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That is up to you. Two authors so far have shown theirs.
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Originally Posted by Equation
At this point, I think we should just agree to disagree on that one.
 I do however take your points into consideration, and might I add retconning Godwin's law.. PRICELESS!-Eq btw, are we showing off our arcs that we submit, or waiting until final judgement? |
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I was editing my post so much that your comment about retconning Godwin's law makes no sense anymore. Sorry about that.|
Originally Posted by Equation
At this point, I think we should just agree to disagree on that one.
I do however take your points into consideration, and might I add retconning Godwin's law.. PRICELESS!-Eq btw, are we showing off our arcs that we submit, or waiting until final judgement? |
The arcs will have to be published to be entered into the competition so they will be out there for people to see before the contest is over (unless you wait to the last moment to publish I suppose).
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
I think unless you go out of your way to advertise your arc, there's a pretty good probability that it will reach the entry date having never been played if you want to go that route.
Why is time travel a cop out?
Because time travel is always a cop out. It never makes sense and causes more coherency issues than it solves.
So the ITF, Ouroborus, and alternate realities, which deal with a split in timelines from altering the past are also out?
Ideally, yes, but the devs love time travel so we're stuck with it.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Time travel doesn't HAVE to be a cop out. Used cautiously and creatively it can be an excellent story-telling device. The problem is that it's so easy to use as a shortcut, that most can't resist. That's why crappy stories about someone going back to kill Hitler as a baby usually outnumber the good stories 20:1.
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Originally Posted by Venture
Why is time travel a cop out?
Because time travel is always a cop out. It never makes sense and causes more coherency issues than it solves. |
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I have been reading science-fiction and fantasy almost as long as I've been alive (I'm 46) and I have never seen a time travel story that was not either a) hackneyed, b) riddled with logical flaws, c) an excessive exercise in Gumping or other forms of historical abuse, or more commonly d) all of the above.| Time travel doesn't HAVE to be a cop out. Used cautiously and creatively it can be an excellent story-telling device. |
"The City on the Edge of Forever" almost makes it. This means unless you can outdo Harlan Ellison and/or D. C. Fontana (who was largely responsible for the episode people actually saw), we don't need you.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
Sounds like a new challenge has been set forth, people! After you're done Dr. Aeon's challenge, its time to set out and make a time travel story so amazing that Venture will play it.
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Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. Venture reviewed my time travel story Death to Disco! and had not a single bad thing to say about the time travel aspect or really about anything in the arc other than it being "short and underwritten" because it is a two mission arc (remember "5 missions is a short story"). The "review" was just a blow by blow of the arc and the rating was "it ain't half good and it ain't half bad" 3 stars. |
Originally Posted by Darkfang
Sounds like a new challenge has been set forth, people! After you're done Dr. Aeon's challenge, its time to set out and make a time travel story so amazing that Venture will play it.
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Someone, others, not me of course, might say this rating was because it was a time-travel story. No Sir, not me.
WN
Check out one of my most recent arcs:
457506 - A Very Special Episode - An abandoned TV, a missing kid's TV show host and more
416951 - The Ms. Manners Task Force - More wacky villains, Wannabes. things in poor taste
or one of my other arcs including two 2010 Player's Choice Winners and an2009 Official AE Awards Nominee for Best Original Story
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And we would bother doing this because...?
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Originally Posted by Darkfang
Sounds like a new challenge has been set forth, people! After you're done Dr. Aeon's challenge, its time to set out and make a time travel story so amazing that Venture will play it.
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Jail.Bird
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I would argue that 99% of all science fiction and fantasy that's out there is - to some extant - hackneyed or riddled with logical flaws. That doesn't mean it is without merit or cannot be entertaining. Sci-Fi and fantasy depend on a certain amount of suspension of disbelief in order to work in the first place. There's no such thing as magic or fire-breathing dragons or fiery space explosions or transforming alien robots but we just accept these things because it's part of the fun of the story.|
Originally Posted by Venture
I have been reading science-fiction and fantasy almost as long as I've been alive (I'm 46) and I have never seen a time travel story that was not either a) hackneyed, b) riddled with logical flaws, c) an excessive exercise in Gumping or other forms of historical abuse, or more commonly d) all of the above.
"The City on the Edge of Forever" almost makes it. This means unless you can outdo Harlan Ellison and/or D. C. Fontana (who was largely responsible for the episode people actually saw), we don't need you. |
If we are going to judge sci-fi based on adherance to logic and lack of hack writing, let's just toss Star Wars into the dumpster right now.
There are bad time travel stories - no doubt - but there isn't anything inherant about the notion of time travel that precludes a good story being written. There are tons of time travel books and movies I can think of off the top of my head which I enjoyed immensely. Did they have a few leaps of logic? Of course they did. Did they take historic liberties? Sure, sometimes. Did this make them bad stories? Not in the least.
Also, if you are going to set Harlan Ellison as the standard by which our writing needs to live up to, then you, me and everyone else here should stop writing immediately. The very best of our work here pales in comparison to absent-minded napkin scribbling of any number of professional writers. That's why they are full-time authors and we are playing superhero games on the Interwebs.
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99% of science fiction and fantasy out there sucks.|
Originally Posted by Supafunkadunka
I would argue that 99% of all science fiction and fantasy that's out there is - to some extant - hackneyed or riddled with logical flaws. That doesn't mean it is without merit or cannot be entertaining. Sci-Fi and fantasy depend on a certain amount of suspension of disbelief in order to work in the first place. There's no such thing as magic or fire-breathing dragons or fiery space explosions or transforming alien robots but we just accept these things because it's part of the fun of the story.
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| There are bad time travel stories - no doubt - but there isn't anything inherant about the notion of time travel that precludes a good story being written. There are tons of time travel books and movies I can think of off the top of my head which I enjoyed immensely. Did they have a few leaps of logic? Of course they did. Did they take historic liberties? Sure, sometimes. Did this make them bad stories? Not in the least. |
It is especially cheap in the context of an MMO, where status quo is god, to throw in some time travel rather than to write a good story set in the here and now of the game world with a definite conclusion that doesn't disrupt said status quo.
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| Also, if you are going to set Harlan Ellison as the standard by which our writing needs to live up to, then you, me and everyone else here should stop writing immediately. The very best of our work here pales in comparison to absent-minded napkin scribbling of any number of professional writers. That's why they are full-time authors and we are playing superhero games on the Interwebs. |
Eva Destruction AR/Fire/Munitions Blaster
Darkfire Avenger DM/SD/Body Scrapper
Arc ID#161629 Freaks, Geeks, and Men in Black
Arc ID#431270 Until the End of the World
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Full agreement there.|
Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
99% of science fiction and fantasy out there sucks.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
There are far more time travel stories that are bad.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
Once you introduce time travel, it becomes a cop-out for writers who can't come up with a better idea. The very concept encourages inconsistency, and makes for an easy "you can do anything you want because at the end of the episode everything will go back to normal." It's cheap, and it's meaningless.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
It is especially cheap in the context of an MMO, where status quo is god, to throw in some time travel rather than to write a good story set in the here and now of the game world with a definite conclusion that doesn't disrupt said status quo.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
If you want to aspire to mediocrity, that's your prerogative. Just because you're not as good a writer as some professionals, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to be.
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If that is your goal, that is an admirable one but, keep in mind that it is strictly YOUR goal. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I would wager that most people play this game for fun and, writing an MA arc that is trying to be the next great american novel is not going to fall into most people's definition of fun. Furthermore, if someone felt they had an idea that fell into this category they would be a fool to publish it here as opposed to spending the time to work it into something that they could attempt to make money from through a professional publisher. Looking for high end literary content in MA is like looking for a ticket to the clue bus at the train station, in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by Eva Destruction
If you want to aspire to mediocrity, that's your prerogative. Just because you're not as good a writer as some professionals, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to be.
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Jail.Bird
It will bring you infinite riches and the adoration of the opposite sex? Wait a minute, no it won't. I have no idea. I just know I'm playing Death to Disco when I get home tonight.
AAAAND my entry has been emailed. Spoilers - it IS the next great American novel, and I will not be making a cent off it, and I'm pretty okay with that (though in almost any other case, JailBird, I would be completely behind your sentiment.) And it has nothing to do with time travel, though if I could go back and do it all over again, it might.
Submitted mine, after much work (and actual testing; which I don't normally bother with). I think it's solid, although it might be a bit tricky solo if you lack Mez protection or are afraid of Vanguard.
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The only real problem I have conceptually with time travel is the genie-in-the-bottle phenomenon. Once you let it out in a universe, you can't put it back in. And once done, it lessens the immediacy and inherent risk of any scenario because any audience member can logically say, 'um... well, why don't they just get into that portal/machine/thing over there and solve the problem before it ever became a problem.'| There are far more time travel stories that are bad. Once you introduce time travel, it becomes a cop-out for writers who can't come up with a better idea. The very concept encourages inconsistency, and makes for an easy "you can do anything you want because at the end of the episode everything will go back to normal." It's cheap, and it's meaningless. |
I think the way that H.G. Wells handled the concept of time travel was very good. He used it as nothing more than a mechanical apparatus to speculate what the far future, (when society was absolutely nothing like it is now), might be like.
Changing the past inherently creates a causality loop that is difficult to explain away. Because if you eliminate the original event, you eliminate the driving compulsion that caused the individual to go back in time in the first place. Without that driving compulsion, the individual has no reason to go back in time. Therefore he never went back in time. Therefore he never changed the original event. So now the event is there again. So the individual has his compulsion again. So he goes back in time... etc.
On that level, there are really only two possibilities. There are an infinite number of time travelers creating an infinite number of loops based on an infinite number of possible events that could have driven them to create the means to travel back in time to change the past.
Or there are none.
Take your pick.
I think the Chronological wayfarers Bill S. Preston and Ted "Theodore" Logan handled causality loops quite sufficiently during their most bogus journey. So long as you have a reminder to go back and do something later, you will have gone back and done it, and it will be done. Just remind yourself after it is done that you need to go back and do it, and the Wyld Stallyns garbage can will be there to drop on the villain's head.
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They turned the casuality thing into an excellent joke. It was a satire of time travel use. As such, it was highly entertaining. I shudder to think what would happen when both sides use timetravel and use a system like that. It would be a most excellent mess I am sure.
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Originally Posted by Darkfang
I think the Chronological wayfarers Bill S. Preston and Ted "Theodore" Logan handled causality loops quite sufficiently during their most bogus journey. So long as you have a reminder to go back and do something later, you will have gone back and done it, and it will be done. Just remind yourself after it is done that you need to go back and do it, and the Wyld Stallyns garbage can will be there to drop on the villain's head.
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Is it so wrong that, and this has nothing to do with the architect at this point, I would love to see that play out as the climactic scene in a time travel action movie? Not that we're talking Oscar winning stuff here - or even sci-fi original movie quality stuff. I'd just like to see a protagonist/antagonist have an epic, strategy-based causality fight.
What can I say, sometimes I'm a sucker for stories where I can shut my brain off and just enjoy the pretty lights and sounds.
Hello Architects!
I just wanted to remind you all that the deadline of December 9th is approaching for the challenge! So if you're working on an arc, keep in mind that time is ticking!
Follow me on my blog or on twitter:
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No pressure, right? 
Playstation 3 - XBox 360 - Wii - PSP
Remember kids, crack is whack!
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My entry is almost finished! Test-ran it today, it just needs a couple quick tweaks and then it's done!
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
I have a few questions. Will you play the arc when it is submitted or wait until the deadline to play all? Once submitted to you, can an arc be changed based on feedback from other players?
Thanks.
@Gypsy Rose
In Pursuit of Liberty - 344916
The Vigilante - 395861
Suppression - 374481 - Winner of The American Legion's February 2011 AE Author Contest
At this point, I think we should just agree to disagree on that one.
I do however take your points into consideration, and might I add retconning Godwin's law.. PRICELESS!
-Eq
btw, are we showing off our arcs that we submit, or waiting until final judgement?
COMING SOON: A new Epic that will change the way you see Arachnos...
Brought to you by @Equation