Well, it's possible. Also with the nice resistance us fire fire tanks get having some defense is always nice. The problem you are going to face though is that Fire/Fire tanks aren't really known for their defense.
You are going to need Tough+Weave and get combat jumping and Acrobatics. Then get all of your primary powers. That's all the advice I can give you because, well I just don't have the kind of money to try and buy the IO's to do that.
I know it's possible, may not be very high, but you can do it and it probably won't be cheap...
Honestly I don't think you need to soft cap in defense with a fire tank because after you have the powers I mentioned in the Second paragraph, you are pretty unstoppable, especially with the damage we can do.
I know Shield/Fire tanks are much easier to soft cap.
Pinnacle - The Drunk Server!
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
MAIN: Desi Boy> Level 51 Fire/Fire Tank
Super Group: C.O.R.E.
Tanking since 05'
Vigilante
I sent him a PM about my experience with soft-capping a fire / fire tank.
The short version is that I wasted several billion influence in pursuit of something that didn't actually work. I spent so many slots on getting to soft cap with smash / lethal (and really close with melee), that I was down on recovery, recharge rate, accuracy, and regeneration values. And since many melee enemy attacks do a defense debuff, as soon as I initiated combat with the likes of Nemesis or Cimerorans, the defense's quickly dropped in the monitoring window...
In my own experience, I found my key in focusing on recharge, accuracy, and healing. I've got healing flames down to a 12~13second recharge with IO buffs, and I've got a 40% resist to slows with Temp Protection and Winters Gift. Having my heal come back up more quickly has been a lot more effective for my own play style.
Agreed. Soft-capping defense just isn't worth the sacrifice. Now, you could greatly increase your HP, and that would affectively increase your resistence. Grab a couple of accolades on top of HP bonuses, toss in some +recharge, and you should be pretty tough.
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Totally disagree with the last few responses. My Fire/EM is S/L softcapped and he's so much better than before (when I was building for +rech and offense), it's not even funny. Recovery's no problem even w/o Consume. My offensive output has gone down a bit (not a lot though), but then EM's been gutted anyway and my abilities as a "tank" has skyrocketed. It might not be for everyone, but I'd at least recommend the OP give it a shot, maybe on test (can "dupe" whatever IOs he needs, esp the Kin Combats), and see what it feels like.
BTW, I'm doing the same for my Fire/Fire scrapper (really, pretty much all my resist-based melee are being built towards softcapped defenses--DA w/softcapped S/L is a freakin' beast!), and he's also doing great w/almost no sacrifices to his offenses either.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Quote:
Agreed, defence is the way to go.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
Totally disagree with the last few responses. My Fire/EM is S/L softcapped and he's so much better than before (when I was building for +rech and offense), it's not even funny. Recovery's no problem even w/o Consume. My offensive output has gone down a bit (not a lot though), but then EM's been gutted anyway and my abilities as a "tank" has skyrocketed. It might not be for everyone, but I'd at least recommend the OP give it a shot, maybe on test (can "dupe" whatever IOs he needs, esp the Kin Combats), and see what it feels like.
BTW, I'm doing the same for my Fire/Fire scrapper (really, pretty much all my resist-based melee are being built towards softcapped defenses--DA w/softcapped S/L is a freakin' beast!), and he's also doing great w/almost no sacrifices to his offenses either. |
A decent amount of Defence backed up by high resistance and a quick recharging self heal will make a pretty resiliant tank.
I'd try to go for capped melee.
L50s: Tanks: Cryofission - Ice/EM - Dr Celsius - Fire/Ice - Saint George - SD/SS | Controllers: Psichosis - Ill/Kin - Major Chaos - Ill/Stm | Scrappers - Neutron Crusader - DM/SR
Currently Levelling: Angelic Blade - BS/WP Scrapper | Seeds of Destruction - Plant/Kin Controller
I have my fire/ice at around 41.5% S/L and it really helps with survival. It also has hitpoint boosts to around 2500. regen is at 340%.
YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
Unsure if this would be helpful to the conversation, however this is how I built my Fire/Fire Tank...and did not take any of the Mastery Powers:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Fiery Diamond: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Taunt-I:50(A), Sciroc-Dam%:50(3), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(5), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(11), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(13), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(39)
Level 1: Scorch -- Dmg-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(3), Dmg-I:50(5)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(7), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(11), Aegis-ResDam:50(15), S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(39)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Numna-Heal:50(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(7), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(9), Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(13), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15), Heal-I:50(39)
Level 6: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 10: Combustion -- Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(25), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Oblit-%Dam:50(42)
Level 12: Air Superiority -- KntkC'bat-Knock%:35(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(17), Zephyr-ResKB:50(19)
Level 16: Health -- HO:Golgi(A), HO:Golgi(17), HO:Golgi(19)
Level 18: Temperature Protection -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(21), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(27), Aegis-ResDam:50(37), S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(37)
Level 20: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt:50(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg:50(23), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(31), Zinger-Acc/Rchg:50(31), Zinger-Taunt/Rng:50(40)
Level 22: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(25), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(27)
Level 24: Consume -- Zinger-Taunt:50(A), EndMod-I:50(29), EndMod-I:50(31)
Level 26: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit:50(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:50(29), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), AdjTgt-Rchg:50(34), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 28: Plasma Shield -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(33), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), Aegis-ResDam:50(50), S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(50)
Level 30: Burn -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 32: Fiery Embrace -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(36), HO:Membr(36)
Level 35: Rise of the Phoenix -- RechRdx-I:50(A), Numna-Heal:50(36), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:50(37)
Level 38: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(42), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(43), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(43), Oblit-%Dam:50(43)
Level 41: Incinerate -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 44: Greater Fire Sword -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48)
Level 47: Fly -- Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng:50(A), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx:50(48), Winter-ResSlow:50(50)
Level 49: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 10.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 17.2% Defense(Fire)
- 17.2% Defense(Cold)
- 1.56% Defense(Energy)
- 1.56% Defense(Negative)
- 3.13% Defense(Ranged)
- 20.3% Defense(AoE)
- 50% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 6% Enhancement(Heal)
- 25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 6% FlySpeed
- 98.4 HP (5.25%) HitPoints
- 6% JumpHeight
- 6% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -16)
- Knockup (Mag -16)
- MezResist(Confused) 7.5%
- MezResist(Held) 10.8%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 11.9%
- MezResist(Sleep) 7.5%
- MezResist(Stun) 11.9%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 10.3%
- 1.5% (0.03 End/sec) Recovery
- 42% (3.29 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 20% ResEffect(FlySpeed)
- 20% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
- 20% ResEffect(RunSpeed)
- 5% Resistance(Cold)
- 1.26% Resistance(Energy)
- 4.39% Resistance(Negative)
- 21% RunSpeed
- 7.5% XPDebtProtection
Stormy Weathermaker - lvl 50 Illus/Storm
Egyptian Kitten - lvl 50 Fire/Fire Blaster
Fiery Weathermaker - lvl 50 Fire/Storm Corrupter
Fiery Diamond - lvl 50 Fire/Fire Tank
Fire Nightengale - lvl 50 Fire/Empath Controller
Have not done this on a FA....yet.
I softcapped melee on a DA however with tremendous results.
That is the route I would recommend over trying to cap any of the damage types.
Taking It On the Chin I-16 Tanker Guide
Repeat Offenders
Its possible, I'm working on a Fire/SS that runs around 35% Defense to Melee/S/L. However, instead of going all out, it gave me some room for a nice amount of recharge (70% global I believe) As well as some +HP.
Soft capped defense isn't the end all be all on a character with no DDR, but it adds significant survivability to your fire tank. Yes cascade failures can and will occur... luckily you have the ability to move around as well as being able to fall back on your resists, heal, and possibly burn.
Quote:
Unless you are fighting Freaks, most attacks will have a S/L component to the attack. And with Freaks, the ranged and AoE attacks are energy. Fire damage is more prevalent than cold.|
Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
Have not done this on a FA....yet.
I softcapped melee on a DA however with tremendous results. That is the route I would recommend over trying to cap any of the damage types. |
All other tanks can draw foes into melee and keep them. Fire, when using Burn, has to deal with ranged damage as well.
If a fire tank uses Burn, foes flee and attack at range before returning to melee.
A fire tank, in my opinion and practice, does better with high S/L because foes will also flee to fight at range.
YMMV---IMOIce Ember
I to would say to go with defense on a tank, and in all honesty, i'm only familiar with melee defense, as mine is capped at about 36%, I haven't tried doing the s/l defense, as it took long enough to get my toon where it is now. I could have went higher, but I would have begun to gimp my attacks more, so I stopped there and my fire tank is VERY well rounded.
One thing I remember from playing this game so long is someone mentioning a sort of "trinity", encompassing the most important aspects of any melee oriented toon.
Resistance, defense, and heal/regen. Being obscenely strong in any one is good, but by being good in all three, your more likely to survive, and luckily, fire tanks have a good heal and once you get tough, you have good resistance, so boosting your defense will greatly boost your toon, in my opinion, rounding him out.
But hey, to each his own. Play style has a lot to do with it too. I just prefer to be able to more versatile. Not every toon has a -def component, and if they do, I still have my resistance and heal to fall back on.
Quote:
I have actually been messing around with the math on this idea lately since my new project is a Fire/Fire/Pyre Tanker|
Originally Posted by Demondante
One thing I remember from playing this game so long is someone mentioning a sort of "trinity", encompassing the most important aspects of any melee oriented toon.
Resistance, defense, and heal/regen. Being obscenely strong in any one is good, but by being good in all three, your more likely to survive, and luckily, fire tanks have a good heal and once you get tough, you have good resistance, so boosting your defense will greatly boost your toon, in my opinion, rounding him out. |
If you assume baseline Hit-Miss with no resist or bonus defense at 50%, this means that it would take incoming damage of 200% your HP (approx) to drop you. Lets call that a 2:1 survival ratio.
So Isolating Resist and Defense seperately you get something like this;
15% Resist OR 7.5% Defense = 2.35
30% Resist OR 15% Defense = 2.85
45% Resist OR 22.5% Defense = 3.63
60% Resist OR 30% Defense = 5.00
75% Resist OR 37.5% Defense = 8.00
90% Resist OR 45% Defense = 20.00
It starts off slowly but progresses very rapidly as you approach 25% Defense and 50% Resistance.
So now what happens when you stack these.
15% Resist PLUS 7.5% Defense = 2.78
30% Resist PLUS 15% Defense = 4.08
45% Resist PLUS 22.5% Defense = 6.62
60% Resist PLUS 30% Defense = 12.50
75% Resist PLUS 37.5% Defense = 32.25
90% Resist PLUS 45% Defense = 200.00
As you can see the amount of Punishment that you can take surpasses the 10:1 ratio somewhere between 45-60% Resist and 22.5-30% Defense.
You may respond to this, "well very few people can get resists as high as the numbers on the left", but if you consider more HPS as a supplement to resistance, then 60% Resistance could be 45% Resistance combined with 15% more HPS. This would open up the 60% number to alot more ATs/Powersets.
Interesting things start to present themselves.
Because of this I am trying to find the thread where someone stated how much they like the 30% defense number, cause they really knew what they were talking about.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Quote:
36%? That's not actually "capped," that's just where you stopped.
|
Originally Posted by Demondante
I to would say to go with defense on a tank, and in all honesty, i'm only familiar with melee defense, as mine is capped at about 36%, I haven't tried doing the s/l defense, as it took long enough to get my toon where it is now. I could have went higher, but I would have begun to gimp my attacks more, so I stopped there and my fire tank is VERY well rounded.
|
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Sorry bout that, didn't mean to say "capped", just meant thats where I decided to stop.
No harm, I just don't want to confuse the young 'uns. 
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Is it possible?
that's really what I what to know lol
I was running over possible builds, but this is my first fire/fire so I thought I would ask.