actually reduces an AVs hold protection, and if so, by how much?

AHHH.... That makes a lot more sense.

Ok, now I have to ask, though - what *really* is the -mez resistance floor? Because -93% mez resistance would make holds last something like 14 times longer (1/(1-0.93) = 1/.07 = 14.3ish?), and I have a hard time thinking they'd really allow it to be *that* powerful.

This wiki page says that the cap is -300%, but that seems ... highly unlikely. As the article notes, mez durations would be infinite at -100%, and negative at higher values. Since all it would take to reach more than -100% is to have two corrs/defs/controllers/MMs use benumb or weaken on the same target, I have a feeling it would have been noticed by now. So does anyone know what the -mez resistance cap really is?

EDIT: With the very long durations of the single target confuse powers, I wonder if it would be easier to perma-confuse AVs than it would be to perma-hold them. Let's see...

With 95% rech/confuse enhancement and 180% global recharge, confuse/decieve last 72.64 seconds and cycle in 4.77s (if my memory is correct on 2.5 seconds being their recently corrected animation time), leading to being able to stack 15 of them for mag 45. Overpower would add, on average, about another mag 2. The contagious confusion proc would only add another mag 2 on average. Darn, not quite. Their long animations are hurting them here.

Well, in that case, it sounds like it's time to do some testing FOR SCIENCE! Anyone with weaken/benumb willing to buy a power analyzer temp power, go out and benumb/weaken AVs/downgraded AVs and record the results? I would, except I have no such characters.

I have a Fire/Cold Corruptor I can use. Though the "limited" access to AVs would hurt this. Any advice on where I can have "easy" access to AVs?

Aaaah. Thanks! Completely forgot about the AE, lol.

Yeah. Make sure it's at even level, and let us know your level as well so we know for sure how strong the effect is *supposed* to be. While you're at it, maybe hit the AV with some sort of other debuff (infrigidate?) and then come back when he's an EB and hit him with it again so we can also test the 'downgraded AVs do/do not retain debuff resistance bit'.

Just remember that some AVs have extra status protections on top of the Purple Triangles (cough cough states)

Sorry, my entire day yesterday was spent on SG teams. Didn't really have the time for AE. I'll do it today after work.