http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=140062
DB/WP can.
"They've got us surrounded again, the poor bastards." - General Creighton W. Abrams
Consider Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals -> Power Slice. You don't need a cone for an AV, Power Slice has better DPS and DPE than One Thousand Cuts, and it's shorter, so takes less time away from even better attacks.
You could do better DPS by picking up a lot of recharge to run Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals, but I wouldn't. Willpower just doesn't benefit from recharge, and you need to focus all of your attention on defense.
There are higher DPS chains still, but they require extreme recharge, and you're just not going to want to go there with Willpower.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Thanks werner - if it works with first chain I'm good |
Originally Posted by Werner
Consider Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals -> Power Slice. You don't need a cone for an AV, Power Slice has better DPS and DPE than One Thousand Cuts, and it's shorter, so takes less time away from even better attacks.
You could do better DPS by picking up a lot of recharge to run Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals, but I wouldn't. Willpower just doesn't benefit from recharge, and you need to focus all of your attention on defense. There are higher DPS chains still, but they require extreme recharge, and you're just not going to want to go there with Willpower. |
edit: actually if anyone's got slotting advices on what sets might be nice to have let me know too
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I sort of agree and disagree.| You could do better DPS by picking up a lot of recharge to run Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals, but I wouldn't. Willpower just doesn't benefit from recharge, and you need to focus all of your attention on defense. |
Running BF->AV, the only recharge my DB/WP had was LotGs and purple sets in BF and SS. The purple procs are great for DPS, and with defense sets you're not likely to get any positional defense anyway. I mean I could have about 3% more S/L defense and E/N defense (with a kinetic combat in BF and an eradication in SS) at the cost of ~15 or ~20 DPS. Looking at my own build, it doesn't seem worth it to me. The lower kill speed would probably cancel out the mitigation boost.
Now, maybe there's other DB/WP builds in which it would make perfect sense, builds that would be closer to the softcap for example.
for the attack chain that shred monkey used, is that still the highest dps or what? i think it is blinding feint/ablating strikes/sweeping strikes/ablating strikes? not very familiar with dual blades.
I think BF->SS->AS is a bit more, since the Fury of Gladiator proc. I can't remember (and don't feel like checking) what number of recharge either of these chains require, though.
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Yeah, I was doing a little guesswork, and I could be wrong. I figured that for an AV build, you'd be trying to soft cap willpower. I figured that would take all of your resources. But maybe it wouldn't, and you could find a few spare slots for Luck of the Gamblers, and purple sets ARE nice for attacks. Put a purple set in Blinding Feint, pick up a few more recharge set bonuses, and you'd be there. Plus then you save yourself an attack, freeing up a power and slots to help you soft cap. I think I somehow got in my brain that the OP WANTED a lot of attacks, but I see no evidence for that, so I may have been conflating two different threads, or might just be insane.|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I sort of agree and disagree.
Running BF->AV, the only recharge my DB/WP had was LotGs and purple sets in BF and SS. The purple procs are great for DPS, and with defense sets you're not likely to get any positional defense anyway. I mean I could have about 3% more S/L defense and E/N defense (with a kinetic combat in BF and an eradication in SS) at the cost of ~15 or ~20 DPS. Looking at my own build, it doesn't seem worth it to me. The lower kill speed would probably cancel out the mitigation boost. Now, maybe there's other DB/WP builds in which it would make perfect sense, builds that would be closer to the softcap for example. |
So on further review, it's definitely worth considering going for the Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals chain, and I probably WOULD go for that one on a Willpower, assuming I could fit everything I wanted in.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Blinding Feint -> Ablating Strike -> Sweeping Strike -> Ablating Strike is still the highest DPS. Even with Fury of the Gladiator, Blinding Feint -> Sweeping Strike -> Ablating Strike loses out on DPS. What it gets in exchange is a little more AoE and a little better top end when recharge buffed. Here's how the total DPS breaks down on my sample builds depending on number of targets you can fit in the cone:|
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I think BF->SS->AS is a bit more, since the Fury of Gladiator proc. I can't remember (and don't feel like checking) what number of recharge either of these chains require, though.
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Code:
Targets BF>AS>SS>AS BF>SS>AS 1 238 223 2 315 325 3 393 426 4 470 528 5 548 630
Code:
Targets BF>AS>SS>AS BF>SS>AS 1 250 244 2 331 356 3 412 468 4 494 579 5 575 691
As for required recharge, that depends on what you mean. Normally, we mean "to get the chain gapless", in which case they require +314% recharge and +355% recharge respectively, both of which you're just not going to achieve solo. But in this case, I think it is more appropriate for it to mean "to get the optimal stacking of the procs and Blinding Feint". In that case, you're looking at +273% on Ablating Strike for the first chain, and +265% on Blinding Feint for the second chain. However, at those levels of recharge, the second chain is losing even more single-target DPS compared to the first, and I'd just go with the first. Both at +273% recharge:
Code:
Targets BF>AS>SS>AS BF>SS>AS 1 235 214 2 312 312 3 389 410 - needs three targets to pull ahead 4 465 508 5 542 605
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Wow ty for the info Werner - atm I'm looking into 2 things : I got a build with BF+AVcombo+power slice, which leaves me enough space for stuff like tough, weave, maneuvers etc
And I' mtrying to fit weave etc in a build with BF+AV+Sweep - this way I can aoe mobs still but only use the BF+AV+PS chain on AV's or maybe even ur optimised one. But I doubt I can survive AVs with it
I stand corrected then, although I didn't remember the BF -> SS -> AS being that bad compared to the other one (and it was before the glad proc was introduced). Good example of why perceptions are bad and math is good.
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I think I remember arguing that BF -> SS -> AS was better, even before the Gladiator Proc, so it might well be me that gave you the (possibly) incorrect impression about how close they were on DPS. I suspect I was earlier using some theoretical numbers or something. Even then, I think it was lagging a little on single target. Now I'm calculating based on my */Super Reflexes DPS template build. I think using an actual near-top-end DPS build with the recharge to run these chains probably gives a little better picture, but the actual numbers I'm getting may well also be an artifact of exactly how I built my template, and the template is also a couple issues old now. So take everything with a grain of salt.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
I stand corrected then, although I didn't remember the BF -> SS -> AS being that bad compared to the other one (and it was before the glad proc was introduced). Good example of why perceptions are bad and math is good.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I actually used these chains for a few days about six or nine months ago and that's from where I thought BF -> SS -> AS was as good (and from there I assumed BF -> AS -> SS -> AS would be better) as I got roughly the same times on pylon and AV soloing ; it's entirely possible I just got lucky with one chain and unlucky with the other.
Anyway, your numbers show when both chains are at their best, BF -> AS -> SS -> AS is superior against one target, so it seems to be a clear winner against AVs.
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If I see numbers I question them. It pays to I think. Never agree on anything unless you can come up with the same answers and/or see all the maths.
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Originally Posted by Nihilii
I stand corrected then, although I didn't remember the BF -> SS -> AS being that bad compared to the other one (and it was before the glad proc was introduced). Good example of why perceptions are bad and math is good.
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Unless it's Arcanaville. Then have blind faith. 
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
If any of you is bored/willing to/have it somewhere - feel free to post some of your AV capable builds (alrdy got nihilli's awesome one
)
Quote:
>.< Bad Werner! You should never blindly trust anyone, even Arcanaville. I swear, it's like no one except for me is willing to challenge her assumptions and data on anything! Peer review dammit! Peer review!
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Originally Posted by Werner
Unless it's Arcanaville. Then have blind faith.
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Quote:
Well, OK. Here's my Katana/Dark. As the sig says, "coming soon". I'm still assembling all the IOs, so I don't yet have any AVs under my belt, but it should be able to handle several at once. Main weakness is defense debuffs. It's not an AV-specific build, though. Too little DPS for it to go quickly, wasted AoE damage, wasted fear, and so on. Just a general-purpose build.|
Originally Posted by dume
If any of you is bored/willing to/have it somewhere - feel free to post some of your AV capable builds (alrdy got nihilli's awesome one
) |
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
I follow my glorious and perfect leader Arcanaville into the new world order. Heretics shall have no place in this world. All hail Arcanaville. (Where is the blank face smiley with the eyes of someone who is dead inside and has no thoughts of their own?)
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Originally Posted by Umbral
>.< Bad Werner! You should never blindly trust anyone, even Arcanaville. I swear, it's like no one except for me is willing to challenge her assumptions and data on anything! Peer review dammit! Peer review!
|
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
Give me a primary that isn't Spines and any secondary, and I'll give you an AV capable build. Hell, I could probably throw together an AV capable Spines build too, but I don't think I'd be able to do it with absolutely every secondary like I can with the primaries.|
Originally Posted by dume
If any of you is bored/willing to/have it somewhere - feel free to post some of your AV capable builds (alrdy got nihilli's awesome one
) |
"Builds by Umbral: Facebeatery you can count on!"
I can't really view those videos of Nilhii. Did he use a certain attack string for his DB/WP?
I found it hard to get a high defense and the BF - AS - SS - AS - Repeat attack string...:/
Now...BF - AV Combo - Repeat I could pull off with higher defense.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I used BF -> AV.
Quick note - ty for the build Werner, but I can't view those thx to my mac 
Would you be so kind to post full forms?
Quote:
Heh, OK. The basic gist is combining soft-capped defenses with good resists, decent hit points, and a fairly rapid fire full heal. DPS isn't so great at 146 (162 with Death Shroud on), but I managed to fit in an AoE (The Lotus Drops) for once, and it has a travel power.|
Originally Posted by dume
Quick note - ty for the build Werner, but I can't view those thx to my mac
Would you be so kind to post full forms? |
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Alexei: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut
- (A) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (3) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (3) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (5) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (5) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 50
- (7) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20
- (A) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50
- (7) Aegis - Resistance/Recharge: Level 50
- (9) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (9) Aegis - Resistance: Level 50
- (11) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance: Level 50
- (11) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All): Level 50
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
- (13) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (13) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (15) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (15) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (17) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50
- (A) Eradication - Damage: Level 30
- (17) Eradication - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 30
- (19) Eradication - Damage/Recharge: Level 30
- (19) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 30
- (21) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 30
- (21) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage: Level 30
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range: Level 50
- (23) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance: Level 50
- (23) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50
- (A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
- (25) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (25) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (27) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (27) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (29) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal): Level 50
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection: Level 30
- (A) Aegis - Resistance: Level 50
- (29) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance: Level 50
- (31) Aegis - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Jumping IO: Level 50
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range: Level 50
- (31) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance: Level 50
- (31) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50
- (33) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (33) Kismet - Accuracy +6%: Level 30
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance: Level 50
- (33) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
- (34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (34) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 50
- (36) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
- (36) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
- (36) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy: Level 50
- (A) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
- (37) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (37) Scirocco's Dervish - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (37) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (39) Scirocco's Dervish - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (A) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (39) HamiO:Golgi Exposure
- (39) Theft of Essence - Chance for +Endurance: Level 30
- (40) Numina's Convalescence - Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (40) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
- (40) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Shield Wall - Defense: Level 50
- (42) Shield Wall - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
- (42) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +3% Res (All): Level 50
- (42) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (43) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (A) HamiO:Endoplasm Exposure
- (43) Nightmare - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50
- (A) Empty
- (A) HamiO:Ribosome Exposure
- (43) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
- (A) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (45) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (45) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (A) HamiO:Enzyme Exposure
- (45) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
- (46) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
- (46) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy: Level 50
- (46) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance: Level 50
- (48) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff: Level 50
- (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 50
- (48) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance: Level 50
- (50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance: Level 50
- (50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50
- (50) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 50
- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
- (A) Celerity - +Stealth: Level 50
- (A) Empty
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
finally gonna pull the trigger on one of my Kat/WP build. It's gonna be my next billioner build.
soft cap melee/lethal with 1 application of DA
F/C/E/N at the cap (45.1)
816% regen with 1 foe on RttC
2248 HP with all the accolades
50% s/l resists
Has all the attacks but SotW
The numbers were just too good for me to pass up...
And now to level a boring combo...
Hi all -
I'm loving my DB/AV scrapper, but I'm wondering how a DB can take down AVs: focus on BF+AV(combo)+1k cuts
or use an insane amount of recharge for a few attacks non chained?
I'm really curious if he can take down AVs with the bf+av+1k cuts (which is up perma if you cycle through it).
I figured out how to slot wp to be AV effective so I should manage there